John Piper: Tornado was “gentle but firm warning” to the ELCA on Gays
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, August 24, 2009
- Viewed 34
- (11) comments so far
John Piper the pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, wrote on his blog: "the tornado in Minneapolis was a gentle but firm warning to the ELCA and all of us: Turn from the approval of sin."
The storm struck the cross at Central Lutheran Church. Crews spent Thursday removing it from the steeple. Some bloggers say what happened to the church is a reaction from God to what's going on across the street.
Nearly 2,000 Lutherans from across the country have spent the week at the Convention Center in downtown Minneapolis. They expected a storm this week inside, but didn't see the one getting attention now outside.
QUESTION: Agree or Disagree with Piper? Was the storm a gentle but firm warning to the ELCA? Or was it just a tornado?
Comments
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Gary Chupik on Wed, August 26, 2009
Uuhhhh…. No.
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 26, 2009
I think that this is a stretch… at best…
Not sure how I feel about the new look, yet. white text on black background… hard to read for me…
fishon on Wed, August 26, 2009
I won’t discount the possibility. I seem to remember something about being “...the same yesterday and today and forever.” Then I remember some of the things God has done in the past, and then I try and understand why he would NOT do some of those things [like He did to His rebellious Israel] to Christians. No, I don’t have the courage to say, “No, God doesn’t do those things today,” as I have read some to say, as they mock Piper on different sites.
fishon
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 26, 2009
fishon,
There’s a heck of a lot of horrible things that churches have done that didn’t result in weather catastrophes. I don’t recall the crusades being shut down by the weather…
CS on Wed, August 26, 2009
Was this in God’s permissive will? Absolutely. Was it in His perfect will? It seems a little too coincidental that the tornado happened to touch down at the exact time they were discussing the matter and take the steeple off of the nearby Lutheran church for my taste. I find myself siding with Piper.
—
CS
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 26, 2009
Can of worms officially opened.
Next time a perfectly nice, orthodox, active church doing great Kingdom work burns down from lightning or is destroyed in a hurricane or windstorm I’m going to assume that in actuality they were evil Liberals in secret and God took them out.
Sorry, this statement by Piper goes too far…
Jerry on Wed, August 26, 2009
God’s ways our not our ways of course, so it seems to me that Piper may have put the weather phenomenon into the “I’ know I’m not God, but if I were, here’s what I would do” category. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people all the time, but we will soon lose focus on how WE should be living if we turn our eyes toward how we think God is working in someone else’s life. We need to make sure we don’t have planks in our own eyes before trying to assess how God may or may not be intervening.
fishon on Wed, August 26, 2009
Peter said: There�s a heck of a lot of horrible things that churches have done that didn�t result in weather catastrophes. I don�t recall the crusades being shut down by the weather�
———Ah, Peter, so right. Who knows why God takes the life of folks like Ananias and Sapphira, in the Church age, and doesn’t immediately take the life of a monster child killer? I am thinking that He is sovereign, and His ways and choices are not my ways and choices. And so, I give God the benefit of the doubt. He punishes His way, His timing, and He is always right.
I don’t know if God was directly involved in that incident, but I have just enough fear of my God to not make light of Piper’s thoughts as some have [not saying you are].
fishon
Jim in Indiana on Wed, August 26, 2009
Actually, fishon, the weather played a big role in the defeat of the Crusader armies during the Crusades-fighting in armor in the middle-east isn’t a healthy thing to do.
Who knows if God did give a reminder through weather? The Bible is full of instances of God’s reminders at specific times, even though He appears silent at others. Only time will tell.
fishon on Wed, August 26, 2009
Jim,
My agreement with Peter was with:::: “There�s a heck of a lot of horrible things that churches have done that didn�t result in weather catastrophes.” As far as the weather and the Crusades, I know nothing. Your statement should go to Peter on the the weather issue.
Hey, I am on the side that it may have been God. Reread what I wrote.
fishon
Cliff on Wed, August 26, 2009
Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” (Luke 13:1-5)
Clearly God can and does, in his divine sovereignty, send various forms of judgment in human history. However, Jesus teaches his disciples not to speculate or presume on these issues. If John Piper (someone I greatly respect) was speaking prophetically, then I guess that’s different than simply commenting on an event. But, in those cases where God delivered such a message through a prophet, it was usually spoken of BEFORE it happened. I didn’t hear anyone saying God would show his judgment in this way until after it happened, which tells me we’re just speculating.
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