Mark Driscoll on the Trends in Worship Styles
- Posted on January 30, 2007
- Viewed 1128 times
- (36) comments
“I’ll be happy when we have more than just prom songs to Jesus sung by some effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar offered as mainstream worship music. Right now most worship music is still coming from the top down through such things as Christian radio and record labels. But the trend today in a lot of churches is writing your own music to reflect your culture and community, and I pray this trend of music from the bottom up continues.”
SOURCE: RockWorship.com… read more here.
TAGS: Worship; Worship Music; Mark Driscoll
FOR DISCUSSION: What do you think of Mark’s comments? Agree or disagree? What do you think worship music will look like in most churches (or in your church) in five years?
In a recent magazine interview Mark Driscoll was recently asked: "What trends in church and worship styles do you see? Are they positive or negative?" You might (or might not) be suprised by his response... (Mark ALWAYS has a way with words)...
Comments
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Josh R on Tue, January 30, 2007
Somebody elsewhere in blogshere commented that this quote was :“Harsh, but not inaccurate” After thinking about it, I think that quote describes most of Driscoll’s preaching.
Mar’s Hill puts it’s original music on the web for free. It is kinda weird in my opinion. Maybe just because I am not from Seattle. If I had to describe it, I would say it is “Harsh but not inaccurate” http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Daniel on Tue, January 30, 2007
I swear, I can’t read anything from Driscoll without seeing the words ‘effeminate’, ‘limp-wristed’ or ‘sissy’. Must all that is not crass, rude, and brutish (this is, of course, an overgeneralization in the other direction) be seen as ‘unmanly’? He genderizes everything!
As usual, I generally agree with Driscoll, but his words grate on my ears. Notice, he doesn’t even take a shot at the music (except for saying it’s ‘top-down’), but rather it’s an “effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar” which so offends his sensibilities. You think pastor Mark would have learned by now.
Anyway, I would love to hear powerful rock and hip-hop used as worship music (as well as Latin, Jazz, and Country), but of course, not every kind of song lends itself well to corporate singing… so there are limitations.
I think Mark is correct in saying that that kind of change will have to come from the bottom up, through the congregations which use this or that style.
My two cents,
-Daniel-
Jeff M. Miller on Tue, January 30, 2007
This fired me up. Here’s what I posted on the rockworship.com site:
What a load! I’m sorry, but I’ll be the one to call him out on this one.
“some effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar”
I don’t care if he’s trying to make a point about one or two particular people or not, but he’s made a generalized statement that blanket covers worship leaders like myself. Way to build up the body.
Not saying that he has this viewpoint, but I’m tired of the idea that “manly” is the guy who goes hunting, fixes his own car, watches football, and scratches his crotch. How’s that for a generalization?
I’m sorry, but read in Scripture about the real men of God who weren’t afraid to pour out their heart to the Lord. Stand up and be a leader in the church, in the home. Love your wife and children. Serve, sacrifice. All else is vain, and does not a man make.
jawbone on Tue, January 30, 2007
Obviously when you say something that is over the top you will rankle some people. I would agree with Driscoll with a disclaimer. Guys are different than girls. Most guys like to get their hands dirty (thank God that metrosexual thing didn’t fully catch on). They like to blow things up, they like to compete, they like action. I would like to see more songs talk about victory, conquest, beating up the enemy for God, doing great exploits in HIs name. Just to balance out so much of the touchy feely stuff.
I have many favortie songs and chorus in the touchy feely category, I’m just looking for a little balance so that the gospel will be more appealing to men.
Wendi on Tue, January 30, 2007
So much for Mark’s apology to the group that called him our (and wanted to picket Mar’s Hill) for his comments about Gayle Haggard. Isn’t there something wrong with the spirit of a person when they couldn’t give a rip about how their words are received?
Daniel makes a good point. These are really not comments about worship music, but a criticism of the people producing worship music.
Wendi
Leonard on Tue, January 30, 2007
Wendi, be careful not to retry Mark by connecting his comments to Gayle when he himself said they were not in reference to her. I know you are venting, but the picket was not directly related to Gayle but to a volume of words.
That said I will say two comments. Driscoll spends the currency of influence to stir the pot instead of lead people. This is very frustrating. He is becoming an emergent form of MacArthur.
Secondly, Driscoll is in the metro-sexual capitol of the world. Every time I am in Seattle I see men failing to embrace masculinity and embracing femininity. Much of my experience with the emergent has this as an issue as well. His words come from a context. With that said I wish he would also get a clue as to how resounding gong/clanging symbol he is sounding these days.
JHPW on Tue, January 30, 2007
I agree that contemporary worship music could use songs with a lot more theological diversity and depth to them than much of what is being currently produced. However, that message is lost in Driscoll’s tone and inflammatory language. It’s a shame that someone who by all accounts is so smart and such a gifted teacher could be so lacking in wisdom when it comes to choosing his words. Leonard and Daniel hit the nail on the head.
adude on Tue, January 30, 2007
“Isn’t there something wrong with the spirit of a person when they couldn’t give a rip about how their words are received?”
I wouldn’t go that far. I like the fact that Driscoll could are less what we are saying about his comments on this blog. While he may offend some for his comments, I think the reason most are offended is because he shows that he really doesn’t care about their opinions. What is said is a small part of the issue. He’s apathy towards those who are offended is the offense.
I seem to remember someone else that could give a rip about the popular views on his comments…
Oh yeah, Jesus.
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Mike Ellis on Tue, January 30, 2007
Okay, I admit to not being objective about this quote. But in my opinion, Mark Driscoll and this comment rocks! Although this is just one part of the issue, the style of worship music, worship lyrics, how many worship songs, how worship music is presented, what does the worship singer look like, how does the worship leader hold himself, etc. is one of the many reasons that men are bored stiff in church, why men are not challenged in church and why men are turned off and not coming to church. For churches to bury their head in the sand and say, “If men don’t like the music, then tough crap!” is the wrong answer. If we know that when a man comes to church, the family will follow, why aren’t we making churches a place that men feel welcome. I went to a church on Sunday that has made changes to target men. I not only saw a whole lot of strong men. I also saw a whole lot of happy engaged women who love seeing made get excited and passionate about church.
Mike Ellis
Church For Men Florida
386-295-7739
Peter Hamm on Tue, January 30, 2007
I think Mark needs to season his speech with salt a little more. Saying things in a way that just ticks people off is problematic at best, and perhaps just plain wrong.
Kirk Longhofer on Tue, January 30, 2007
Once again, Mark’s choice of language, get in the way of the point he’s trying to make.
Just yesterday, I read something interesting Leonard Sweet. He points out that you can ask a group of grandparents if they would sacrifice their lives for their grandchildrn… and nearly everyone would say yes. But will they sacrifice their preferred musical style to save their grandkids’ souls?
I think the point goes both ways. Mark may not like it… but for some, the music he crticizes helps them to connect with God. Same with the very traditional.
So Mark, how about just going and doing what God has called YOU to do, and spend a little less time worrying about what other folks are doing, and calling them names when you do.
Dave Kendall on Tue, January 30, 2007
“some effeminate guy” It’s a shame that those three words are distracting some from the message. Instead of debating on what he said, we’re debating about how he said it.
I for one agree with what he was getting at. I’m by no means a South Park fan, but I caught a few minutes of an episode a few weeks ago where they were making fun of Christian music. How essentially if you take “secular” songs and replace “you” or “baby” with Jesus it became a Prase & Worship song. It was funny, because it was true. Many of the songs sang in my church have very little depth, meaning, or theological backing. It kind of frustrates me that we’ve become so complacent with what we say, just because we like the melody or the chorus.
The praise and worship bandwagon is going to crash sooner or later, it’s just a matter of time and a question of what comes after it? Maybe we’ll see a return to true art, instead of art imitating art.
Peter Hamm on Tue, January 30, 2007
Dave,
Yes I agree there’s something behind it, but it’s not worth listening to if it’s condescending, insulting, and crass.
We do need better depth in our songs. Like this little beauty… Thank you, Mr. Crowder, even if you are wearing a thiry-year old warm up jacket and have a funny looking beard… (He uses the word “antonym” in a worship song, how cool is that!)
I am full of earth You are heaven’s worth
I am stained with dirt prone to depravity
You are everything that is bright and clean
the antonym of me. You are divinity
But a certain sign of grace is this:
From the broken earth flowers come
pushing through the dirt.
And you are holy, holy, holy
All heaven cries, “Holy, holy God.
“Oh You are holy, holy, holy
I want to be holy like You are
You are everything that is bright and clean
And You’re covering me with Your majesty
And the truest sign of grace was this:
from wounded hands redemption fell down
liberating man
But the harder I try
the more clearly can I
feel the depth of our fall
and the weight of it allAnd so this might could be
the most impossible thing:
Your grandness in me
making me clean
Glory, hallelujah
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah
So here i am, all of me.
Finally everything.
Wholly, Wholly wholly
I am wholly wholly wholly
I am wholly wholly wholly Yours
I am wholly Yours
I am full of earth and dirt and You
Wendi on Tue, January 30, 2007
Leonard,
Point taken, about not retrying MD and remembering that he later made it clear his comments were not directed at Gayle Haggard. Mainly I brought it up because the uproar led to the threatened picketing and then a meeting with a number of his critics, at which time Mark (as he described it on his blog) apologized for his habit of being offensive and inflammatory. He said that he was going to have someone read his stuff and hold him accountable. He sounded (to me) like the uproar had caused him to reflect realize that he needed to make some significant changes. IMO his comments about worship music indicate that either he was insincere last year, just appeased people to stop the picketing and cool the uproar, or that he didn’t put in place a very good accountability plan. I understand that old habits are hard to break, but if I really want to change a habitual behavior, I’m going to find some people who will be brutally honest, who are outside my inner circle, not biased toward me (not my sister or my husband or my best friend), and fully submit myself to their assessment of my behaviors.
You are very right Leonard, MD is misusing the “influence coins” God has entrusted to him. I recall what the nobleman said to the servant who did not manage well what he was given.
And adude, Jesus certainly didn’t measure his words against popular opinion, but neither did He offend unless there was a clear kingdom purpose. I don’t think calling devoted disciples “effeminate guys with acoustic guitars” has any kingdom value. In fact, I think it has the opposite effect, unnecessary damage to kingdom relationships. These guys aren’t the Pharisees.
Wendi
Leonard on Tue, January 30, 2007
Wendi, thanks for your heart in this matter. My approach to Driscoll has not wounds from the structure of church. In other words I have never been shut out of a ministry or passed over in a ministry because I am male. So I appreciate that his words are more personally inflammatory to many people than they are to me. I am a guy and as a guy who drives trucks and 4X4’s shoots guns and lives sports from fishing to football, works on his own cars does his own remodeling likes to hunt, hike and has been known to go a few days without a shower, Marks words seem more silly than offensive. My wife, an 11 year veteran of full time ministry and most definitely the coolest girl I know would more than likely feel the same way.
We sort of tuned him out a long time ago when it came to his blog, his messages and he lost voice with us. This might be my bad but I don’t need Mark Driscoll to instruct me about women, worship, masculinity or for that matter any thing else that I can think of. There are enough great thinkers and leaders out there that I can learn from without having to wade through a pond of stuff to find the nuggets.
That said I think the church need to get more masculine. I think we have done a disservice to guys with our music and our teaching. I think we have failed to capture the masculine spirit and I have been to churches where the worship leader from a distance was way too feminine for my taste (I love women worship leaders and do not expect them to be masculine) and the music was like prom songs. Marks point is well taken. It would be cool if we could dialog about the point instead of the messenger.
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