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    Rick Warren Talks About Conflicts and Divisions from “Purpose Driven”

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    Here’s part of the article:

    “You know, I wouldn’t intentionally want to cause pain to any person or to anyone,” Warren said. “Am I willing to put up with pain so the people [that] Jesus Christ died for can come to know him? Absolutely.”

    Warren said that if some churches may suffer as a result of applying some of those principles, then “that’s the price.”

    “Every church has to make the decision. … Is it going to live for itself, or is it going to live for the world that Jesus died for?”

    When asked if he thinks that some of these splits are actually because Christians themselves are indulgent and refusing to change, Warren said, “Oh, without a doubt.”

    And when asked if he blames them, he replied, “I do blame them.”

    Read the whole article here...

    Rick Warren has been accused of splitting churches with his Purpose Driven philosophy. He's even been cited as a reason for major church conflicts in huge churches like Bellevue Baptist and First Baptist Daytona Beach. Now Warren is responding to those critics in a new interview with ABC News. But it's not something that many of his detractors really want to hear, or are likely to accept...

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    1. Wendi on Thu, March 08, 2007

      No, the detractors are not going to accept one iota of RW’s responses during this interview.  Martin Bashir asks the question about whether PD principles change historic Christian doctrines, and RW pretty much sums these complaints up as an issue of inward focus and a lack of concern for being relevant to the lost culture around us.


      Here is a quote from one of the churches that had a “PD schism”:


      “Their music took on a much more contemporary effect — pop music,” said Owings (an outgoing pastor of a dying church that experienced new growth after applying PD principles.) “[new PD pastor] began to use, basically, the ‘Saddleback Valley approach’ to church growth and so forth. It was during that time that we began to get uncomfortable with the music. The emphasis seemed to be more on younger people and a new generation, and we just felt like we did not fit in.”


      Here’s how I see those schisms:


      • Leadership at a plateaued and inward focused church decides to apply some of the PD principles to their context


      • The PD detractors in the congregation (who’ve been given ammo from the watchdoggies) begin complaining (very loudly)


      • People take sides


      • After a time, some leave, either:


          o the detractors go and find a ‘bible driven church”


          o the detractors get their way and the church goes back to status quo, those who want growth and new life  


          leave.


      Either way, PD and RW get blamed for the schism, when the problem was birthed from within.


      My take anyway (from experience BTW)


      Wendi

    2. Pastor Dan on Thu, March 08, 2007

      Rick Warren is not to blame for any church split.  We live in a “blame someone else” society.  The splits happen for many different reasons but not Rick Warren.

    3. drbob on Thu, March 08, 2007

      We are afraid of losing control of God. If we allow God to show us that we are comfortable in our clubs and that changing things to reach people means that we may have to look in a mirror, we don’t like that. Here’s something I heard the other day, “Where in the Bible does it say for us to sing ‘an old song”. We are to sing a “new song”; hey and that doesn’t just apply to music. God’s truths never change, but the way it is delivered must change or we will continue to decline.

    4. fishon on Thu, March 08, 2007

      Let me get this. When we blame RW for problems, we are the bad guy for blaming. However Rick can say: “And when asked if he blames them, he replied, “I do blame them,” he’s right and the good guy?


      fishon

    5. Anthony D. Coppedge on Thu, March 08, 2007

      Fishon, read Wendi’s response. Her analysis is spot on, making me wonder how you can argue her points? If you can find fault with her rationale, please post counter points…

    6. Wendi on Thu, March 08, 2007

      Fishon - did you watch the interview with Bashir?  It was pretty clear to me that Bashir was asking “do you blame them for their problems, or is PDL the cause of conflict?”  To which RW replied “I blame them [for their own problems]”


      Which was my point in my original post.  Conflict in a church is birthed in that church.  Even when Paul was upset with the Galatians for listening to the Judizers (and he certainly did have some pretty harsh criticism toward them ), he blamed the Galatians for their own problems.  He didn’t write the the Galatia Gazzette, he wrote to the church.


      RW wasn’t blaming these churches for HIS problems, he said they (not PDL) are to blame for THEIR OWN problems.


      BTW - the Judizers were heretics because they presented another gospel, and RW has done nothing of the sort, despite the attempts of his critics to claim he has.


      Wendi

    7. Linda on Thu, March 08, 2007

      For starters I love Rick Warren and his wife.  I’ve seen a ton of good fruit from PDL.


      A friend of mine gave me three books for my birthday last year that basically say Warren has redefined Christianity.  It bummed me out to get them.  In reviewing the books I found the blame they placed on Warren should rightly be placed on the use of the Message and other translations. I guess you can’t even call the Message a translation so I do agree that it should not be used.


      That’s my blame somebody else!!

    8. Kent on Thu, March 08, 2007

      From Chris Rosebrough from CRN http://christianresearchnetwork.com/


      I’ve had the opportunity to dialogue with many defenders of Rick Warren and his Purpose-Driven methods over the internet.


      A common ‘tactic’ that these people employ is the ‘Body of Christ isn’t edified when we debate these things in public’ defense.


      They claim that these types of debates should happen privately. But because Rick Warren never answers his critics. They never happen at all.


      But, last night on Nightline, Rick Warren literally lashed out at his fellow Christian believers in a VERY public way and accused them of ‘living for themselves’ and blamed them for the church splits that have occurred in churches that have tried to become purpose-driven.


      Warren said that if some churches may suffer as a result of applying some of those principles, then “that’s the price.” “Every church has to make the decision. … Is it going to live for itself, or is it going to live for the world that Jesus died for?”


      When asked if he thinks that some of these splits are actually because Christians themselves are indulgent and refusing to change, Warren said, “Oh, without a doubt.” And when asked if he blames them, he replied, “I do blame them.”


      Doesn’t this seem VERY hypocritical to you? Those of us who disagree with Warren are not supposed to critique Warren in public. But, it is okay for him to accuse us of living for ourselves and imply that we are self-indulgent because we oppose HIS recommended changes to the church.


      Since when are Rick Warren’s ideas infallible and beyond criticism? Better yet, based on what Biblical passages can Rick Warren make the claim that Christians who want to be fed the word of God on Sunday instead of a ’seeker sensitive’ ’self-help’ sermon are ‘living for themselves’ or ’self indulgent’?


      I really would like the answer to these questions from those of you who defend Warren. Please send me your responses through the ‘Contact Us’ button on this page.

    9. Todd Rhoades on Thu, March 08, 2007

      Interesting, coming from a site that also doesn’t allow comments.


      Nah.  I think I’ll pass on this opportunity.  Thanks anyway.


      http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif


      Todd

    10. Wendi on Thu, March 08, 2007

      Kent – I think you and I were watching two different Nightline shows.


      Let’s see . . . the most terrible thing RW says is that the churches having conflict are “living for themselves” and blamed them for their own problems (without naming anyone personally or any church directly).


      On the other hand, the RW critics have called him (personally) a false teacher, heretic, apostate and much much worse.


      Wonder who is blasting who?


      I believe when he said “that’s the price” he was referring to the personal price he has paid because of the conflict swirling around his work.  He said:


      “You know, I wouldn’t intentionally want to cause pain to any person or to anyone,” Warren said. “Am I willing to put up with pain so the people [that] Jesus Christ died for can come to know him? Absolutely.” 


      And when speaking of churches . . .


      “Every church has to make the decision. … Is it going to live for itself, or is it going to live for the world that Jesus died for?”


      We each personally make the same decision every day.  I don’t think spending my days trying to bring down another Christian would help me live for the world Jesus died for.


      IMO Warren doesn’t respond because to do so would be to lower himself to Jr. High, name calling tactics that are divisive.  Responding simply perpetuates the childish arguments and would get him off mission – helping people Jesus died for come to know Him . . . a much better use of his time.

    11. Leonard on Thu, March 08, 2007

      Wendi,


      I think Kent was sharing a post from another site.  Kent, were these your questions or some you were relaying?

    12. Jan on Fri, March 09, 2007

      Kent, you accuse RW of “not answering his critics” but when he does you accuse him of “lashing out”.


      This is the heart of the issue.  Many Christians see RW as target practice.  And isn’t it sad that this interview was done by a non Christian news organization, addressing the criticism RW is receiving from Christians?  What a great witness to the world!


      This was my favoritie RW quote from the interview (I read all 4 sections)


      “It’s easy to be relevant if you don’t care about being biblical. I happen to want to be both.”


      I think that says it all.

    13. PastorBUN on Tue, March 20, 2007

      Church Health & Growth fall on leadership. Rick explained God’s 5 purposes for the church and set Saddleback as a model.  When a church fail to apply God’s 5 purposes, I strongly believe is not Rick’s problem but the church leadership itself who has poor leadership or lack of wisdom in applying God’s pricinples. No doubt about God’s purpose but more of the “way” we present & run the church. If we fail and blame Rick, that show we are immature and not humble enough to learn from others. That sounds like “Pride.”  We are actually wasting God’s time in criticizing or complaining what God is doing & blessing. We should focus on what God wants us to focus.

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