“If They Are Christians, They Should Run a Church, Not a Bloody Pub”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, July 07, 2008
- Viewed 79
- (18) comments so far
You can read more here…
According to ABCnews: No one could accuse Krista and John Fleming of lacking ambition. When the devout British Christian couple took over the management of a North London pub, the Kings Head, less than a year ago, they decided to serve up a helping of Christianity to their customers. But the locals were none too impressed, especially when the Flemings banned gambling on horse racing, took down the dart board and put up a sign outside the tavern reading "No Swearing."
Pub regulars told the Daily Telegraph that Krista Fleming, 36, would walk around the tables, armed with a Bible, and tell people off for swearing.
John Rudkn, 61, a regular at the Kings Head, said, "Any swearing and you were barred. It was well over the top."
His wife added, "You can't run a pub and not swear. If they are Christians, they should run a church, not a bloody pub."
Comments
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Tony on Mon, July 07, 2008
I clicked on the link but the “rest of the story” was not there. Where’s Paul Harvey when you need him?
Gary Sweeten on Mon, July 07, 2008
Bible verse chosen for the pub: “For God so loved the world that He sent some uptight pub owners to chasten and harrass folk who have not heard the good news in awhile.”
It is too bad that we have become so caustic to others. It only takes a few neurotics to mess up the message. It is no wonder Monty Python made millions with satire of us.
Peter Hamm on Mon, July 07, 2008
I think what we want to see is the Holy Spirit REALLY change lives, not getting people to look like they’ve changed.
This seems a LOT misguided to me.
CS on Mon, July 07, 2008
Truthfully, it’s a bad situation all around.
A pub, typically by intent, is a place where drunkenness and profanity abounds. The owner changed his mind about things, and wanted to create a place where ladies could come and enjoy a glass of wine, without feeling harassed. This would require a changing of the setting, which was long-established, and would naturally come with conflict. Especially in the British Isles. This would naturally be a horrible challenge as-is.
The people who were chosen to do so were Christians. Their faith says that drunkenness and profanity are sins, so they’re already running contrary to the longstanding atmosphere of the pub. If they chose to be “missional” and engaged the people where they were, using a soft-sell approach, they would be enabling them to continue in sin, which can be perceived as sinful in itself. If they chose, as they did, to find ways of prohibiting sinful behavior (excluding their “Bible trivia” type of stuff), it would naturally rub people the wrong way.
Even excluding the secular/religious problems here, it was a messy request. This just added to the mix.
—
CS
Trying to implement standards where the goal is to avoid sin almost runs contrary to the purpose of the pub in the first place.
According to the article, the
GregQualls on Mon, July 07, 2008
I didn’t realize you had posted on this first Todd. I would have given you credit in my post today.
Overall, this should be filled under “please don’t judge Jesus by the actions of these two morons.”
Jesse Phillips on Mon, July 07, 2008
Amen Sweeten!
What made them think this was a good idea? I think this news bit is indicative of the majority of us Christians - we’re legalistic and therefore ineffective at winning people.
Gary Sweeten on Mon, July 07, 2008
In my 15 plus years of ministry in Russia I have needed to spend a lot of time apologizing for people who act like this and even worse. Many of the early groups that went to the Eastern Bloc acted with great insensitivity toward the culture and history of the people and government.
Lord forgive me when I am as callous as they.
D Purdy on Mon, July 07, 2008
The disagreement is in the heart of those in England who would rather either not go to church at all, or just go to church in their liturgical wake-style services, then go back to the pub. You either are a Christian or not. You either follow Christ or not. Regardless of whether you drink. Separating your life into compartments so you can do as you please is not acceptable. This is the disease that has been afflicting the UK worse and worse for years. It’s catching in other nations such as the United States. BTW, I’m not saying by any means that alcoholic beverages are bad, or meeting with your friends after work is bad. It is the manner by which it is done.
Why don’t those who call themselves Christian care about thirty minutes of relaxing with their friends a few times a week after work?
Mike Webb on Wed, July 09, 2008
Hello!
1 Peter 4:3 (NIV) For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
Alcohol is bad, so is a little lust, a little carousing, a little idolatry… etc.
Make a clean break and stay out of the pubs and the shadows.
DA Purdy on Wed, July 09, 2008
Huh? Shadows? Ever wonder why some conservative churches don’t condemn alcohol as they used to? Ever wonder why there is disagreement among theologians about alcohol? There is NO disagreement among HISTORIANS about alcohol. The reason is: there is no commandment in the Word condemning it. There ARE commandments condemning excess….just as there are commandments condemning excess with EVERY good thing. The Word actually RECOMMENDS strong drink in some cases. Besides, that’s a side-bar of this article. Let’s not get distracted.
Something else: Ever wonder why there’s a falling away from the traditional church? BECAUSE IT’S NOT A FELLOWSHIP, not a comradery. Lots and lots of lip service is given to those ideals…..EVERY SUNDAY AND WEDNESDAY. It’s very very rare that church members get together after work just to get together. To laugh together, connect, look into each other’s eyes in a REAL way, not the fake way seen on Sunday morning. It is not the case in America, but in the UK, the local pub is not a place people go to get drunk or ‘’slip around in the shadows.” If you’ve never lived there, ya can’t understand.
Mike Webb on Thu, July 10, 2008
Facts & figures: Alcohol is a factor in…
o 60-70% of homicides
o 75% of stabbings
o 70% of beatings
o 50% of fights and domestic assaults
Source: http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/factsheets/crime.pdf
Considering the bad company that alcohol keeps (see 1 Cor 6:9), should the church and/or the clergy be defending its use? We are not discussing medicinal purposes here.
Ephesians 5:11 (New King James Version) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
Before I was a Christian I frequented pubs for ‘fellowship’ and suds. Thankfully, Christians demonstrated a radically different lifestyle opportunity in Christ. They were loving, not legalistic and largely because of their influence, I left my ‘ale’s’ at that altar and have never looked back. Our world needs that clear witness, if the church does not provide it, who will?
DA Purdy on Thu, July 10, 2008
1. Alcohol is not an entity, or a person.
2. In nearly 99 percent of the stabbings, a knife was used. Men and women shouldn’t own or use knives.
3. In nearly 99 percent of all the illegal shootings, a firearm was used. Men and women shouldn’t own guns or have marksmanship as a hobby.
4. A LARGE percentage of diseases are caused by the excess of gluttony, however, they claim that gluttony does not impair one’s judgement or behaviour (I would disagree) so that’s not a deadly sin even though I could quote you many scriptures condemning it.
5. SIN, disobedience to God, and excess is what causes terrible things to happen on this earth. Sure let’s make all the tools illegal regardless of scripture NOT condemning the tools, but the men who mis-use them.
6. Quoting of scripture and DEductively making it mean something is not as pure as quoting a scripture and INductively reasoning what it DOES say. I can make little scripture verses say anything I want. It’s when I have a hunger for TRUTH that I say, “I’m going to take this scripture for what it says. period. Not what what it might say, not all the things it COULD apply to, etc.
7. A very common statistic is that over 90 percent of the internet is used for p orn. You should remove yourself from the internet as you being a strange bed-fellow with a tool of the Enemy. P ornography (a conclusion of much research) is often the cause of much greater issues, murders, abuse, etc, than alcohol ever dreamed of dealing with. Many well known and respected psychologists see pornography is an addiction that is worse and more far-reaching (in the earth and man’s heart) and addictive than illicit drugs or alcoholism. Sooooo, we should really not be having this forum at all.
Will you please lead the charge to get all Christians off of the internet since it fosters such debauchery? Please? I’m only using your own logic.
DA Purdy on Thu, July 10, 2008
BTW, I’m not defending alcohol, I’m screaming, “look at the REAL cause of ungodliness! Look at and attack the REAL forces of evil out there tearing our families and children apart”
So a father or mother is an alcoholic. You take the bottle away from them. Does that make them seek God and have a passion for raising Godly children? God calls us to righteousness, which means, “right standing with Him.” Not to be a people that runs around nit picking other people and telling them that we consider an ungodly vice.
So we take alcohol out of society, then the murders and abuse will go away? No, rebellion against God will continue with another vice.
DA Purdy on Thu, July 10, 2008
Another ‘’by the way.” Here’s a more accurate version of your post:
“Facts & figures: It is claimed that THE ABUSE OF Alcohol is a factor in…”
Mike Webb on Fri, July 11, 2008
1. Alcohol is not an entity, or a person.
But, it is a “spirit”
2. In nearly 99 percent of the stabbings, a knife was used. Men and women
shouldn’t own or use knives.
Especially those who drink.
3. In nearly 99 percent of all the illegal shootings, a firearm was used.
Men and women shouldn’t own guns or have marksmanship as a hobby.
True, the other 1 percent used slingshots and bow and arrows.
4. A LARGE percentage of diseases are caused by the excess of gluttony,
however, they claim that gluttony does not impair one’s judgement or
behaviour (I would disagree) so that’s not a deadly sin even though I
could quote you many scriptures condemning it.
The air is polluted, but I will continue to breathe.
5. SIN, disobedience to God, and excess is what causes terrible things to
happen on this earth. Sure let’s make all the tools illegal regardless of
scripture NOT condemning the tools, but the men who mis-use them.
I guess that means we should legalize marijuana, cocaine and heroin? (To quote) “BTW, I’m not saying by any means that ‘drugs’ are bad”
6. Quoting of scripture and DEductively making it mean something is not as
pure as quoting a scripture and INductively reasoning what it DOES say. I
can make little scripture verses say anything I want. It’s when I have a
hunger for TRUTH that I say, “I’m going to take this scripture for what
it says. period. Not what what it might say, not all the things it COULD
apply to, etc.
You forgot to mention SEductive reasoning.
7. A very common statistic is that over 90 percent of the internet is used
for p orn. You should remove yourself from the internet as you being a
strange bed-fellow with a tool of the Enemy. P ornography (a conclusion of
much research) is often the cause of much greater issues, murders, abuse,
etc, than alcohol ever dreamed of dealing with. Many well known and
respected psychologists see pornography is an addiction that is worse and
more far-reaching (in the earth and man’s heart) and addictive than
illicit drugs or alcoholism. Sooooo, we should really not be having this
forum at all.
Yes porn is bad. Christians should not be involved with that either.
Will you please lead the charge to get all Christians off of the internet
since it fosters such debauchery? Please? I’m only using your own logic.
If I was using that reason I wouldn’t be here now.
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