Monday Morning Insights

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    Paying Pastors Based on Performance

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    He grinned as he told me that, for example, one of the pastors has a fairly low monthly salary, because he?s new and his particular ministry is average-sized; but if the ministry reaches x-amount on average, his pay will bump to another level, and at xx-amount, to another level, which is a great salary for their area. He said it?s a great system because it builds self-motivation in automatically.

    He waited for my response.

    For reasons I won?t go into, it wasn?t the appropriate time for me to begin vomiting on his church carpet, or pummeling him in front of his church-folk. So I grinned an extremely uncomfortable grin and mumbled something like, ?Well, i don?t know?.?

    Rich Kirkpatrick (along with about everyone else in the universe) disagrees with this compensation method, but does put some thought into some things that may merit increased compensation.  See what you think of his list:

    1) How well does the pastor empower, organize and motivate volunteers for works of service. Are people under his leadership relying on him, or can he give the ministry away and structure things to operate without his ego in the way?

    2) How equipped are those under his teaching and leadership? This is the Ephesian 4 thing. Can the people actually handle life better as a result of sound counsel, advice and modeling from the pastor?

    3) Is the ministry growing under him due to charisma and personality or do these people actually mature in their faith and evidence that by their interest and involvement.

    4) How hard and smart is the pastor working? Is he using "best practices" or is he relying on what he did last year? Is he a learner and willing to do the hard stuff behind the scenes?

    5) How well have the people this pastor has put in leadership around him duplicated his vision? Is there fruit?

    Rick continues:

    I think it is terrible in any profession to not ask qualitative things. It is very important to pay someone for achievements. Pastors should be no less considered. If a sermon is delivered sloppily, a song service falls flat week after week or a youth pastor runs on the hype of his events we each then are not doing our jobs. If compensation is derived from results, so be it--just let those not be simply numbers. After one makes a living wage, then we have freedom to add to that to be sure we are being good stewards and invest in the mission of the church.

    What do you all think?

    Mark Oestreicher nominated this for his "Worst Church Idea of the Month Award"… see what you think… A pastor said to me that he loves to try new things. and the thing he?s trying right now that he thinks is such a good idea? [drum roll, please ? and brace yourself] He?s paying his staff based on how many people, on average, attend the ministries they are in charge of…

    Comments

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    1. KEVIN DARNELL on Mon, October 10, 2005

      DO THE WORDS “BEHOLD I STAND AT THE DOOR AND KNOCK” RING A BELL?  I AM GLAD THAT NOAH, JEREMIAH, OR EVEN JESUS DID NOT WORK FOR THAT GUY.  THAT IS MAN’S ECONOMY, NOT GOD’S.  WHAT CONSTITUTES “AVERAGE MINISTRY”?  ISN’T THERE CELEBRATING IN HEAVEN OVER ONE? GOD GIVES ALL FOR ONE.  I AM SICK OF PASTOR’S AND PERSONNEL COMMITTEES SAYING “WHEN THE MINISTRY GROWS, WE WILL RE-EVALUATE YOUR SALARY AND PAY YOU ACCORDINGLY.”  WHY IS IT THAT THE PERSON YOU ARE HIRING MUST WALK BY FAITH BUT NOTHING IS REQUIRED OF THE ONES DOING THE HIRING? IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT GOD IS CALLING THAT PERSON, PAY THEM ABOVE AND BEYOND.  DID JESUS TELL PETER, “WELL AFTER YOU HAVE FED 3,000 SHEEP, THEN I’LL GIVE YOU THIS CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.”  NO HE SAID “FEED MY SHEEP.”  DO WE GET A FEW SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS WHEN WE ARE SAVED AND THEN GET SOME AS WE PRODUCE RESULTS OR DO WE GET EVERY SPIRITUAL BLESSING ALL AT ONCE?  A MAN OR WOMAN TRULY CALLED AND WORTH THEIR SALT WILL NOT CARE ABOUT THE PAY, THEY MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT BOTTOM LINE IT WON’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF THEY BELIEVE GOD HAS CALLED THEM TO A CERTAIN MINISTRY OR POSITION.  TOO BAD SOME PEOPLE CHOOSE TO TAKE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OF THEM. 

      DO WE NEED STANDARDS?  OF COURSE BUT BASED ON BIBLICAL STANDARDS OF HOLINESS, HUMILITY, OBEDIENCE, AND FAITHFULNESS.  GIVE ME AN ASSOCIATE WITH THESE QUALITIES WHO MAY ONLY HAVE 5 IN A BIBLE STUDY RATHER THAN THE ARROGANT AND PROUD ASSOCIATE WHO HAS HUNDREDS.  PERHAPS THAT CHURCH AND PASTOR WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE IF THEY WERE THE CHURCH IN SMYRNA FACING PERSECUTION RATHER THAN THE CHURCH OF LAODICEA THAT HAS IT ALL FIGURED OUT AND DOESN’T REALLY NEED ANYTHING - INCLUDING JESUS. KNOCK! KNOCK! KNOCK!

       

    2. bernie dehler on Mon, October 10, 2005

      Yes, the guy who suggested it is seriously lost.  Maybe he should make a visit to the mission field, deep in China or India where no one heard the Gospel yet, and tie his pay to the number of souls he saves.  Then he’ll learn that he can’t do anything in the flesh, and that salvation is a miracle.  (Jesus said, without Him we can do nothing… this guy is trying to encourage the flesh with results; results are up to God, not us.)  Thank God for those missionaries who do God’s will without fame or fortune.  They truly know how to die to self (Luke 9:23).

      Yes, I agree with the second part about using metrics to measure the right thing, and figuring out what the right thing is.  But I seen no connection with pay.  That sounds very worldly and commercial.


      ...Bernie


      http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247

       

    3. JCB on Mon, October 10, 2005

      Look this is nuts.  If we were going to be paid for widgets God would have a widget format in the Word.  He doesn’t.  We don’t. And, anyone who thinks we should is widgetless.  Pastors are paid based on one thing and one thing only FAITHFULNESS.  To God, to the Word and to the people they minister to—faithfully.  The fact is the pay on this side is silly; so why even talk about it?  We might all be better served as tent makers!  I’m a bit put off about the consistent business bable that accompanies church board meetings and budget hearings.  Put a price on the 72 year old who just came to the Lord, or the young teen who decided not to kill herself.  Do we get bonuses for those?  What are they worth?  Jonathan Edwards had the right idea at the right time, the American Church needs to hear his message again.  Perhaps, then, we’d all be looking for jobs!!!

    4. Jeff on Mon, October 10, 2005

      I once heard that pastors tend to be looked up to spiritually, looked through emotionally, and looked down on financially.  Difficult but often true.

    5. Peter Hamm on Tue, October 11, 2005

      This is such a hard issue. Once you define and codify the metrics to be used in evaluating performance, who “rates” the pastor? What about the terrible nuisance of church politics? If a particular person has decided that “politically” someone has to go, and they control the evaluation process, what then?


      People have to know what’s expected of them, and they need the guidance from those above them to do it and be it.

      On the other hand, if someone is faithful and works hard and really cares… but stinks at their job… what do you do then?

       

    6. Jade on Tue, October 11, 2005

      This is wrong.  Who would agree to this kind of pay.  I would hate to work under this guy.  Is there anyway to get this guy to talk about this in this blog.  I would like converse with this guy.

    7. Ricky on Tue, October 11, 2005

      Quote:


      “He’s paying his staff based on how many people, on average, attend the ministries they are in charge of.”


      Having served on a staff of a mega-complex where the pastor demanded that quotas be met or you were transferred to demeaning roles or let go, all I can say is that while this may sound bazaar, it happens much more than you may think.


      It’s just another sign of the CEO-minded American “church.”

    8. Ricky on Tue, October 11, 2005

      Quote:


      “Pastors are paid based on one thing and one thing only FAITHFULNESS.”


      Is that Scriptural?


      What about those in the congregation who are the epitome of faithfulness?  Shouldn’t they get a stipend, at least?

    9. Bart on Tue, October 11, 2005

      I would agree that this is not the way to pay a pastor, but let’s get real.  Most churches pay in this way.  If the church is growing in numbers, everyone is happy, and no real issues of conflict, the pastor gets a raise.  When the church is stagnant in numbers growth, people become restless, and the pastor gets no raise (in an attempt to get him to leave) or a small insignificant raise.  It may be wrong but we do it anyway.  With growth comes more responsability and we usually pay more.  Paying more when growth occures is not wrong, but to tie the wage to numbers doesn’t look like the way God intended.

    10. Peter on Fri, October 14, 2005

      In the early Congregational format, the minister was not paid for doing his job, he and his family was supported by the congregation so that he would be available to serve the Lord as the Holy Spirit directed him. This seems to fit in with the Apostle Paul receiving support from some churches, which allowed him to serve the Lord all over the place as the Holy Spirit led him. In my opinion, one of the big problems with this discussion about pay (and most other discussions about pay) is that it distorts the truth which is that if anybody is paying the minister it is God and not the congregation, if the minister is working for anybody it is God and not the congregation.

    11. kd on Fri, October 14, 2005

      What happened to do not bridle the ox that feeds you? What happened to Miriam and Aaron as they mumbled against Moses? God does not see as man sees so who are we to critic someones “performance”? We need to be faithful to what God has called us to do individually and leave the results up to Him. Who would’ve figured that a cook in a kitchen would’ve wrote a Christian classic ie. Brother Lawrence?!

    12. Roy on Mon, November 28, 2005

      If you look at the corporate world in which we live in, most positions are paid by performance with a base salary. Why shouldn’t Pastors be held accountable for stunted growth or explosive growth as well. I come from an highly affluent suburb of Chicago where Pastors are paid over $100G’s a year and feel that the Pastor we currently have would do a much better job of preaching if it were based on performance and delivery not just education. Too often I have seen these Pastors overpaid for what they do.

    13. Derrick on Wed, November 30, 2005

      Please give me a biblical insight as to why pastors should not be paid on performance, after all it says in 1 Timothy 5:17 “let elders that rule well be counted of double honour…”

      I am asking because I am researching our churches Pastoral compensation package

       

    14. Derrick on Wed, November 30, 2005

      In the above it states WELL - ie rule WELL which is a reference to performance.


      Thanks

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