Multi-Site Churches: Answering the Critics
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, June 23, 2005
- Viewed 297
- (27) comments so far
Groeschel said the multi-campus approach is today?s big news in the religion world. He said he is aware that the concept is not without its detractors, people who believe senior pastors should be planting more churches with new leaders.
?They ask, ?Why don?t we just build up other leaders and send them out?? They think that the pastor has a big ego and has to be in front of everyone, but I?ve found it?s quite the opposite,? he said.
?These pastors would really rather not draw attention to themselves, but they realize that it?s an effective way of reaching people.?
The Arizona campuses, like the campuses in Oklahoma, will have their own campus pastor, Groeschel said. He said the campus pastors do everything a senior pastor does, just not every week.
?They are very effective leaders.?
Larry Osborne, the Pastor at North Coast Church in Vista, CA (well-known for their use of the video venue format) says the following on this subject:
To teach effectively and powerfully a pastor must know and connect with people. But knowing the pulse of people doesn?t mean knowing the pulse of everyone. We?ve long ago proved that effective and life-changing teaching can be done from a distance. Radio ministries, books and tapes all powerfully carry out the work of the Spirit without the communicator being in direct relationship to the listeners. A message on a video screen is no different.
As far as shepherding a flock, no one who pastors a large church shepherds the flock in a hands-on way. It simply can?t be done. And for those who try, the advice of Jethro to Moses is well taken. Large churches that are healthy long ago learned to depend on small group ministries and a team of pastors and shepherds empowered and equipped to lead an assigned portion of the flock.
An off-site Video Venue (whether across town or across the nation) will always need an on-site pastor to shepherd and lead the flock. An off-site Video Venue is really no different than a church plant, except that the primary leader needs only to wake up thinking about shepherding and leading rather than shepherding, leading and teaching a weekly message.
Finally, Geoff Surratt, the Pastor of Campus Development at Seacoast Church (another well-known user of the multi-site format) says this at his blog. I think he sums it up well:
If we are to truly go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, we can no longer hold onto the comfortable thought of being a church that meets in one location under one roof. We have to cross boundaries into other neighborhoods and cultures. We have to open our doors to other churches that may be more effective at reaching the lost and making disciples than we are. We have to put aside our preconceptions of what a church is, what a pastor is, how the Good News should be delivered. And when we do it will said of us that we have turned the world upside down.
I realize these are a bunch of random thoughts on multi-site, but I hope they will prove helpful to you. What do you think?
This is a follow-up post to yesterday’s story about LifeChurch.tv’s move to form two new satellite campuses in Arizona (LifeChurch.tv is based in Norman, OK). Today, I said we would follow up with some words that Pastor Craig has to say to those who are against the multi-site church concept. (We’ve already heard from some of these people in the comments section of yesterday’s post).
Comments
if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, they will displayed on any website that supports them.
Jim Behrendt on Thu, June 23, 2005
Personally I’m all for trying new methods to reach people with the gospel. Since I have no personal experience with multi-site churches I’m really not prepared to criticize them. But their structure concerns me in that it seems to be one more way to build a church around a personality. What happens when the Senior Pastor at Lifeway Church is gone? The same question could be asked of Saddleback when Rick Warren leaves or Willow Creek when Bill Hybels is done.
The answer, I think is obvious—the churches will decline. That was the result when John Maxwell left and when Swindoll left to go to Dallas Theological Seminary. When a church is too closely identified with the identity of a particular person, I believe that it begins to draw a significant number of people who are there for the pastor and not because of the church. When the pastor leaves, so will those people.
Rev.Dr. Dirk E. Miles on Thu, June 23, 2005
I am just starting my ministry Harmony Christian Ministries! I’m starting a church as a part of my origination! First Harmony Christ Church! (Nondenominational!) My plans call for a main Ministry office and several satellite offices and multiple Church
Blessings to all that read this!
Ricky on Thu, June 23, 2005
[comments deleted by moderator]
Ricky on Thu, June 23, 2005
[comments deleted by moderator]
Todd Rhoades on Thu, June 23, 2005
Moderator’s note:
I deleted a couple of posts by Ricky because he directly attacked individuals. Not cool here. In addition, Ricky’s already had his say on the multi-site movement at our first post in this series. You can go there if you’d like to read his take.
Thanks,
Todd
bernie dehler on Thu, June 23, 2005
If you really want to have a multi-site to reach the lost, why not set it up where the gospel needs to be preached the most— in the Arab countries or in China?
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
Todd Rhoades on Thu, June 23, 2005
In response to Jim’s comments…
Thanks, Jim… you do bring up a good point… but it’s really a question that ALL churches should be asking, large or small. All churches should be looking at transition plans, and quite frankly, some larger churches, from what I understand, don’t have a real good one. But I would encourage you to not automatically think that the Saddleback will decline when Rick Warren leaves, for instance.
[[SIDENOTE: One good example of a transition plan at a major church is First Baptist Orlando. They just hired their replacement senior pastor who will work alongside Jim Henry until his retirement.]]
Actually, my understanding is that Skyline actually has experienced nice growth since John Maxwell’s left. (Phil, who’s on staff at Skyline hangs around here frequently… he can probably speak better of what’s happening there recently). I hear great things about what Jim Garlow is doing there. I’ve also heard that First EFree in Fullteron is doing just fine after Chuck’s leaving (it’s been years ago now)… it’s just that you don’t hear much about their current pastor cause he’s not in the limelight as much.
So I do believe the risk is there, but I don’t draw the same ‘obvious’ conclusion about the outcome. I guess I choose to think positively that God will continue to work in His church, even after the personality is gone. (That, of course, is His perogative.) http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Again, (back to multi-site), while the teaching pastor is the one doing the teaching, most campuses have a specific head-pastor on site who is responsible for everything that happens.
Todd
Todd Rhoades on Thu, June 23, 2005
Bernie asked,
“If you really want to have a multi-site to reach the lost, why not set it up where the gospel needs to be preached the most—in the Arab countries or in China?”
I can think of two reasons just off the top of my head:
1. They don’t speak arabic or chinese.
2. The lost people in Phoenix and Mesa are just as lost as the people in Falujah and Bahgdad.
bernie dehler on Thu, June 23, 2005
Todd says:
“The lost people in Phoenix and Mesa are just as lost as the people in Falujah and Bahgdad.”
Yes, but they also have an abundance of preachers, Christians on radio/tv, etc. in the USA.
Todd says about Christian leaders:
“They don’t speak arabic or chinese.”
1. So what.. why assume ministry is easy?
2. There are arabic and chinese ministries in place to do the job; they just need support (financial, and otherwise). If anyone doesn’t know this, they “simply don’t get out much.”
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
Ricky on Thu, June 23, 2005
Todd:
“I deleted a couple of posts by Ricky because he directly attacked individuals. Not cool here. In addition, Ricky’s already had his say on the multi-site movement at our first post in this series.”
First: Who did I “attack” individually? Are those people here on this blog? In addition, why must you carry their water, Todd? Aren’t they big enough to defend themselves?
Second: I thought the rule was 5 posts for each thread. There are two different threads concerning the multi-site scheme. Am I wrong about the rule?
Todd Rhoades on Thu, June 23, 2005
Ricky, I’ll reply to you in public only to serve as an example of what is and isn’t acceptable here.
In your first post you said “The pride that [a certain person] has is disgusting.” I consider that a personal attack that will not be tolerated here.
In your second post, you responded to an individual’s comments in what I consider a rude manner. (Admittedly, that’s my call).
Some multi-site leaders are a part of this blog; some are not (that I know of)… but again, the rule is: you can disagree; but please respect people. I don’t feel like I need to defend anyone here; but at the same time I won’t pay for the space to have anyone trashed here either.
On the five post rule… Yep, you’re right… five per topic… and you can still use your last two (you’ve used 3 so far) if you’d like to tone done your rhetoric and speak respectfully. If you do that, you’ll be ok. Other than that… it’s up to my discretion.
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Terry Storch on Thu, June 23, 2005
It truly blows me away how so many people are so wheels off (this and the previous post). How on earth can some of your readers Todd be such navel gaisers? Some would rather turn inward towards their holy huddles pick their navels and flip off their communities and tell them to go to Hell. Wheels off!
Go Lifechurch go! Reach people for Christ! If that is wrong, then brotha I don’t want to be right…
Marcus Monroe on Fri, June 24, 2005
Oi, You want to know about Life Church? I live in oklahoma. About twenty minutes, or 17 miles if you prefer, from Life Church. If anyone should know anything about community envolvement, it would be from someone who actually SEEs them in the community. MY Community. Life church has many campuses across the OKC Metro, and other larger cities in OK. They do MANY community projects, and one of the greatest ones I see making a big difference is “The Jesus Booth”. It’s on the corner of the street in an area of “Bricktown” of Downtown OKC. I regularly pass by the Jesus Booth on my way to the coffee shop to get a mocha grande. They hand out free Bibles, talk to people with problem, pray with people, people even dedicate their lives to Christ, right there on that street corner. They are making a difference. They recently rented out a venue downtown and played music. They stood out on the same corner and handed out flyers for the event. I worked the night of the event, so I wasn’t able to go. But let me ask you guys, what are your churches doing in IT’S communities. Or are you blinded by the own planks in your eyes. Yeah, I mean both eyes. I don’t understand the smaller churches who have those one or two people who just disagree with what any larger growing church is doing. But fail to look at their own churches. Their dieing and closing. Their not making a difference. Small churches are not learning what it takes to reach people for Christ anymore. Their quick to judge larger churches as becoming too worldly. Some will even covet what the larger churches are doing. I don’t know if it’s envy or jealousy, but people seem to have a problem reaching the damned souls. This is serious. People are going to go to hell if we don’t save them. So I ask you, why sit in your traditional churches, in your pews, with every ounce of man made theology and church traditionalism stuck in your mind, and not getting out, and GOing to reach the lost. Christ said, GO!, and MAKE! disciples of all nations. Ed Young has made this pretty clear. Not criticize or complain about other churches who are reaching people, but in your opinion are doing it the wrong way. Some seem too quick to JUDGE larger churches for reaching people. We’re all suppose to be reaching people for Christ. How hard is it to worry about your own communities, but out of things you have no idea about, get off your duffs, get out into the world, and show someone the difference Christ has made in you. Forget your philosophy and theology you’ve acquired, go by THE BOOK, and preach it to the nations. This is better than being self centered, fake, and making no difference at all.
FYI: I myself attend a small church, and yes, we do reach people for Christ in our community. I guess if we were doing it in some manner you had no idea about, but were quick to judge us on what you did know, you’d be knocking us down as well.
God Help Them! Amen!
Marcus Monroe on Fri, June 24, 2005
Ok, so I have one more thing to say.
Why should we over look our own mission field? Other countries are sending their missionaries here. We need to reach our own, to send our own.
Rich Viel on Fri, June 24, 2005
Ok, I don’t get it. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to attend a video venue. But then again, I have enjoyed the teaching of a variety of pastors on radio and TV. I just don’t see the point in criticizing the way another person feels called to do ministry. If they are being effective in reaching and teaching people for Christ, then praise the Lord! And I don’t think it is possible for us to judge effectiveness from afar. Marcus can talk about Life Church because he’s there and seen its impact. I can’t because I’m not there.
Also, Jim made some good points to open this session. However, I don’t think it is fair to criticize some of our large church brothers because some are attracted to their personalities. My wife attended 1st E. Free in Fullerton for several years back in the 80’s. She tells me that Chuch Swindoll was very humble and expressed on more than one occasion his discomfort with those who came there just because of him. In a success driven culture, some people are attracted to “successful” pastors. But then maybe they might learn something by sitting under the teaching of these humble leaders.
Page 1 of 2 pages 1 2 >
Post a Comment