Secular Music… in Church!?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, September 22, 2005
- Viewed 133
- (35) comments so far
Let me ask everyone, what is secular music? Or what is Christian music? Hummmm.... you know, it does not exist. There is no such thing as Christian or secular music, there is only Christian or secular lyrics. Now, I believe that you must use great diserment, and common sense (common sense is not common!). I would not endorse playing Love Shack or something like that, but come on. What is wrong with some great "secular" music in church. Nothing in my opinion.
If your church is trying to be relevant or trying to reach a hell bound community or culture then you need to create an environment that will attract and capture their attention. Weaving great worship music and great known secular music is a wonderful way to create a great worship experience. I don't endorse playing secular music or any type of music just to do it; be intentional and on purpose with your music/worship set. I also encourage everyone to be creative and adjust your style for change sake. This weekend we are doing a total acoustic set, and we are playing 2 classic worship songs, and 2 great secular songs. All the songs create a mood and guide the audience in a direction that we are trying to take them.
Did you catch that....don't miss it, it is my final point. Take people where they need to go, not necessarily where they want to go! That has been a huge part of my learnings in the past month or so. Don't quote me, that statement is way to good to be mine.
Do you agree? Do you use 'secular' songs at your church? Why or why not?
Gotta love Terry Storch! He’s posted a real winner today on a very controversial topic… why would anyone use a ‘secular’ song in a ‘church’ setting. (No one knows how to post a controversial post like Terry and myself!) Here’s part of what Terry wrote…
Comments
if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, they will displayed on any website that supports them.
soulpastor on Thu, September 22, 2005
We use secular music almost every Sunday. We have used all types and styles from Velvet Revolver on a baptism Sunday to Our Lady Peace last Sunday, with our theme being on Suffering. We have even done the Juicy Fruit song(Don’t ask), Pink Floyd and the Monkees, and Garth Brooks!. It is amazing to hear people sing, during those songs.
Let me say this, we are a chruch plant, so we can get away with this, I have a hard time seeing an established church doing what we are able to do.
For us, worship in a narrow sense refers primarily to the gathering of GOD’S people as the local church to hear from GOD through Scripture, speak to GOD in song and prayer and remember Jesus’ love at communion.We understand the as the church gathers, we gather to lift up the name of Jesus.
While we try to be sensitive to non-believers by making what we mean and do intelligible, we also realize that the gospel; itself is an offense, and that no matter how loving and sensitive we are some people will simply dislike hearing that they are sinful and need Jesus to be righteous. (Galatians 5:11). So we seek not to focus on creating a church gathering for the building up of believers or reaching out to non-believers but to lift up Jesus so He can draw everyone to himself.
Since we always have non-believers gathered with us and it is important that they feel that they can enter in. Honestly, have you ever seen non believers singing church songs? No, but they will sing what they listen to on the radio, and then you have their attention.
I compare this to a post(Monday, August 1/05) by Bruce Johnson on why Pastor’s don’t hook their congregations. I would argue, that ‘hooking’ the congregation starts with the very song people hear when they walk into the building. You determine who you are reaching and what you are teaching by your background music and worship order. If you want to reach Christians then keep playing Christian music, if you want to reach non believers start singing their language!
Just a few thoughts…be blessed.
Rick Courtney on Thu, September 22, 2005
Great topic- I would agree that there are some great tunes from the past that we could and we do use in our church. A few off the top of my head—Some Kind of Wonderful—We changed the Chorus line to- Well My Jesus- He’s Alright- Yea My Saviours clean outta sight- Don’t ya know that HE IS SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL
Another One We use—- Drift Away by Dobie Gray but instead of singing- Give Me The Beat Boys——We sing—Give Me the Beat Lord to free my soul—I wanna get lost in your rock n roll- and Drift Away. Put that in with todays Worship- mix in a traditional hymn acoustically- it makes for a moving Godly experience.
I know some may not agree with it but hey- For each their own and we are seeing Lives coming to know Jesus daily-
Who could forget the classic by the Doobie Brothers-
Jesus is Just Alright—OH YEAH!-
May today find you blessed- Rick
James on Thu, September 22, 2005
I want to add just a little different perspective on “secular” music. I was classically trained to play the pipe organ. I went to a Christian college and studied with one of the world’s greatest concert organist and church organists. I have played “secular” organ music for years in the church. Classical keyboard music from the early masters was played in church. But there was no way to distinguish the keyboard music of those eras as being “Christian” or “secular” except by the intent of the composer and the performer. There were no lyrics only titles and those titles, as by Bach were merely identification markers; Prelude, Air, Trumpet Tune etc. J.S. Bach is quoated as saying “Music must have as its chief aim, to the Glory of God and the souls refreshment, where this is not remembered there is no true music.” To Bach, all music came from God’s hand and was fit for use to glorify Him and to refresh the soul. I offer a little different direction, but I agree there is no real sacred or secular music only lyrics. Although some secular “tunes” could be identified as being such because of their identification of the text i.e. “House of the rising sun” for example. Today I embrace the new contemporary music and enjoy the wind of composition and creativity happening in the world. Hillsong and MercyMe are some of my favorite worship CD’s.
Great perspective by the author.
rev-ed on Thu, September 22, 2005
I remember being in the lobby during a Christian concert by Mark Farner—the former lead singer of Grand Funk Railroad—who originally popularized “Some Kind of Wonderful”. Farner changed the lyrics in much the same way soulpastor quoted. I saw a couple dozen “secular” concert-goers walk out on the show at that point. They were offended that Farner was changing “their songs”. Interesting comment, I thought.
Bernie Dehler on Thu, September 22, 2005
I think the reverse is really cool: take secular songs and change the lyrics to santify them. Same beat, different spirit with a transformed mind. See apologetix.com for the group that does an awesome job at this (Christian version of Weird Al). Free MP3’s of their songs there, too. It’s so cool to take a secular song and transform it into a worship or meditation song.
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
Jonathan Dabill on Thu, September 22, 2005
I just read the article and the posted comments concerning the idea of secular music in churches. What made me so blown away was the fact that “Christians” today have no common sense or discernment. Contrary to most of you pastors and ministers posting up comments on this site, I am a carpenter who has to listen to the garbage coming out of that radio at work. Yes, garbage. Several people have correctly coined the term “African Sex Music.” That’s what it is. You hear that stuff coming out of that radio and I don’t have to hear any words (most of the time I can’t because they can’t sing)and I can tell that stuff ‘ain’t’ Christian. It grinds at my nerves. Paul’s letter to the Phillipians says that we are to think ONLY on things that are lovely, true, virtuous, of good report, honest, and just. Now, can you tell me honestly and truthfully, that rap music, rock music, and “all that JAZZ” is ok for church services and can be “confused” for Christian music? Shame on you. There is a three-fold music system in Colossians 3:16. There we read that we are to admonish one another in “psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs.” This leads any man with at least the brains of a musquito to belive that a “worship” service must include the reading of psalms (you’ve got 150 of them in your bible), the singing of hymns(yes, those old songs your grandmother sings) and spiritual songs (ex. “I’ll Fly Away,” or “Above All.”). With that being the case, MYYYY, how “the Church” has slipped. Most churches don’t even care to include the first two.
Lastly, the Bible says in Ezekiel 22:26, “...they have put no difference between the HOLY and the PROFANE, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN and the CLEAN…” EVERY BAD THING is a good thing twisted. GOD created music and Satan has twisted it and has seduced God’s children to think that there is “NO DIFFERENCE between them.” God save this LAODICEAN church.
soulpastor on Thu, September 22, 2005
Is this a hot topic? Not at all, and I love it when people question the salvation of others! Oh the joy of living in community when one knows who will be in heaven and who will not!
Below is an excerpt of an article by Chad Hall of http://www.coolchurches.com
Wait, because it says ‘coolchurches’ can it even be christian? Anyway…
Chad writes:
“This brings us to some considerations. Here are some guidelines that I would follow in using secular music:
1. Be somewhat selective in the music you choose. Not all songs are appropriate for this kind of thing, because not all songs contain even a nugget of truth. However, don’t make the artist the criteria by which you judge the song. God is the ultimate Artist, so trust that he might just use Van Halen to speak His message.
2. This is for worship, not entertainment. People are smart, and they can tell when you’re using a song to promote the worship of God and when you’re doing it just to appear to be hip. The key is to make the hip holy, not just be hip.
3. Help folks re-interpret the songs in light of who Jesus is and what He has done. Don’t get trapped into thinking that a song is ‘about’ just one thing. One problem with music videos is that we mistakenly believe them to reveal the ‘official’ meaning of a song. Use your insight and perspective to reinterpret the song. Give it a meaning that meshes with the worship experience you’re creating. One way to do this is to make your own video, with PowerPoint or Flash.
4. Realize that some songs can be illustrative without being worshipful. There are many songs that highlight the human condition to which God alone speaks. Use these songs as you would a quotation or a story.
5. Feel free to change the words. If there are curse words or heavy sexual language or something, change the words. Just using secular tunes can make a big impact on your worshippers. The Dire Straits tune I mentioned was given words that included ‘Just as I am.’ Talk about slamming the secular and sacred together!
Here are a few songs that you might consider using in your next worship service:
Van Halen, ‘Right Now’ - Great message: there’s no tomorrow, so do it right here and now.
Creed, ‘Higher’ - Visions of a better (heavenly) world where love replaces hate.
Boston, ‘Don’t Look Back’ - The song is about new beginnings, ‘Oh, I see myself in a brand new way.’ Also, ‘Peace of Mind’ - Breaking free from competition and the ephemeral nature of human life.
Vertical Horizon, ‘You’re A God’ - The Christian’s confession to Jesus: ‘You’re a God, and I’m not’
Matchbox 20, ‘Bent’ - ‘Please help me, I’m bent ‘’
Copyright 2000, Chad Hall.”
Some more interesting thoughts to chew…
I believe that NOT all churches can do this nor should all churches do it…all I can say is that GOD is moving in our midst and the number of non believers that are coming and who are sensing and experiencing the saving power of the Holy Spirit is fantastic. The music is only a small tool in our whole experience. It is only 3 minutes in the entire morning, and yet that moment in time can guide some to a real and meaningful encounter with the creator of the universe…
BTW rev-ed implied that soulpastor changes lyrics? We don’t!
Smile and be blessed from a Hymn singing, secular listening (TV watching), fundamental, people loving,...journeyman!
Peter Hamm on Fri, September 23, 2005
Jonathan,
where to start…
I’m so glad you pointed out that the “hymns” mentioned in the Bible refer to old drinking songs that have had their lyrics changed so they could be sung in church. At one point, you know, those songs were as controversial as can be!
Last Sunday we used Switchfoot’s “Meant to Live” in our service, where we were talking about how people should get involved and work to change their world. Perfect Top 40 song to use, of course, it’s actually by Christians, so maybe it’s not the best example. I’ve done a medley of “Where the Streets Have No Name” with “Did You Hear the Mountains Tremble” that worked really well, too. I’ve used a Creed song, and I even used Elvis’ “Suspicious Minds” once. (That was a hoot, let me tell you.)
I love the hymns, I love jazz, I love some of the better performed and written “African sex music”. Sometimes a style of music doesn’t suit you because it’s just not your style. Let’s stop forcing our musical tastes on others. (I can’t BELIEVE the church is still fighting about this.)
Peace! Hymn on! Rock on! Whatever it takes to tell your corner of the world about our marvelous Savior!
KAREN COOPER on Fri, September 23, 2005
i WOULD LIKE TO QUOTE A FOUNDER OF CHRISTIAN ROCK MUSIC, LARRY NORMAN, IN ONE OF HIS SONGS SAYS, “i KNOW WHAT’S RIGHT , i KNoW WHAT’S WRONG, i don’t confuse it, BUT aLL I AM TRYING TO SAY IS WHY SHOULD THE dEVIL GET ALL THE GOOD MUSIC?”
We should use decernment. God once used a donkey to send his message. He can use any music if it is his will. If God has touched the application and he is the at the event then he receives glory. If it is God.s music I wnat to listen to it.
However I feel much empathay for the fellow ho is forced to listen to “radio music” during work. I have been in a simular situation. You hear it, then you know the words then it goes through your head when you are not at work. I began to sing it to the Lord. A lot of the , man-woman love songs can be converted in the heart and head to Jesuus-me love songs. As for the nasty stuff, change the words and sing to the Lord from within yourself and when you see him, the old passes away.
Joe Johnson on Fri, September 23, 2005
Beyond talking music, the thing that seemed most telling about the post is the use of “audience” to describe a congregation - the church. I guess if you think in terms of performers and audience, what’s the harm in anything entertaining?
Joe Johnson on Fri, September 23, 2005
Beyond talking music, the thing that seemed most telling about the post is the use of “audience” to describe a congregation - the church. I guess if you think in terms of performers and audience, what’s the harm in anything entertaining?
Peter Hamm on Sat, September 24, 2005
Joe,
At my church we get a lot of people who don’t know Christ yet, don’t understand worship yet, et cetera. I have to tell you, I wouldn’t call those folks a “congregation.” You know what I would call them? Right… an audience.
I hope that they BECOME the congregation, and we certainly do HAVE one. But I want to be the greek to the greek. If my entertaining them leads to them eventually accepting Christ, and here that happens all the time and those people become plugged-in connected Christians, then I’ll entertain them. Sure!
Jonathan Dabill on Sun, September 25, 2005
Peter,
Where to start,
Thanks for telling me which songs were old bar songs. I mean that really gave me some insight. Ha, hA!
Let me ask you something. Does the song “Rock of ages” make you want to go to the bar? Does the song make girls literally tear off the shirt of the male singer who sings it? Does the song make you think of carousing in abar? I don’t think so!!
So all music is neutral is it? Prove it! You people have been lying for ever since the 60’s when the Beattles came on the scene about all music being of God. You were told in Isaiah that Lucifer was master of pipes. He was a musician in glory before he was thrown out. What makes you think he isn’t capable of using his obvious resources to pollute the world and the body of Christ? You’re not immune from the wiles of the devil!!
Peter Hamm on Mon, September 26, 2005
Jonathan,
Thanks for your comments. But I’d love to set the record straight on a couple things. I think you may have read into my statements more than a little. (And now I’m “you people”? I’m not sure how to take that. But I think it’s pretty negative.)
I never said all music was neutral. And personally, I’m just not convinced that a certain STYLE of music will make girls “tear off the shirt of the male singer who sings it.” Perhaps the presentation of that song might do that, perhaps the singer himself in a particular environment.
And I would never dispute that our Enemy is capable of using his resources to pollute. He can use the arts, literature, TV. We know he can even use the Bible to deceive! He’s crafty. I don’t contest that.
Contemporary music has been controversial in the church for a millenium or more. It’s not likely to ease up any time soon. Some of us will have to agree to disagree. (I knew of a church that had a lesson on the Devil once, and guess what song they used to illustrate it one Sunday? Yeah, you guessed it… “Sympathy for the Devil.” Too far? I’m not sure, I still wrestle with that one. The lyrics definitely represent a point of view that the Devil may very likely have, but I don’t think I would’ve programmed that song.)
I will continue to try my best to be the greek to the greek…
Rick Courtney on Mon, September 26, 2005
I’m behind you Peter- Being Greek to Greek - Indian to Indian but I think the main point of any of the music is what both of you hit on a TAD- Its all in presentation—If you wanna present it to remind those of the past- It wouldn’t be a good thing but if you present it in a way that Glorifies God- People that have dealt with the junk from there past can see that you can overcome the past- That is a key point in accepting Jesus- knowing that by His Grace- We are saved. Like you Pete- We have alot of people that come for the music- I’ve seen many salvations that lead to new lives that become active in serving with the congregation.
Page 1 of 3 pages 1 2 3 >
Post a Comment