Monday Morning Insights

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    To the Coast Hills Staff:  No More Flip Flops!

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    "We have a new pastor from the Washington, D.C., area, and he's having to readjust to California culture because where he comes from, it's a little more formal," says Cheryl Klem, a spokeswoman for Coast Hills. "Just (last week) we implemented for our staff a new dress code that requires they do not wear beach flip-flops to work. There's a fine line, and we want to honor the culture of California and the casual style, but we also, as a staff, want to lead the way and present an image of reverence for coming to church.

    "At same time," Klem added, "we welcome anybody to church; we don't care what they are wearing on their feet."

    Does your church have a set dress code either for the staff during the week, or for staff on weekends?  How has it changed in the last five years?








    A sad day has arrived for the staff members of Coast Hills Church in Aliso Viejo, CA after the church decided to deny them the right to wear ‘beach flip flops’ to work.  This, according to an article published this week in the OC Register:  When pastors set the fashion tone wearing Hawaiian shirts and deck shoes, can a comfortable congregation be far behind? Attire at many of the big churches that cater to families - like the Calvary churches, Saddleback Church in Lake Forest and Coast Hills Community Church in Aliso Viejo - looks nothing like that of yesteryear…

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    1. Chuck Musselwhite on Fri, July 29, 2005

      I laugh as I sit at my desk wearing a hawaiian shirt, shorts, and flip flops. I am part of the “Calvary Churches” in California and what attracted me to ministry here is the casual atmoshpere. Our dress code is collared shirts on Sunday! Oh yeah I live twenty minutes from the beach and it never gets hotter than 85 degrees here.


      The reason I say all of this is because t doesn’t matter. You scoff at my style of dress and I laugh at yours. I’ve been in the suit and tie church as well and it all comes down to Kingdom work. If you are focused on dress code then maybe you need to refocus.

    2. Tommy Ham on Fri, July 29, 2005

      Dress code for Sunday morning “platform”—no shirt, no shoes, no participation.

      We are casual.  We’ve had a few people want to be barefoot while leading worship—and that’s where I’ve drawn the line.  Call me close-minded.


      I came from a suit and tie culture/church background to this church five years ago.  It didn’t play well in our area.  Since I dropped the suit and started wearing just slacks and a sport (sometimes Hawaiian) shirt, I have been amazed at the barriers that have been broken down.  I heard from someone last week who had rejected “church” because of the dress for success…dress to impress culture.

    3. pjlr on Fri, July 29, 2005

      I’m a bit old school.  I’ve always believed that casual dress = casual attitude. If I go to a company picnic I wear shorts and t-shirt (if it is appropriate).  I want an audience with the Big Kahuna, I dress accordingly.


      It is interesting to me that the church seems to be on the back end of trends.  While the business world is cutting back on “casual Fridays” we are encouraging “casual Sundays.”  Management has learned that if you give an inch people will take a mile.

      I don’t mind suggesting cutting the baby in half. Put together a modest dress code and you’ll see who really owns the baby. If you got people not attending your church or leaving because you have a bit of a dress code, maybe you should look to refocus? What kind of response will you get when you ask them to quit living together outside of marriage, or suggest that paying a tithe may be a sign of commitment, or attending more than once a week, or . . .


      I’m expecting the usual barrage of accusations of being a “legalist”. Too bad that we can’t expect anything from anyone anymore without being labeled.


      BTW, back to the flip-flops.  I guess they’re ok if they have rhinestones;^)

    4. Geoff on Fri, July 29, 2005

      Some of the oddest meetings I’ve sat through were old men (like me) discussing what our staff could and could not wear to work. We wrestled with blue jeans (yes), blue jeans with holes (no), sandals (yes), flip flops (no). The result of these completely useless conversations is that somewhere buried in our 246 page Employee Manual (DO NOT LOSE THIS DOCUMENT!) is a Dress Code that no one reads and few follow.


      I think John the Baptist had the best idea; grow your hair, eat honey and wear what don’t itch. Oh, and preach the gospel.

    5. bernie dehler on Sat, July 30, 2005

      “There’s a fine line, and we want to honor the culture of California and the casual style, but we also, as a staff, want to lead the way and present an image of reverence for coming to church.”


      I wonder if they would hire Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, or any of the Apostles…

      Does the Lord reside in the church? Or does He reside in the heart?  I thought the Holy Spirit resides in our body, the temple, now…


      1 Corinthians 6:19


      Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;


      Should a “church” have more “reverance” than a home?  If so, I guess they need to tell those home churches to get right, and get going to church… the revered place…

       

      ...Bernie


      http://www.freegoodnews.com

       

    6. Peter Hamm on Sun, July 31, 2005

      I just started on staff at a church that has a more relaxed dress code than I hafve ever been used to in any job I’ve worked. I am typically the only one not wearing shorts, not wearing sandals or flip flops. I’m the only guy who’s so far never worn a hawaiian shirt during the week or on Sunday. (they gave me a really obnoxious shirt as a welcome gift, to have a little fun with me… I think I will eventually probably wear it.) Typically I’ll wear khakis, decent dress shoes or casual shoes, and a decent polo-style shirt or something. (No tie, though, I promise)

      Guess what… I’m starting to think that I’M the one who’s dressing “inappropriately”. It’s obvious that I’M the one who has to adjust to this new environment or I might make people uncomfortable. I gotta go get me some Hawaiian shirts!


      Hey, guys. It don’t matter. Be the jew to the jew and the greek to the greek!

       

    7. Rick on Mon, August 01, 2005

      GIVE ME A BREAK!  Get over it.  Who cares!  Church isn’t a business.  I understand if you have a conference or you are hosting a business men’s lunch or catering to a certain type of people.  But to have a blanket edict declaring bans on shoes?  We have fallen way below the standards of what is important when discussing CLOTHES!  Come on people.  Only you care, the generations you are reaching DON’T!  Harsh I know but this drives me insane.  I am sure the heart is right but the outcome is crazy.  Thanks for letting me vent.

    8. Rick on Mon, August 01, 2005

      This conversation really interest me and I send this out trying to learn as I am a new pastor although being 39 yrs of age- What is the problem with holey jeans- flip flops- tshirts. Although this started with staff members who are hired to do a job- I could see having a standard in place for them but so often I have seen churches that look down upon unbelievers who attend church that wear these sorts of clothing.  Also what about men who wear hats or ballcaps in church- Is there anything unbiblical - I think not but I’m open to hear some other opinions-

    9. Rick on Mon, August 01, 2005

      To add something to this- What about men wearing ballcaps in the church?  Do you think Jesus really cares what we wear when we worship him.  Its all about a relationship with Him and I tend to think we should be as relaxed as we would be if we are home in HIS Presence.  This does not take away the fact that if you are more comfortable in dressed up attire- then by all means wear the three piece suit but I think some Pastors tend to not like it due to the fact- It will drive away those that may have more money—- which to me is completely missing who Jesus is and was….

    10. Franklin Reeves on Mon, August 01, 2005

      I guess I am to old fashioned. I struggle to wear jeans to church, except when I expect to do manual work, or do not have time to change.


      I am more worried about the lack of dress, that the type of shoes someone wears. 


      Now one question is should we conform to the culture, or should the culture conform to us?


      I heard a pastor talk about a place he served. Women came in with no top on to church. However after their conversion they started wearing tops to church.


      Should the pastor’s wife have conformed to thier culture and removed her top on Sunday’s?

      Or is there a line we do not cross in conforming to our culture?

       

    11. Greg Atkinson on Mon, August 01, 2005

      Wow. I’m surprised. I think it’s funny, yet disturbing at the same time. Can’t wear flip-flops? I wonder what Jesus wore?  http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif


      I know Ken (I used to be in Washington DC) and know the church - which is a great church. It’s a shame that the “come as you are” slogan doesn’t apply to their staff, too.

    12. Greg on Tue, August 02, 2005

      From the outside looking in, sounds like a few stormy clouds are on the horizon if the “new guy” is taking away something that church has gotten used to.  Hope this was discussed with the staff and not just an edict handed down from above.  It’s the “dress-code” type church policies that keep me in ministry!!  Gotta love policies!

    13. g. on Wed, August 03, 2005

      There’s a lot to comment on here - varying issues. As for removing hats in worship/a sanctuary, it ties back to culture. Removing one’s hat is a sign of respect (men do it for the playing of the National Anthem in stadiums (and possibly homes!) all around the country/world. Students are required to remove hats when entering a school. It is a physical and outward sign of respect for the person, institution or group. I am a youth minister and I have never forced someone to remove their hat during our mid-week worship service, yet most know and choose to remove it (at least when we pray). As far as what they wear all I really care about is if it’s “appropriate” and by that I mean covering all important areas. Unfortunately we live in a society where short skirts and low cut tops are the norm. There is too much “skin” showing in church. People will argue that perhaps that is all the person has. They aren’t a Christian yet and are un-churched, maybe that’s all they have. Would you rather them not come at all? No, I’d rather them come regardless of what they owned. My concern is about all the “Christians” who dress this way, not only TO worship, but at all. Where is the modesty in how we dress? Our clothing projects an unspoken statement about us and our clothing choices should honor God and should not cause people to stumble (or be distracted in worship). This is an entirely different subject, so I will leave it at that.

      As for worshiping barefoot…our youth choir’s name is “shoeless”. It’s based on two things: 1 - when Moses encountered God at the burning bush the Lord commanded him to remove his sandals/shoes because he was in the presence of the living God and the ground on which he was standing was holy ground (and we long as a choir to be standing on holy ground as we worship him and lead out in worship), and 2 - our group likes to perform barefoot (so we do regardless of where or when). (Plus, it makes it easier on matching and being uniform - while everyone may not own a pair of black socks, they all have access to bare feet!).  At camp this summer we encountered God in such a powerful way during our worship services, but one night was completely separate and in a different league. I was actually preaching on worship - how we worship, what it means to worship, and who God really is and how that should move us in our worship. I refered to Moses in the third chapter of Exodus and what his response was to being in the presence of the living God. As we sang out in our praise and worship tears streamed from my eyes - I could not control them - and my sandals came off.


      I grew up always “dressing up”- even just casually dressing up - to go to “church/worship”. I have no problem with people who wish to wear a suit/tie or dress, etc…, nor do I have a problem with people who want to wear jeans or khakis or capris, etc… What we need to remember is that “Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” Many in the church are like the pharisees - they look like whitewashed tombs - nice and beautiful on the outside, but on the inside they are all dried up and filled with no life!  May we all check our own hearts!

       

      I wonder if there is a dress code requirement for what we should be wearing when Jesus returns???

       

    14. kenny on Wed, August 03, 2005

      My, my, my-We sing and preach and teach that it is not about us and it is all about Him but we live like there is no other god but us.

    15. Vince Parks on Wed, August 03, 2005

      I’m grateful that we don’t have any written dress codes, and celebrate diversity as one of our core values.  I expect the staff to reflect the diversity of this body of believers, use common sense, but also not to offend.  Flip flops on the buildings and grounds staff - no way - dangerous.  Flip flops on a preschool teacher - no way - ever chased down a toddler or a roomful?  Flip flops hanging out with other staff or with students - sure, why not?  Flip flops last week when a faithful Greek Orthodox family mourning the suicide of their son came to our offices to plan his memorial service - no way.  What we’re wearing influences how people will interact with us.  We could not have consoled that family and planned a celebration of the life and eternal life of their Christian son as effectively if we were dressed in surfwear and flip flops.. (Which I’m looking forward to putting on at home this afternoon - it’s 95 or so here in Houston today.)

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