Is it OK to Accept an Invitation to Speak at a Church Conference So You Can Evangelize the Audience?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, July 08, 2008
- Viewed 126
- (67) comments so far
Ingrid thinks he shouldn’t speak. So does Ken.
Ray Comfort responded:
“I have never turned down any request to speak because I thought that the church’s doctrine was unbiblical. In fact, they are the invitations I have gladly accepted because I know that false conversions are the fruit of their heretical doctrines. Unsaved people sit in pews in the millions in this country because they have never heard the biblical gospel–and I have to say with Paul, “How will they hear without a preacher?”
But sharing the gospel with these people in their own forum is not enough for some:
“Ray must do more than share his evangelistic message. God has already spoken on these wolves. Can His servant do any less than issue warnings about these lying prophets when he stands in front of thousands of their followers? When Dr. R. C. Sproul and Michael Horton confronted Word of Faith teachers, they were cursed to hell by these men publicly. Ray Comfort has been invited back repeatedly by men like Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Mike Murdock, etc. because he is not warning their followers of their lies.”
And another: “It does give one pause to wonder just how strongly Comfort has warned these Word Faith wolves—if at all—of their attempts to destroy the basic, fundamental truths of Christianity with the false non-gospel of health and prosperity and their “born again Jesus.”
And yet another admonition: “Brother Comfort, I pray that you’ll use this opportunity to expose these false teachers for what they are in accordance with Scripture (Jude 3), or avoid partnering with them “in ministry” so as to be obedient to 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.”
So… Ray is finding himself in quite the turmoil.
Everyone in the discernment camp, while calling for Ray to change his direction, is still sticking by his side. Wonder what would have happened if Ray Comfort would have spoken at Saddleback or NewSpring?
What do you think?
Boy, the discernment sites are all up in a tizzy over one of their poster saints, Ray Comfort, speaking at a Word of Faith conference. It's kind of funny to see Ray Comfort, someone who the discernment folks really respect(ed) on the same platform as Jesse Duplantis and Rod Parsley. Calls have been coming in from all over the blogosphere for Comfort to not speak at this conference. Here are some questions posed by one blog:
1.Should Ray be seen to be associated with such WoF heretics though we have faith in his motivation to preach the Gospel at such conferences?
2.Will such an approach, i.e. preaching the true Gospel in a heretical conference, be effective?
3.Or is this a case where we can bring up the fact that though Jesus dined with sinners, he didn’t partake of their sinful ways but spoke His truth to them?
Comments
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Peter Hamm on Tue, July 08, 2008
Tough one. I respect some of the points that Ken and Ingrid make, but I think that Ray is right to do this. I think it’s like Jesus going to Matthew’s party, or dining in the homes of Pharisees at the very least.
Not all of these WoF preachers peg my heresy-o-meter as much as others, either.
iggy on Tue, July 08, 2008
Todd,
This is just further proof these people will even eat their own and are just messed up.
iggy
jud on Tue, July 08, 2008
If Ray goes without pointing out the error THEN I have a problem with it. The Charismatic stuff is extremely scary. Eastern influence is coming at all flavors of Christendom. Seeker/ Emergents are open eared to contemplative prayer among other “spiritual discliplines “ from the desert fathers and mystics and the WOF/ Charismaniacs are delving into the Kundalini (Hindu serpent spirit) in their “revivals” from Toronto to Lakeland.
Kevin Bussey on Tue, July 08, 2008
Yes he should go. I wouldn’t turn down any opportunity to share Jesus. I’m sure there were places Jesus spoke that the religious leaders of the day didn’t approve of.
Michael on Tue, July 08, 2008
Ingrid and Ken make me sad to be a Christian.
jud on Tue, July 08, 2008
Michael,
The bloggers you mention are your brother and sister in Christ. You just condemned them with that statement. While I don’t agree all of the time with their timing or tact I think they are right on much of the time.
I encourage you to read Romans 12 about the motivational gifts that are distributed in the Body of Christ. One of those is the gift of prophecy, you need to understand what that means. It is referring to those who bring messages of warning to the Church. Needless to say it has all been jettisoned from most church bodies and is ignored by many church leaders. Just as there is a time for exhortation there is a time for warning. You see time and again in the Bible that God faithfully warned his people. Aside from John MacArthur and John Piper you will be hard pressed to find many high profile prophets within the Church today. The Bible says very clearly that they will be despised by their own. Which you demonstrated by your post above.
eric wright on Tue, July 08, 2008
...or at Emergent?
CS on Tue, July 08, 2008
When Rob Bell went before the Dalai Lama, he didn’t speak out against Buddhism or preach the Gospel. I recall that the responses here were a mixed bag. In this case, it appears that Comfort will preach the Gospel, but may not speak out against his fellow speakers, many of whom are heretical. This is what makes it hard to discern.
Looking through the eyes of a potential audience member, I could see them harmonizing some heretical teaching with the true Gospel that Comfort preaches. Therein lies the danger. Unless he says something directly, like, “You cannot speak financial well-being into existence,” which would run contrary to the teaching of some of the WoF folks, he may get blended in.
I pray that God will guide Ray properly, that false teaching does not prevail, and that souls will be saved.
—
CS
iggy on Tue, July 08, 2008
jud,
interestingly many of John MacArthur and most of followers are cessationists…. so this passage really means nothing as the gift of prophecy is not active now according to them.
iggy on Tue, July 08, 2008
sorry, that was not a very well constructed sentence… John MacArthur does not believe tongues, prophecy or the gift of knowledge are for today since we now have the bible.
iggy
Matthew Tilley on Tue, July 08, 2008
I’m not sure how I fall out on this one, to be honest (yes, that’s a bit of a cop out, I understand). That said, I fear that the parallels to Matthew’s party and Jesus “dining with sinners” are unfair.
I say that because sitting down for a conversation or a meal or even attending an event are very different propositions from being a marquee speaker for an event.
For example, I should have no issue visiting with a known murderer (just as example of something obviously wrong) to show Christ’s love, to serve and ultimately share the truth of the Gospel. And I beleive I can do that without concern for any testimony taint. After all, that is exactly following Christ’s example—not just in the parties He may have attended, but in His very incarnation (Phil. 2).
However, accepting an invitation to speak at a pro-murder event would have to give the impression of some level of acceptance, approval or endorsement (however tacit). At that level, I’m not simply expressing concern and love for fallen people, I’m actually taking an active role in “putting on” an event that—apart from my involvement (however justifiable) I would say shouldn’t exist.
Dining with sinners and partying with publicans is one thing; but headlining the International Conference on Cheating Widows and Enslaving the Poor is quite another.
Derek on Tue, July 08, 2008
First of all I think we have to rethink the “discernment” / watch dog / we-don’t-approve-of-any-Christians-who-don’t-believe-like-we-do kind of bloggers assessment of WOF teachers. To call them heretics is a bit much, don’t you think?
Peter is right that they don’t peg out on the heretic-o-meter. It is better to say that they are Christians who have distorted view of the Christian life. And a better response would be correction and not condemnation. If they were preaching a different gospel then I would say anathama, but if they have taken a few biblical concepts and go way too far with them, then they need correction.
I think it is good for Ray to speak at their conference. Any time WOFers open up to Christians outside of the WOF movement it is a good thing. This is one of avenues God can use to bring some correction. One of the reasons WOFers have gotten off track is very often they become inbreed by only listening to other WOF teachers, only reading WOF books, and only allowing WOF teachers in the conferences. Cross-pollination with other Christian traditions is the way of correction for these guys.
Derek
jud on Tue, July 08, 2008
iggy,
I think we need to put the title “prophet” in proper context. The prophetic gift MacArthur most certainly would endorse in the sense of one who has been given, by the Holy Spirit a passion for not only the Word of God but for it’s defense. An ability to sense what is and what is not of God (by the plumb line of divine scripture) and the courage to warn the Body of error. The “white blood cells “ of the body if you would. That is what Ingrid and Ken do. The Body needs all of it’s parts and today we tend to follow the trend of culture in making celebrities in the Church and elevating them above the rest and casting aside, even demonizing the “undesirable” parts.
When I said “prophetic” I’m assuming you meant in the apostate sense that is found in the Charismatic movement?
bishopdave on Tue, July 08, 2008
the only times I’ve seen Ray Comfort (and Kirk Cameron) doing their ministry on TV it was on TBN. So, I seriously doubt he’ll do any correcting as he already is (dare I say it?)...“unequally yoked.”
DanielR on Tue, July 08, 2008
Is it just me or is it odd that Ingrid Schlueter and Ken Silva object to the true Gospel being preached to people who they believe have been taught a false Gospel?
I thought that’s what Ingrid, Ken and their ilk wanted, for the “true” Gospel to be preached? I mean, if these guys are really false prophets don’t their followers need to hear the real Gospel?
Yes, of course you don’t want to be seen as endorsing something or someone you believe to be false, but I would think Ray Comfort could manage to speak and present the Gospel message without endorsing the WOF message. I’ve heard he’s a pretty good speaker.
Chris Elrod wrote on his blog about a “discernment ministry” blogger who wrote him a hateful e-mail after he and his wife lost their child, saying it was God’s punishment upon them for associating with certain Pastors the blogger doesn’t like.
I said yesterday that claiming that someone is not really a Christian because you disagree with part of their theology was wrong. Someone who would write an e-mail like that to someone who has just lost a child does not have Jesus in his/her heart and I might be tempted to question if they were truly a Christian. I would definitely say the person is a twisted individual with a hardened heart who needs to repent.
I think those who’ve decided they are better able to discern what I should believe than I am should spend a little more time looking inward and a little less time looking thru other peoples garbage.
I say if Ray Comfort believes he can go and spread the Gospel without endorsing anything he disagrees with he should go. And he can do it without having to publicly call out anyone as a heretic or apostate.
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