OPINION: Take MegaChurches Seriously
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Fri, April 29, 2005
- Viewed 120
"You might have predicted their rise from shifting demographics alone. Mainline denominations are drying up. In rural communities and cities, congregations of fewer than 100 are shutting their doors at a rate of 60 a week. Megachurches, meanwhile, have increased in number by 30 percent in the last four years. Out in the suburbs, Christianity is experiencing the same consumer shifts that occur when Sam's Club or Costco comes to town. Megachurches can have congregations that are black or white, evangelical or not; half belong to no traditional denomination. Scholars call them "postdenominational churches" or parts of the "new apostolic reformation." Their own laity call them "purpose-driven" or "seeker-sensitive" churches. Detractors call them McChurches or Wal-Mart churches. But whatever they are called, they deserve to be taken seriously, if only because they help explain why George W. Bush is still sitting in the Oval Office and how suburban malaise can be transformed into a multitude of organized, values-driven voters. Not by happenstance did Mel Gibson's
The Passion of the Christ play the megachurch circuit before making its theatrical debut. These are the churches that held get-out-the-vote rallies and stressed the importance of politics in the service of religion."
FOR DISCUSSION: Is this a fair representation? (I've already said that I don't feel it is). Is there a correlation between small churches closing and megachurches growing? Does the ?megachurch? have anything to do with who is president? Is the ?megachurch? the reason Mel Gibson?s ?The Passion of the Christ? was a success? Is there a direct relationship showing that ?megachurches? are more politically active than smaller to medium sized churches? If so, and ?megachurches? need to be taken seriously (as Mother Jones suggests), what are the ramifications? I?d be interested in your thoughts!
This comes from an article in the secular magazine Mother Jones. Read this and then let’s discuss? (Note: since this is a secular article, it is very biased in my opinion. There is a great source of accurate demographic information on megachurches available at http://hirr.hartsem.edu.)
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Ellen on Fri, April 29, 2005
A large part of my family are in small churches that are getting smaller - and they are not within a reasonable driving distance of any mega-church. For some small churches, that may be a problem, but not all.
I left a smaller church for a very large one. I left for a variety of reasons and sought out a larger one for the flip side of some of those reasons.
As an unmarried person, a smaller church can be more difficult than a larger one. That is one reason I left.
I think that in any church you can be as plugged or as unplugged as you want to be. I’ve read that in any size church you want to go to, your “circle” will be abtween 12 and 15 people. In a small church, the folks that you really connect with will number between 12 and 15. In a big church, the same.
I know that in a larger youth group, my kids have flourished and that was one of the larger issues for me.
Bill on Fri, April 29, 2005
The question of what the mega-churches have to offer as opposed to the smaller ones seems to me to miss the point. From what I have seen in mega-churches and from what other people have told me, these mega-churches succeed because a person can be part of a group exactly like themselves within the church. You can be a member of the mega-church, yet your personal group within the church is only people like yourself. In the mega-church you can belong and still isolate yourself.
If in Christ we are to break down barriers then the mega-churches that I am aware of are not acting in a Christian fashion. They are erecting barriers, not removing them.
Ellen on Sat, April 30, 2005
For some it is not that they want a specialized group - and it is others putting up the barriers.
Even in the smaller church my small group consisted of “misfits” that outright said that they didn’t feel wanted anywhere else, so this is not a problem that only belongs to large churches.
In the large church I tried a mixed group - and my current small group consists of single women - most of whom say that “I just didn’t feel wanted”.
There’s an interesting article in the Singles Connection of Christianity Today - “The Black Sheep of God’s Family”.
At any rate, if you want truly blended groups, your “misfits” need to be able to feel safe in coming to the pastor when they’re not accepted. I tried for 10 years, through 3 pastors, to break into the “music circle” in the small church and never succeeded. I was married then, so my single status was not the issue. You have to have a *very* small church before you can force people into truly mixed groups - and even then, it’s possible that you won’t have real diversity, because the entire church is the same.
Rich on Sat, April 30, 2005
PJLR brought up some good points. He also wrote “I would like someone to do a simple exit poll on the campuses of the top 20 mega-churches in our nation and ask only one or two questions. Did you transfer here from another church? Did you come to a saving knowledge of Christ through this ministry? I suspect that the percentages would be staggering.”
I suspect that many of us might be surprised by “the percentages.” It seems to me that more people are coming to Christ through these churchs than through small, stable congregations that haven’t grown over the last 20 years. So how about we do the poll across the board from small to large churches (George Barna & Tom Ranier are you listening?)and see where true evangelistic growth is happening.
In many ways, this discussion disgusts me. Remember, all mega-churches were small churches once upon a time. I pastor a church of about 110 and yes there are a couple of mega-churches in my area, along with some large, medium and many small churches. Yes it does hurt when we loose someone to a mega-church, but then we remember that it is not about us, but the Kingdom of Christ.
What bothers me most, though, is this idea that we are somehow in competition with mega-churches. We need to realize that we are not in competition with one another, but with Satan for the souls of the lost. Praise God that Christ is being preached and lost souls are being saved, whatever the size of the church.
John on Sat, April 30, 2005
Mega-churches
I once heard a Pastor say, “which ever way the band wagon is going, go the opposite direction; because God works with the few, not the multitudes.”
I always found a bit of irony in the statement probably because there is always truth mixed in with irony. The few serve the multitudes and you’ll find that even in the “mega-churches”, they MUST break up into smaller groups to truly grow.
I believe there are two simultaneous movements taking place right now…
One movement is moving towards a ‘universal’ view, where unity is the focus and love is the delivery.
While another movement is moving towards strictly The Truth, where even unity and love can be tested.
I think one movement is gaining hundreds and thousands of followers while the other movement is growing strong not in numbers but in knowledge and understanding.
djchuang on Sun, May 01, 2005
megachurches are only large because people make them large; if most people prefer small rural churches, they’d be thriving and still be around; but the reality is, that many (most?) people do respond to typical advertising, marketing, consumeristic impulses, and what megachurches are doing appeals to many people’s human instincts.
While the Mother Jones article does make many generalities and stereotypes, the thing about stereotypes is that there are enough of those churches that fit the description, which lends credence to that stereotype!
People being people, and modern churches being modern churches, many modern churches will make many adjustments to give people what they want.
Mark Steven Zuelke on Sun, May 01, 2005
Mother Jones is a liberal rag.
Their insights are valid enough, but tainted with envy. Those reporters have one mission; to spin a story on megachurches into a political viewpoint from which liberals can look down their noses.
Remember worldviews? This is the other main one. What difference does it make how they view the way we structure our church? Their hope is not in church structure.
Jerry on Sun, May 01, 2005
does Dr. Cho ring a bell?
brian on Sun, May 01, 2005
One thing I like about mega churches is I can hide, there is a bit less chance of retaliation if I happen to tick off one of the leaders. It takes the stress off of one having to watch their back at church. Basically all I have really ever wanted is to be part of a church family, I understand that is rather childish and niaeve of me.
bernie dehler on Mon, May 02, 2005
Josh said:
“Good teachers are going to attract people. It is not their fault, and it shouldn’t be held against them. When you have to hold 8 services to serve your entire congregation, they have little choice but to build a larger facility.”
Totally disagree. If the main “leader” was a church planter, you would never have had eight services. He would have been raising up more leaders and planting churches.
A successfult Pastor has a choice to split or grow, just as a rich business man has a choice to horde or share his wealth. If there’s a megachurch, it’s by careful design and planning.
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
Dee Dee on Mon, May 02, 2005
Brian wrote - “Basically all I have really ever wanted is to be part of a church family, I understand that is rather childish and niaeve of me.”
No Brother Brian. This is not childish nor naive of you. In fact I think it shows that you understand what true church is. This is what most of us want and it’s what we all should expect. This is also what the world is crying out for while we build bigger and bigger churches, write more and more books and come up with more and more marketing schemes to get folks in the door. Everyone in this world is looking for a place to be nurtured and to be loved. Our churches should be the place for this. God sent Jesus because He wanted to be back in relationship with His creation. We are His children, thus part of His family.
If we follow what Brian has said and really build “family”, I believe that God will be faithful to increase us. We must understand that He will increase us in His time and His way but He will be faithful to those who are faithful to Him.
My husband and I lead a small home fellowship group. God is teaching us how to be family. We have seen so many people like Brian and we too ourselves wanted what they had in the book of Acts. How can we get it? Go back to the book, strip our own ideology and start again. We may never be “mega”, in fact I hope we don’t. All I want to hear Him say is “well done”. I pray that you strive for the same.
Be Blessed
http://www.neglectnotthegift.org
gavin on Mon, May 02, 2005
st. benedict would advise that once you reach a certain number that you need to break the group and keep small to better enable the vitality of the ministry. ex. pachomius, a Christian hermit of egypt, was very charismatic and dynamic that he gained disciples and followers. hundreds of thousands of people flocked to him, from all over. the community reached numbers chronicled at 15K and 50K. the community split into small groups or “houses.” problems arised as expected but everything held together as pachomius was leader. when he suddenly died all attempts to name a successor for the entire community failed and eventually led to the demise of the community.
megachurches as i view give a certain person the things they feel they need in a ministerial institution. however, i wonder what it is they give? baskin robbins, fancy looking child care (i say that as an early childhood education, most are just window dressing for masses of kids), powerpoint gospel, etc. whomever calls these people who attend a market are those in many ways. i can acknowledge that people are ministered too and feel a connection to God, but can you honestly say that for the majority percentage of the congregants? or do they even know what a spiritual experience is except at a beatles/u2 concert and this is the closest thing to that? i wonder what happens if people become disinterested in the megachurch because of a lack of relationships or they have gained an depth in the life that is nolonger replenished in a “seeker sensitive” setting? will the megachurch then have to become more market driven to attract folks to pay the equally enormous bills?
the numbers tell me these folks do something right, but i look to sage advice in saying that getting too big will eventually lead to an ultimate failure once that source of perceived inspiration is gone.
Art on Tue, May 03, 2005
Ellen said: “As an unmarried person, a smaller church can be more difficult than a larger one. That is one reason I left.
I know that in a larger youth group, my kids have flourished and that was one of the larger issues for me.”
Please don’t think me harsh, but some concerns (that are realities for small churches and the folks who attend them) with both statements.
(1)“As an unmarried person, a smaller church can be more difficult…”
For whom? You - more difficult in finding a mate? Or, God - more difficult for Him to find you in a smaller church and send the person HE wants for you to you? Interesting…
(2) Your teens flourished more in a larger youth group? How? They could have more fun? More friends? More trips to the amusement park? How?
What effect did your kids leaving the smaller youth group have on it? Did you think about that? Did that group suffer? Was the leader of it discouraged by your teen’s exodus? Also, you have unconciously trained your teens to be consumers and not participants. Maybe they could have learned leadership and servanthood in a smaller setting.
I tell our small church folks that they have the opportunity to be on the ground floor of what God wants to do in our church. Why leave and go have the leftovers of what someone else has already established. No challenge there. No adventure there. No FAITH there.
Josh R on Wed, May 04, 2005
Bernie Writes:
“Totally disagree. If the main “leader” was a church planter, you would never have had eight services. He would have been raising up more leaders and planting churches.”
Like I said in my post he was responding to, the mega-churches in my area are planting churches. They are quite successful at training leaders, and the churches that they have planted are thriving. Planting churches doesn’t reduce their attendance. They have a capacity to serve, and God blesses them with a flock to fully utilize their resources.
It is kinda like tithing… Giving 10% doesn’t make me 10% poorer God’s blessing more than makes up for that 10%. In the same way, these churches that have been faithful in planting find that no matter how much they encourage their members to move to church plants, God always relaces those who left quite quickly.
In one case, the church plant had 400 attendees it’s first week, and attendence at the parent church was up that week as well.
I don’t doubt that there are megachurches with leaders like you are describing. It is just not at all fair to overgeneralize and say that if it is a megacurch, it must be run by an egotistical pastor. Any church that successfully motivates and equips it’s members to participate in the great commission is going to grow.
Acts 2 shows how fast a church can grow. 3000 baptisms in one day. The Gospel is the same then as it is now. I would suggest that churches today that emulate Peter’s success are more often than not working through God’s power, not some leadership principle or marketing stratagy.
Ellen on Wed, May 04, 2005
Art - my husband’s name was Art - and you know, you have some of the same “I know” attutides that really irritated me about him.
Harsh? Just ignorant of my situation, when you just jumped to the totally wrong conclusions, that’s all.
Before I address your points, I’ll say again that I left the old church for a variety of reasons, *SOME* of them had to do with the size. I left an Arminian Church after a lifetime for a Reformed church - that was why I started looking. When choosing a church, size was a secondary issue, but it *was* an issue.
1) I’m not looking for a mate, so you can get rid of that false assumption SOON.
The reality is that single people are most always ASSUMED to be looking for one, thus one of the difficulties.
I had been in that church for 10 years, long enough for people to know me pretty well. A few months after becoming single - after 23 years - I volunteered to learn how to run the sound booth. The man who was teaching me had me step up into the booth in the back of the sanctuary. His wife saw him from the front of the church and made a bee line for us - and put herself in between us. A single person appears to be a threat - and for some reason, a bigger threat in a smaller church.
The other issue - I wanted ministry opportunities, not pity. What I was getting was “you just need to take some time off…” No, what I needed was to work for God.
Socially - as a single - I was never invited to a couple’s home. Not even once.
So, your #1 assumption is way off base.
2) My kids. Again - way off base. The smaller church was attempting to attract more teens with trips to amusement parks, “jump parties”, etc. About a month before we left they had a youth meeting. The first part was a devotional and the second part was recreational. One of the “games” was to see who could eat the grossest food before they vomited into a trash barrel. What was this - barfing for Jesus?
In our new church, my son is going to be leading a small group next year. For the first time his friends from public school are coming to church with him - and staying. He’s talking to them (and me) about God. He’s taking a mentoring role with a 16 year old that I currently have guardianship of (Tom’s word’s - “I used to think that everything was random. But now I know that God’s in control of everything. God brought us to our new church for a reason.”)
My daughter - right before we left the old church, she said, “there’s only one other girl in my grade - and she’s stuck up.”
Now, my daughter is preparing to lauch a newsletter (to be distributed to 200). She’ll be doing book reviews (currently reading “Radical Reformission” by Driscoll), with other columns, including theology, Biblical advice, and Bible trivia.
Over the summer - she’s taking a Greek class.
So your assumption about my kids being consumers and not participants wrong again - they’re not just participants - they’re learning to be LEADERS! Something that is harder in a small group with a paid staff that does everything.
And by the way - as far as the youth leader being discouraged - the pastor of the church was aware my reasons for leaving (regardless of *your* assumptions - a mate and more fun). I already mentioned the denominational change. The other reason - which I hinted at - was that I needed to be someplace where I wasn’t “Art’s wife”. Somewhere I could just be me, without being crammed into the little round hole that was “Art’s wife”.
And your assumption that there are no ground floors in a larger church? wrong again.
The newsletter that my daughter is heading up - brand new. The Alpha group for teens that my son will be leading - brand new.
The singles group that *I* am leading - brand new.
I changed churches. For the first time in my adult life, I was newly single, with 2 teenagers. No faith? Not hardly.
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