Pet Peeves of a Search Committee
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, November 15, 2005
- Viewed 134
- (85) comments so far
PET PEEVE #1: Applying for a job that you have no experience in.
I receive emails all the time saying something like this: 'I don't have any training; I've never worked in a church; but I want to be a pastor / worship pastor / youth pastor. Everyone wants experience. Everyone wants a degree in ministry. What do I do?'
That's a tough question. I'm not one that says you need to have a seminary degree or even formal training to work in the church. Sometimes formal education can even work against you. However, it is much more difficult to find a job as, say, a worship leader, if you don't have any experience as a worship leader; or a pastor, if you've never carried out some of the responsibilities of a pastor.
My advice is usually this... try and get as much unpaid experience in your area of expertise as you can before you expect to land a paying gig.
And from a search committee standpoint; don't apply to every job that's out there. If the job calls for 5 years experience; don't apply if you only have 3. If the job description calls for a keyboard player, and you play the flute; you need not apply. To be honest, you're just wasting everyone's time (including your own).
PET PEEVE #2: Don't Control the Conversation
While it's important to be aggressive in your job search; search committees don't like it when you're too aggressive/assertive. You can easily turn members of a committee off if you criticize the way they are conducting their search; if you try to set the time table; or if act like a know it all. It's a fine line, but don't cross it. You won't get the job.
PET PEEVE #3: Don't Say Money Isn't a Big Deal if Money is a Big Deal
I hear quite often that candidates will come into an interview saying things like "money is not important" or "I trust God to provide for my family" only to later turn down a position because of pay alone. From my input with search committees, they would much rather have you say your need or expected salary upfront rather than turn down a job position based only on the salary. Determine what kind of salary you need/desire; and talk about that early on in the interview process.
PET PEEVE #4: Making Your Resume Make You Sound Like You're The Best Thing Since Sliced Bread
Let's face it, resumes are designed to highlight your strengths and abilities... but some applicants take it a step farther into the 'ego zone'. Re-read your resume. If it makes you sound like you are a god in your area of ministry; you might want to tone it down a little. Have a friend or colleague read your resume and ask them if it is a fair and accurate reading of your abilities. If your resume comes across as haughty or egotistic, it will usually land quickly in the trash can.
PET PEEVE #5: Your Job History Does Matter. Be honest about it.
Most search committees will check your past churches for references. This will disqualify a good many applicants if you paint a healthy church ministry past on your resume; and one phone call to a past church tells a different story. If you were fired from a position; state that in your resume. If there were problems, state what the problems were and what you did to correct them. Be honest. Coverups will lose you the job.
OK... well... there are just 5 search committee pet peeves that I hear quite a bit. What are some of yours? Maybe in a week or two, we'll turn the tables and talk about some employee pet peeves when it comes to the job search. I'm sure both sides will make for an interesting discussion here.
Have a great week!
Todd
We all have pet peeves; but when it comes to searching for your next ministry job, the last thing you want to do is tick off the search committee. That got me thinking… what are the things that church job applicants do that really hurt their chances to getting their next job? Here is a short list that I came up with… I’d like your input as well… Here are some pet peeves that I hear about often…
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Jim Power on Tue, November 15, 2005
I really appreciated hearing the search committee pet peeves and think doing the other side is a great idea. As a job searcher, one of my “peeves” is being asked to provide a resume and then being asked for the same information in an application. Ministry applications are long enough without asking folks to regurgitate their resume. Thanks, Jim.
Lori on Tue, November 15, 2005
I agree with these pet peeves having been on search committees. However, now as a worship leader I see the other side. My pet peeve? Submitting my resume to a job that says “no seminary degree needed” and then asked by the committee why I don’t have one, if I’m planning to get one and that they prefer one. Even though I have tons of worship experience and years of technical music training, they focus on the one thing they said wasn’t need. That is unfair to those of us who actually apply to a job description that we do fit.
Michael Rew on Tue, November 15, 2005
The best thing since sliced bread? Have you met the candidates who think they are the best thing since leavened bread?
Bob on Tue, November 15, 2005
My concern? Lack of timely communication with the candidate. Monthly updates should be the minimum. If you’re not interested then tell the candidate, but don’t string him on for months with no info.
Tom Heaton on Tue, November 15, 2005
Hey, Todd - how about approaching it from the other side, too? Here are a few pet peeves of mine ABOUT search committees:
1. Not keeping a promise to contact the job applicant. I have had this happen more than once: a committee will send me a letter saying they’ve received my resume and will be in touch to schedule interviews and then never call, e-mail or write. Only when I followed up did I find that the committee stopped interviewing after finding the ‘right’ candidate but didn’t bother to let the others know of their decision.
2. The chair of the search committee is too busy to devote his/her time and effort. Hey, I know how it is: we are all very busy and I’m sure a search committee chair has a lot to do. I don’t think the church, committee or applicants are fairly served when the chair is too busy to review resumes or be responsible for contacting applicants (see #1).
3. Committees that don’t tell you what they’re really looking for. As bad as it is to be misleading on a resume, is it not just as bad to be vague in a job description? If your church needs a choir director that must also be the organist, state it plainly. Those of us directors who can’t play an organ to save our lives will understand and look elsewhere. If you want your music minister to also handle youth lock-ins, say it upfront - not in the interview. Committees don’t like interview suprises, generally, and it works the same the other way around.
Look, the search committee has a tough job. But it isn’t all about them, okay?
Tom
Evangelist Jeff on Tue, November 15, 2005
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! These are the stepping stones I have been looking for. I am very, very elated to know some of their pet peeves during interviews for leadership roles within the church. Now I know what to do, what to say, what not to do, and to shut up!!! Because I am overly agressive and very assertive… They call me the King of Gab. Enough said.. Thank you.
Bradley on Tue, November 15, 2005
It would also be great for churches to inform candidates when another applicant has been hired. Its nice to know when your out of the running.
Evangelist Jeff on Tue, November 15, 2005
I don’t want you all to take this the wrong way.. I say this only to be joking… But here were I live most of the canidates who get hired to pastor churches here you sometimes wonder who conduct the search for the search committee… I am a Baptist… Not a true Baptist mind you, because I despise “business meetings and I do not like the word committee.” I believe in the leading of the Holy Spirit as the apostle’s did, I believe in speaking in tongues, laying on of the hands, etc, etc… Now stick with me on this… But anyway, most of the ones I have seen hired in to pastor churches are cold, cynical, heartless, unkind, unloving, and don’t care. You will also find that some of the pastor’s who are here left their wives, divorced them, sued them, married the woman the committed adultery with. My wife and grandmother are my biggest supporters. I told my grandmother one day I thought about changing my resume around that stated “I have long hair, smoke cigarettes, chew tobacco, drink beer on weekends, cheat on my wife, go to the clubs, and beat the kids, stomp on cats and kick stray dogs… I told them I would be hired on the spot… Remember I am ONLY joking around about this…I felt like being a little facetious today…
Ed Campbell on Tue, November 15, 2005
Well, I will tell you what my pet peeve is… Referring to a ministry position as a “job” instead of “calling,” and using the term “hired” instead of “called.” There is a big difference.
Chad Floyd on Tue, November 15, 2005
Thanks, Buddy.
I’ve got a pet peeve towards both search committee and interviewing pastors.
1) Applicants aren’t the only ones who act like they are the best thing since sliced bread. I’ve run into it several times that Pastors and committees will never list any current weaknesses in the church, not even after you are hired. It is as though there are (perhaps several) skeletons in the closet and you are going to have to find them on your own, No one will admit them. If your average attendees are all over 85, state it upfront. I am much more willing to work with employers who are honest with me. Every church has issues, we’re not stupid.
2) It has been listed twice already but i must restate it: Let Candidates know when they are no longer in the running. ESPECIALLY when you’ve told them you would get back with them within a time period. This is so much healthier for every one involved.
REVOnate on Tue, November 15, 2005
I am a 26 yo with 8 years of experience serving in ministry. My father and my father’s father are both pastors. I strongly feel that the manner in which most churches approach their “candidating process” is completely ineffective. A few of my pet peeves:
1. Like others have said, NO COMMUNICATION! When you string along a candidate, or assume that they’ll miraculously sense you’re no longer interested, it shows zero respect for the candidate.
2. Little to no involvement from the staff in the search process. Most of the time, you spend extensive time talking to the committee-who may be made up of some people you will rarely serve alongside, and very little time talking to and getting to know the staff you’ll be serving alongside EVERY DAY!
3. Committees with no clear idea of what they are looking for in a position. So, instead of finding someone who fits with the current staff, leadership and ministry vision/philosophy, they look for the most impressive candidate-regardless of whether or not the impressive candidate will actually fit in the church.
4. Committees that approach candidates with a “dance monkey, dance” or “what can you do for me?” mentality. The process should allow the committee to learn about the candidate, but it should also allow for the candidate to learn about the church. Serving on staff at a church is a lot like a marriage, so the search process needs to be like a courtship. Who would ever marry someone who had the attitude “I am what I am, but I want to know if you’re good enough for me.”
5. Last, just as it is important for candidates to be as open and honest as possible with prospective churches, the committees needs to be equally upfront. PLEASE disclose any negative preceding circumstances. If the previous minister was forced to resign, or had moral issues, I as the candidate need to know that. And please DO NOT promise ANYTHING if you are not certain you can provide it. Don’t present a compensation package during the interview process and then change it after your new minister has moved in.
The relationship between any minister and the church they serve in is a delicate and vital one. When it is strong, beautiful things happen. However, how can we be surprised at the high attrition rate among ministers, young and old, if the tool we use to make the first steps in the relationship is broken. If we don’t learn to use better means, we’re setting ourselves up for failure.
Megs on Tue, November 15, 2005
I understand your comment about experience, however there is a big problem with telling people to only apply for jobs where they meet the minimum number of years of experience. I just graduated from college with a degree in ministry, and I did volunteer with a youth group in college. However, I also had another degree in theatre which kept me away from the youth group for my sophomore and junior years of college (because I had rehearsals for theatre). So, when churches asked me for my experience, often times I did not have enough even though I knew about the job (youth pastor) that I was applying for. The even crazier thing was that almost every single application I looked at asked for 3-5 years experience, when looking for your first job, this is pretty much impossible to have experience when no one will hire you. So, I sent in resumes to churches that asked for experience and was interviewed by a few. Eventually I was hired for a position working with youth and theatre. So…basically if you are saying not to apply for jobs that require a certain number of years of experience, you won’t have many new people in ministry.
John Mulholland on Tue, November 15, 2005
To beat a horse until it is rotting….
I recently received commnication from a church that they were interested in talking to FOUR MONTHS after I had applied. I heard nothing in the meantime, and was called to another church during that timeframe.
As someone who has interviewed for almost a year, and am now in my first full time ministry, I have been completely disappointed at the way SOME churches handle their “hiring” process. Here is my list of pet-peeves
1. The 22-page questionnaire as a means to weed out some. I only had one church respond to my answers. From the others I got an ambiguous letter letting me know that “due to much prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit…blah, blah, blah.” I finally stopped filling these out and saw them for what they were, an opportunity to separate the Jesus cheerleaders from ones who desire relevance and authenticity.
2. Saying that you are an elder-driven church, only to get to the interview and learn that you will be reporting to the senior minister for direction, and all things go through him.
3. To be told that they can only afford “x” to support a family of five. The phrase “you get what you pay for” comes to mind. I am not in the ministry for a nice 401 (k), a nice 8 bedroom house and a Lexus. But I do think it is reasonable to not qualify for food stamps, or to have to struggle every single month because we’d rather focus on a new parking lot, or someone’s new boat of four-wheeler is more important.
4. If you say you will keep someone in the loop as far as the status of their application, for Pete’s sake, do do!!
5. See 4 (above).
6. How hard is it to press “reply” in your email to simply acknowledge the fact that someone has sent you a resume? There were several churches that I had applied to and never heard a single word. Makes me wonder how their churches operate, or how they reach out to others.
7. If you are looking for a person who has experience in a church of “x” number, say so!!
Over and out!
Kevin Essett on Tue, November 15, 2005
I’m posting from the other side. Here are a few of my pet peeves concerning search committees.
1. “Oh… We have about 300 members” That doesn’t speak very highly of your integrity if I arrive to see less than 100. Did you not think that the candidate would find out once they arrived?
2. “We’re a contemporary minded church” But they still want to sing the “The Royal Telephone” (that’s a real song) and every now and then you can throw in a new song like, “Amazing Grace”.
3. Oh and please… don’t offer more than what the church can afford. If you have to take a second offering to meet the budget for the worship leader - He/she probably shouldn’t be there in the first place. Learn to live within your means. You can’t have a professional worship leader on an amatuer salary. I guess it can be said, even in ministry, you get what you pay for. Quality and excellence in ministry does come at a cost.
My thing is this - be true to who you are and you’ll find the right person to fit your application.
Dan Moore on Tue, November 15, 2005
Todd, Good insight. I have been on two search committees when younger. I remember one fellow who called me. He said he was called to our church, gave me a verbal resume over the phone, and expected to be hired on the spot. I asked him to mail a copy of his resume with references (we did not use an application form). He refused. He insisted I inform the search committee of his qualifications. I did. The other team members asked, “Well, is he going to send a resume?” I said, “No. He insists God is calling him.” One member said, “If he can’t follow simple instructions and submit in follow through then God is not calling him here!” I called the man back and informed him that he mis-heard God.
I noted some complained about resumes and applications. Guess what! The typical job I applied for after I retired from the Army demanded both. It is the way it is. God can call inspite of man’s administrivia.
When I was seeking a church, I dealt with several committees. I had no paid experience but I did truthfully list what I had accomplished in my resume. I also was careful in noting the transferrable skills from my secular jobs to the ministry. As a soldier I was an instructor (teaching is transferrable), was an recruiter (marketing skills relate to evangelism), was a supervisor (caring, counseling, delegated, discipline, setting example - all transferrable), managed a $5 million budget at a savings (stewardship), wrote a variety of documents (writing), held a security clearance (able to keep a confidence), and was accountable to my seniors and soldiers. I also included the unpaid ministries I accomplished in my resume: Sunday School teacher, treasurer, usher, deacon, and member of various committees.
Communication with the search team is vital. I believe that one should seek a church much like courting a potential wife. Get as much information as you can about the church in advance. Most of the problems I hear between pastors and churches could be avoided if some advance work is done by pastors as well.
Finances are important by the way. I’ve had committees approach me because I’m retired from the Army. They assume they can give me a lower “affordable” wage because of my “rich” retirement. One even asked how desperate I was for a church after offering me $7,000 a year - I politely informed him that desperation is never a reason to accept a call to a church.
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