The Pastor Problem
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, July 12, 2005
- Viewed 178
- (42) comments so far
Pastors.
That's the number one weakness in the modern church today. Paid pastoral leadership is the reason the church is weak, inefficient and to a point...neutered.
Now remember, I made my living (is that what that was called?) from being a paid staff member for over 16 years. In the beginning, I felt that I was vital to the church's development and growth. That without me, the church body couldn't function. Over the years, that changed as I begin to read such books as Frank Tillipaugh's "Unleashing the Church". The goal of pastoral ministry became leading and training so that the people were equipped to do the work. That sounds like a good goal, however....
Are we that arrogant as pastors that we think if we didn't exist that people wouldn't figure out how to have church by themselves....without our leadership? Pastors, do we think that we need to create meetings, groups and activities to keep the church people "happy" and "connected"? Do we think that believers wouldn't figure out a way to get together regularly, for sharing, communion, mutual encouragement and to share their faith stories? Do we not think that the life force of the believer, the Holy Spirit, might not be "set free" to work in and through Christ-followers to accomplish his work here on earth?
Think about it. Whenever you pay someone to do a task or job, what are you really doing? You are asking them to take responsibility for something you don't want to do. Isn't this the American way??
If I need my yard landscaped or manicured, I hire someone to do it for me. Problem solved. If I want my house cleaned from top to bottom, I could do it, but why when I can pay someone $60 to come in and really do it well...and then I no longer have to get on my hands and knees to clean that darn toilet grime.
Now move this analogy to the American church. Whenever there is a job to do, we look to the person we hired to take care of it for us. To quote an article I read recently, "The pastor, by his mere presence, causes an unhealthy dependence upon himself for ministry, direction and guidance."
Even in today's most modern of churches, those labeling themselves as "emerging", the problem persists. Recently, one young local church (let's call it ABC Church) that I followed from it's infancy, had a tough decision to make. After about three years of existence, I heard that they were deciding whether to A) keep paying the pastor or B) keep paying for a place to meet each week. My question is...why do you need either? This isn't an indictment, just a question.
Now ABC Church was going to be "cutting edge". It's leadership from day one said that they were going to create a community independent of the "old ways" of doing church. Yet in the end, they were faced with a dilemma that all churches face...paid staff and building space. Doesn't sound very innovative to me.
At the beginning ABC Church said they were going to set up a church in a way that "no one else was doing". I am sorry people...but that just doesn't happen unless you choose some radical departures from the "old ways".
So here's a question. If all of the pastors in all of the churches resigned or were "let go"...what would happen? Or, to rewrite a line from the old Beatles song...."Imagine there's no pastors. It's easy if you try!"
Would the church flourish or struggle? If you choose flourish then why do we have pastors? If you choose struggle, then how well are our pastors truly doing their jobs of "equipping, training and leading" their congregations?
Before all of my pastor friends send me hate mail, I don't think it is all your fault. I think the church culture has caused you to function as CEO's and not pastors. We need you to resign yourself as the CEO's of your church or ministry. As fast as you can run away from treating the church as a business. Leave your church meetings, your planning sessions, your growth conferences, and go and interact with far from God people where they are - outside of your church. Stop bearing the burden of whether your church offering or attendance is what it should be - you just aren't that important!
Start encouraging your congregations to stop coming to so many church meetings and ask them to get involved in the local community activities outside of the church. Asking them to do both is only burning them out. And asking them to make a choice is only making them feel guilty. Encourage them to immerse themselves in their "work culture" and to get to know their co-workers and become their friends...not so they can convert them...but because all people need friends.
Finally, please stop asking us to bring our "unchurched friends" to your church to fill the empty seats around us. Do you actually know how difficult it is to get someone who is seriously "far from God" to come to church? By asking us to do this, you imply that the only way we can truly make a difference in someone's life is by getting them to the church building.
I have asked for all pastors to resign...and for some of you, that may be the radical change you need to actually get in touch with your own identity outside of the church system. But for others, it may just be that you need to "resign" yourself emotionally and become the change agent that will lead the church to the reformation we so desperately need.
What do you think? Any validity? I have some thoughts, but as blog owner I'll keep them to myself for the time being and share them as the discussion moves forward (if anyone's interested)...
I’m still trying to get my arms around this whole emerging church idea. I honestly think that much of the problem for me is that most emerging churches are emerging differently. (Anyone else get that feeling?) Anyway, I’m trying to read as many different perspectives as I can. Here’s one I found interesting. According to this emergent writer, the pastors are the problem. Read this, and give me your perspective. Does the writer make any valid points in your opinion? (You can read his full post here if you like)…
Comments
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Dimovski on Tue, July 12, 2005
The pastor should be a teacher and a missionary.
bernie dehler on Tue, July 12, 2005
That’s quite an indictment against many/most? mega-Pastors. Looks like lots of common sense.
The summary paragraph says it well, and is balanced:
“I have asked for all pastors to resign…and for some of you, that may be the radical change you need to actually get in touch with your own identity outside of the church system. But for others, it may just be that you need to “resign” yourself emotionally and become the change agent that will lead the church to the reformation we so desperately need.”
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
Rick on Tue, July 12, 2005
the Chinese church exploded when all their leaders.. indigenous and imported.. where killed or left the country. What is the implication for change for the church in North America?
Rick on Tue, July 12, 2005
A few days ago a friend reminded me of an analogy George Bush Sr. used in an inagural address back in 91’; a thousand points of light. The president used it to inspire Americans toward “doing good works” and “being moral people”.
It seemed in our conversation among friends, the Spirit was teaching us about the Kingdom of God. Jesus said “you will do greater things than these”...why?...because I (Jesus) will indwell each believer and thus be humanly manifested in more than one body through intimate personal relationships with people; a thousand points of light.
God has many mediums through which His glory (character) is made known to men. All the created order declares His glory, but He indwells only one medium; believers - you & me. The lost see, understand and are drawn to God through the created order. They interact with Him (Jesus) through us; individual believers, until the day they receive Jesus’ Life themselves which enables an intimate personal relationship of their own.
God doesn’t indwell organizations, meetings, scripture, buildings, prayer closets, homeless shelters or songs just as He doesn’t indwell trees, birds & clouds. So much energy in ‘christiandom’ is used to call attention to the glory of God when nothing man puts together even comes close to what He’s already done through the created order. Look at the sun & sky, the stars & moon and compare that with the greatest concert light show or fireworks event ever; the scale and magnificence of His creation is beyond comparison. Our role isn’t to call attention to the glory of God, but to “be” the glory of God…to our neighbors, co-workers, friends, acquaintances, strangers and enemies.
Jesus indwells you. People interact with Jesus through their interaction with you.
“Being” the glory of God to folks in the everyday of life; A thousand points of light in the middle of the forest gives light to those nearby…but what of those wondering out in the darkness of your everyday travels & living?
Matt Thompson on Tue, July 12, 2005
I just wrote a lengthy dissertation on this topic and it waslost forever in cyberspace….lol. Anyway, if anyone wants to discuss it further with me please contact. Bottom line: One pastor system is wrong….God’s model allows for a plurality of Elders (1 Timothy 3, Titus 2). Elders are too be paid! (1 Timothy 5:17-18 “honor” references money specifically in a word study and study of syntax in the original kione greek. Pastor is a spiritual gift not an office (ex. Eph 4:12). There are only two offices….deacon and elder. People with the gift of teaching/preaching who are not elders are to be paid. Finally, could the church go without pastors yes…could it go without any leadership….no…..or 1 Timothy would not have been written. We need those who are apt to teach to prevent heresy. We have so much heresy now because the scripture is not valued as absolute truth in this country by leadership or lay people since the Post Enlightenment and more so Second Great Awakening Periods.
pmn on Tue, July 12, 2005
While we’re at it, why don’t we all design the church that WE think would be best.
So, I think if I were to design a church based on the gospels it would probably look more like this:
We would advertise;
-Unless you’re willing to die to yourself, you don’t want to come to this church.
-Unless you hate Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, yea even your own life also, you don’t want to come to this church.
-Do you treasure God more than anything in life? So much so that you would part with everything in your life to have God? This is the church for you.
-Do you want to worship God and make much of him until eternity? This is the church for you.
You see we wouldn’t have a church filled with people who whine because they understand that it truly isn’t about them. So church life would go something like this:
“Did someone insult me? Oh, I didn’t notice. Did someone judge me? Oh, I didn’t notice. You see I know that what anyone thinks of me doesn’t come close to how bad I really am, which is why I am so thankful for God’s amazing grace and I purpose to spend my life making much of him, giving him as much glory as I possibly can.”
Imagine living in community where people didn’t even consider themselves at all because they were so busy loving and glorifying God. Unfortunately, as CS Lewis said, “the problem is that we think too small when it comes to God”
What would your church look like?
Anthony D. Coppedge on Tue, July 12, 2005
Pastors resign. Don’t run the church like a business. Don’t bring unchurched friends to church.
Man, on paper that just sounds incredible. But what it fails to address is the ramifications of these kinds of actions.
Now, to be clear, I agree with some of the principles discussed above, but not with the authors’ methodology.
Let’s take this step by step:
1) Pastors resign. OK, so we have a plurality of leadership, but now we lack a single visionary leader to set the course for the local body. So, in effect, we just created a committe of lay leaders to run the church. Strange, but that sounds a whole lot like a Doctor asking the patients to manage the Doctor’s office - it’s a recipe for failure as a means to an end.
Instead of throwing the Pastor out, why not use teams of leaders to handle the day-to-day operations of any growing church? Where does it say that the Pastor has to be a genius leader, visionary, accountant, custodian, artist, landscaper, architect, etc.?
2) What happens when churches don’t have any kind of metric system for guaging the effectiveness of their growth? Or for the impact of individual ministries? Or for the marketing efforts? Or for how they spend money? Or how they hold people accountable to their responsibilities? Or how to make sure people (staff and/or lay leaders or volunteers) don’t lose the balance of ministry with their family/personal life?
In other words, the very effective leadership and management that are so helpful in business still work wonderfully within the context of the local church. Do we throw away good principles and accountability just because it looks and acts a lot like the business world?
3) If you’re not engaging the unchurched on a personal level and giving them a chance, over time, to come and experience corporate worship, how is that being a good fisher of men? With my church, we put a lot of effort into making the unchurched and formerly churched feel at ease in the weekend services. Should we stop doing that because it’s hard?
I believe the author has great intentions but that his methods are not realistic or practical to implement. Instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, let’s learn to creatively change how we do what we do without changing the timeless truth of the message. To follow the course of action described above may work wonders in dying, diseased churches (though I still have my reservations). But for churches turning the corner or blazing ahead, this kind of strategy will lead to a more loss, not growth.
My 2 cents on the pile,
Anthony D. Coppedge
P Hurston on Tue, July 12, 2005
What an “out of the box”, thought!
Maybe Pastors could ask themselves, do I fit
the decription of a CEO, or a DOS(Director of Servants)? Isn’t the church suppose to be about serving? We have strayed too far
away from our original purpose.
We should gather on Sunday in a building to praise Him for what He has done, and what He has allowed us to do, and to receive new instructions, NOT to be some “ecclesiastical status symbol” among
those who are also trying to be bigger and have more members, what a waste!!We have given the term “church"a bad name, maybe we should use the term “fellowship” or"gathering”.
By the way I have been a church staff person
for over 25yrs, and whatever it is we don’t
see in our Pastors, believe you me, the
people have certainly made thier contribution to the problem, by complacency,
or by lack of knowledge.
Let us recognize, then Pastor help people, and people help Pastor, get back to where
God meant for us to be, A PLACE OF SERVICE!!
Thanks,
phurston/dallas
BeHim on Tue, July 12, 2005
What do you think? Any validity?
Valid yes. Do the people have ears to hear? I truly hope so. The emerging church and relevant movement might as well be called Laodicea (Revelation 3 and Colossians)
Here are my experiences of what is happening in many of the churches I’ve worked with and some of the “house churches” I’ve attended:
Here’s what is going on outside the church:
The True Gospel is being defined for purposes of defense and evangalism.
Dogmatic doctrines are put to the test to define which ones are true and which ones are indefensible.
Belief systems are tested in Scripture and Iron is sharpening Iron.
They are edifying, reproofing, encouraging and correcting so they may be found worthy of the calling.
What is going on in the church?
Changing The Gospel to be more relavent to the individual needs of the “seeker” in hopes that being married to the world (as in business methods, practices and ideologies) will build the “kingdom of god”.
Don’t believe in absolute truth or that if there are any, they can’t be known (as proven even on this blog).
Don’t offend anyone and tolerate sin so we can reach the lost.
Reproof and correction are mocked and slandered.
Thoughts, ideas and books about the Bible are to be discussed as opposed to Scripture.
Ricky on Tue, July 12, 2005
Thank you, Todd, for finally posting an article that is so refreshing to read (and to agree with totally) that I’m just beside myself! http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Ricky on Tue, July 12, 2005
Hey pmn:
Fantastic post!
Ricky on Tue, July 12, 2005
Quote:
“but now we lack a single visionary leader to set the course for the local body.”
No you don’t. Ever heard of the Spirit of God?
We need to discuss what the mind of Christ is (biblically) and how we obtain it.
(Hint: no one person can obtain it on their own. It takes a community to do so and it’s that way for a purpose [safety])
Jean-Paul Paroissien on Wed, July 13, 2005
Somebody ought to tell this writer to grow up. If he doesn’t like the church and he doesn’t like the profession, follow his own advice. Drop out. Resign. Live a holy life in the world working at a regular job that actually contributes something to society. And while you’re doing it, continue to study the Bible, pray, give generously to God’s people in need, and tell others the good news.
It’s a big order. My guess is, the guy couldn’t really hack it. If he could, he’d be living out his advice and not spending his time on his whiny blog.
I’d be far more impressed if he had made some suggestions on how to “resign” or how to return to what is important as a pastor.
Let him take his own advice. Get a job loading trucks, or obtain a plumber’s licence. Work 50 hours a week and try to make ends meet. Build a community while he’s at it. To impress me even more, build a community that gives generously to charities, evangelises, supports missionaries, etc. Enjoy your little house church, and down the road a decade or so make another post telling me all the wonderful things that have happened…
Then, I’d be impressed. Until then, I will keep my profession, happily cash my paycheque, feed my family, be available for pastor things like visiting the sick, counselling families, etc., work with my board, manage the building, and so forth.
Oh yeah, while I’m at it, prepare a sermon and mentor my staff.
We don’t have a perfect system, but it’s not nearly as bad as this whiny, disgruntled writer makes it seem. Somehow, even under CEO pastors, people get saved, families get restored, charities are supported and missionaries are sent.
J-P
Todd Rhoades on Wed, July 13, 2005
Ricky,
I knew I’d earn some points with you on this one. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Todd
Ricky on Wed, July 13, 2005
Quote:
“Somebody ought to tell this writer to grow up. If he doesn’t like the church and he doesn’t like the profession, follow his own advice. Drop out. Resign. Live a holy life in the world working at a regular job that actually contributes something to society. And while you’re doing it, continue to study the Bible, pray, give generously to God’s people in need, and tell others the good news.”
My, my, my. Apparently the truth of the article has touched some very defensive nerves!
I believe the writer has follow his own advice and is apparently enjoying his new found freedom to be all tha God has gifted him and called him to be, which has increased his ministry, not hindered it.
Quote:
“Let him take his own advice. Get a job loading trucks, or obtain a plumber’s licence. Work 50 hours a week and try to make ends meet. Build a community while he’s at it. To impress me even more, build a community that gives generously to charities, evangelises, supports missionaries, etc. Enjoy your little house church, and down the road a decade or so make another post telling me all the wonderful things that have happened…”
My bet is that the community he has built through being freed from the role of “pastor” is far stronger than most because he is with real people because he wants to be, not because he’s paid to be.
I would also bet that the people of his community know that he’s there because he wants to be and not because it’s expected of him and his “role.” Instead of having a “community” that is a mile wide and only an inch thick, those in his community are better able to withstand the pressures that life brings and are not dependent upon being carried upon the narrow, weak shoulders of a man.
Quote:
“Until then, I will keep my profession, happily cash my paycheque, feed my family, be available for pastor things like visiting the sick, counselling families, etc., work with my board, manage the building, and so forth.
Oh yeah, while I’m at it, prepare a sermon and mentor my staff.”
And therein lies the rub.
The majority of “pastors” do it because they’re paid to, whereas the writer of the article does so because he’s called to do it.
What a vast difference.
Those who are called to do it do so with absolute joy, without even an eye toward renumeration. Those who expect nothing in return for doing what Jesus did for us, will receive much more than any fleeting satisfaction that a paycheck could ever bring.
This is the love that Christ said would prove to the world that we are His disciples, not some trumped up “emotion” that is as thick as the paper on which a paycheck is printed. Believe it or not, most people know when we really love them with an unconditional love and when we’re just going through the motions.
Quote:
“We don’t have a perfect system, but it’s not nearly as bad as this whiny, disgruntled writer makes it seem. Somehow, even under CEO pastors, people get saved, families get restored, charities are supported and missionaries are sent.”
And people are saved in spite of the “system,” not because of it.
God’s love compels Him to reach out to man, without expecting anything in return. Why? Because it’s His nature to be and to do so.
The question is, if we are who we claim to be, shouldn’t we do the same?
It seems to me that the person who has to justify his/her position by tearing down the selfless actions of others is the one who should be pitied, for he/she has no understanding of eternity.
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