Rick Warren Clarifies His Take on Gay Marriage
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Wed, April 08, 2009
- Viewed 122
- (48) comments so far
Here’s part of the transcript:
“You know Larry, there was a story within a story that never got told in the first place. I am not an anti-gay or anti-marriage activist. Never have been, never will be. During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement. Never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going.
“The week before the vote, somebody in my church said, ‘Pastor Rick, what do you think about this?’ And I sent a note to my own members that said, ‘I actually believe that marriage really should be defined - that that definition should be saved between a man and a woman.’ And then all of a suddenly out of it they made me, you know something that I really wasn’t. …
“I wrote to all my gay friends, the leaders that I knew and actually apologized to them. That never got out. There were some things said - everybody should have 10% grace when they say public statements and I was asked a question that made it sound like I equated gay marriage with pedophilia or incest which I absolutely do not believe. And I actually announced that. All of the criticism came from people that didn’t know me. Not a single criticism came from any gay leader that knows me and knows that for years we’ve been working together on AIDS issues.”
Any thoughts?
Comments
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fishon on Wed, April 08, 2009
Kim,
You sound a little judgment towards some of us.
fishon
Kim on Wed, April 08, 2009
fishon - not an effective argument. Sorry, not biting.
Russell Mckinney on Wed, April 08, 2009
Kim,
If pastors such as Rick Warren shy away from speaking the truth boldly in love and lifting up the authority of the Bible, why would homosexuals see the need for the salvation you promote? Isn’t that salvation just another part of a book that, in the end, carries no real weight anyway? We aren’t going to have any success in introducing people to Jesus until they first see their need for him. If there is no sin, no moral absolutes, no written authority, then there’s no need for the salvation offered in Jesus. People must be brought to an understanding of their sinfulness before they can geuninely see their need for a Savior. That’s not going to happen if preachers refuse, for whatever reason, to speak plain truth plainly. Also, I think you’re wrong about why homosexuals don’t go anywhere near the church. Sure, there are exceptions, but generally speaking they don’t go near the church for the same reason the alcoholic, the wife-beater, the child abuser, or the drug addict doesn’t: They just don’t want to hear that God wants them to repent.
Kim on Wed, April 08, 2009
Russell - I agree with most everything you’ve written, and I also agree that there are certainly more reasons why homosexuals, or any sinners for that matter, are afraid to enter a church. Where we disagree is with Warren himself, meaning that I’m not ready to say that he’s not speaking the truth boldly. He appears to have a sharp awareness that there is a time and a place for everything, just as Jesus did. I’ve met the man, attended a conference at Saddleback, heard him preach, I can tell you he speaks the Truth with no apologies whatsoever. I’m just not ready to throw him to the wolves. God knows what’s going on in his heart, we don’t…and He (God) certainly doesn’t need us to throw rocks at the guy. Warren is not the Messiah, but he has a tremendous amount of influence. He may not go about things the way we think he should - but I honestly don’t believe that’s for us to decide. He’s a small cog in God’s Kingdom works, and I don’t see that there’s anything he’s said or done thusfar that would cause an unbeliever to say “Rick Warren doesn’t believe Jesus is the only way to salvation.”
Again, this is all just my own personal opinion. Just a small glimpse into my heart - it saddens and sickens me when Christians attack one another, because I can almost see the delight the enemy takes in it.
fishon on Wed, April 08, 2009
Ah Kim,
You sound a little paranoid with that “not biting” thing.
The only thing I try to get to bit are Steelhead, and they don’t show up until June.
Just an observation about judging—nothing more. Besides, if I was fishing and you bite, I would lose you cause my line needs changing and you would break off.
fishon [Oh Lord, give me a big catch this summer—and keep the Rattlesnakes away].
Dave Z on Wed, April 08, 2009
With all this talk of pointing out sin, I find myself thinking about who convicts of sin? Preachers or the Holy Spirit?
Scriptural support please.
jud on Thu, April 09, 2009
Another people pleasing pastor trying to be PC because being relational and attractional is what wins souls (sarcasm on the last half).
The correct answer would be more like ...
“My opinion on Same-Sex marriage and homosexuality doesn’t matter one red cent. What does God’s Word say? It calls homosexuality an abomination. What is my job? To lead people to repentance and into righteousness. I will stand against what people are attempting to do through the courts not only because I understand this lifestyle will destroy individuals and weaken communities but it will gnaw at the very fabric of our Nation (just like alcoholism, adultery, glutteny, etc) My role is not to make you like me or consider me America’s pastor. My duty is to love people… and to love people is to tell them the truth and warn them of the coming wrath. We are sinners separated from a Holy God. Believe, Repent and be Baptized, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.”
Now, thats not gonna sell you books, magazines or get you on Oprah’s couch… but is THAT what we are called to do?
Jon Zampatti on Thu, April 09, 2009
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
—Rom 10:14
It goes without saying to refer to passages such as those of John 16. We do know that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin—and not to minimize His work through that of preachers, but God does work through vessels. And to think the world “knows” Christ or Christianity is a statement thrown in the wind. America knows religion; it’s people know religion. It can be similarly related to India and its Muslim religion. To a great whole, it is merely part of the culture. Except the drastic notion is, in America, it’s not the one true Christ being taught, but a counterfeit christ. And not just a counterfeit christ, but hundreds, if not thousands of christs. The unregenerate world creates for themselves a god in their own image to fit their own desires—thinking they know Christ, but are left to their own deceit.
It is the Holy Spirit’s work in convicting and bringing people to Christ, yes. But when you have a person who is considered a man of God, speaks on behalf of God, is held accountable to God and His Word, that takes on a whole new precedence. A man of God is not a person whole pleases people as Paul said in 1 Corinthians. A man of God is one whose first priority and only priority is honoring Christ. I don’t know enough about this Rick Warren fellow to think he is one way or the other, though I do know a collection of questionable movements he is in. I will say this though: one who waters down the message and is more concerned about being sensitive to the “needs” of others does not honor Christ.
And people who “straddle the fence,” as some prior posts have mentioned, do not do justice to Christ by showing the world that they are not much different from even the spiritual leaders of churches. They just add another side to Jesus that is easier to swallow and faster to chew—Add another Jesus to the other side of the board. You talk about delivering a message? Methods may change, as so does our culture, the Message stays the same.
We are not called to “make the world a better place”. We’re called to honor and be faithful to Christ and His Word.
Kim on Thu, April 09, 2009
We’re called to
honor and be faithful to Christ and His Word.
Exactly! There was nothing that Rick said in that interview that was not faithful to Christ’s Word. There are, however, quite a few things I can point out in our collective discussions on this topic that are not, things like specks, planks, grace, etc come to mind.
I’m not a bible scholar, but I have a pretty good working knowledge of what it means to be faithful to the Word of God, and believe me, I gum it up more often than I’d like. Please, someone, show me where Warren is scripturally off, but spare me the “well, it’s what he DIDN’T say”. Let’s not tear a fellow brother in Christ down because of things we think they ought to say and do. They are serving Christ, not us.
J on Thu, April 09, 2009
Good questions Kim. I hear what you’re asking…
Ricky on Thu, April 09, 2009
Kim said:
“Some of you here, who are already saved and bible savvy enough to know if he’s theologically correct, would have been satisfied with his performance had he done that. But what might it have cost in souls?”
What pablum!
You equate “souls” with attendees to buildings where they hear watered-down versions of the gospel to the point where it no longer IS the gospel.
Even when they brought the adulterous woman to Jesus, He acknowledged that what she did was sin in warning her. So why couldn’t have Warren said that homosexuality is sin? It’s not whether he states a fact but in how or what demeanor he states the fact.
Kim, Jesus is the Way, THE TRUTH and the Life and we should always speak and stand by the truth.
Stop awarding yourself salvation notches just because people come and sit in a pew.
Kim on Thu, April 09, 2009
You equate “souls” with attendees to buildings where they hear watered-down versions of the gospel to the point where it no longer IS the gospel.
I do? Where did I say that?
Stop awarding yourself salvation notches just because people come and sit in a pew.
I do this? Really? What did I write that gave you that impression?
Interesting…
Russell Mckinney on Thu, April 09, 2009
Okay, there’s been some asking for scripture for criticizing what Rick Warren said on Larry King. Let me give some. (By the way, I’m typing in a calm, rational, conversational tone and I didn’t sit up all night looking these up):
1: John 7:24: Jesus actually commands us to “judge” with righteous judgment.
2: 1 Cor. 5:3: Paul “judged” a sinful situation in Corinth (the Warren situation is not even close to being on par with this, but the point is that Paul didn’t mind calling behavior wrong if the shoe fit).
3: 1 John 4:1: John commands us to “test” the spirits because the world is filled with false prophets (NO, I DON’T think that Rick Warren is a false prophet. But, as a Christian, I should test words).
4. 1 Cor. 14:29-32: In early church meetings, so-called “words from God” had to be “judged.”
5. Rev. 2:2: Jesus praised the church of Ephesus for “testing” those who claimed to be apostles.
6. 2 Thess. 5:21: Paul commands us to “test all things” and “hold fast” only what is “good.”
7. Acts 17:11: The Christians of Berea used scripture to examine everything Paul and Silas said before they believed them.
8. Galatians 2:11: Paul publicly opposed Peter because of Peter’s wrong behavior.
9. John 3:10: Jesus came down harder on Nicodemus because Nicodemus was a well-known, national teacher in Israel.
10. James 5:19-20: These verses speak of one of the “brethren” (Christians) erring from the truth and another Christian who “turns him back.”
11. 2 Thess. 3:6: Paul says we should “withdraw” from every Christian brother who walks “disorderly.” (I’m NOT putting Warren in this category. I’m just showing that it is possible for even Christians to get off track in what they teach.)
12. James 3:1: This verse clearly shows us that Christian teachers must be held to a high level of accountability (let alone those teachers who have the ear of a nation).
Now, one last thing, the Matthew 7:1-5 about “specks” and “planks” is a word about HYPOCRITICAL judging. A speck and a plank are both pieces of wood. One is just smaller than the other. If I criticize Rick Warren for going on Larry King and not sounding strong enough on gay marriage, but then I never preach against homosexuality in my own church, then I’m in violation of the passage.
Kim on Thu, April 09, 2009
For the record, I didn’t ask for scripture supporting the “right to judge.” I don’t think anyone else did, either.
I asked what did Warren say or do that was not faithful to the Word of God?
J on Thu, April 09, 2009
“Even when they brought the adulterous woman to Jesus, He acknowledged that what she did was sin in warning her.”
Very true, Jesus warned her one-on-one. Publically he knew that the Pharasees needed to understand something else… They already knew it was sin. From what I see, Jesus didn’t get up on a stump or mountain top and blast her sin, he reached down, looked her in the eyes and engaged her.
I don’t really know if anyone is going to doubt whether homosexual activity is sinful (Biblically speaking) just because Rick Warren didn’t take that opportunity to remind them. I personally don’t need him to tell me it is… I kinda think that the gay community is waiting to hear what we have to say after “homosexual activity is sin” is stated…
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