What Do You Do When the Vote To Keep You as Pastor is 499 to 237?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, March 10, 2008
- Viewed 59
- (34) comments so far
“We are a church in need of God’s healing,” said a statement released by deacon chair Kathy Madeja after today’s vote. “We will need to listen carefully to each other about the things which have divided us and brought us to this day.”
A members’ group, Friends for the Future of Broadway, called for the vote on Dr. Younger. The group argued that he had been an ineffective leader and had led the moderate church in too liberal a direction theologically.
“We respect the will of the majority and pray for the congregation’s healing, recovery and continued service to the community that befits a 125-year-old church,” said Robert Saul, spokesman for the group, in a statement.
But Mr. Saul’s statement also said that 300 people “have or want to leave” the church because of the past months’ turmoil. Mr. Saul declined comment on whether he would leave.
Dr. Younger asked the church to stick together.
“I hope that we will move forward and be the church together, and that others will come and share church with us,” he said. “Broadway is an amazing congregation that’s willing to talk about difficult issues. This is a church that challenges its members to think and serve.”
The church voted on Feb. 24, as a compromise, to have a directory with group photographs, as opposed to family photos.
FOR YOUR INPUT: The issue aside… if the vote to keep you was 499 to 237, what would you do? Stay and fight, or call it a day? Would it not be tough to lead when nearly 1/3 of everyone was on record as opposing your leadership.
Members of Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth voted Sunday to keep Brett Younger as pastor. The vote was 499 in favor of retaining him and 237 against, representing about a two-thirds majority. The historic downtown church has been in public controversy for months, first over whether a members' photo-directory would include gay couples, then over Dr. Younger's leadership.
Comments
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Ryan Imel on Mon, March 10, 2008
A big part of the problem, in any situation like this, is that the congregation is given voting rights. I’ve never understood why a church would want to turn toward giving the majority rule, but the democratic system just doesn’t work in a church (and it’s debatable whether it works elsewhere either).
So, in response to your question: I would avoid teaching/leading anywhere that would support a formal vote as to my competency. Being the church (read: sheep) means sometimes being led to do things that the majority won’t like. While I understand that majority votes are taken to “play it safe” when it comes to dangerous decisions, but honestly the majority could easily be wrong on many issues when, though the pastor isn’t popular, he is correct.
Peter Hamm on Mon, March 10, 2008
Somedays, I think I’d be lucky if two-thirds of our congregation wanted to keep ME…
Yeah, I’d stay.
Ryan on Mon, March 10, 2008
Congregational voting for their pastor is the only way to avoid tyranny. Do congregations make wrong choices? Absolutely. Congregations can and do err. There is no perfectly sanctified church. However, congregational votes are always a better and more Biblical option of just trusting a pastor who claims a divine right
Brett on Mon, March 10, 2008
I’m not bashing congregational voting but to say it is more biblical may be a stretch. Can anyone provide one example from the Bible where a church voted on its pastor?
Rick Holland on Mon, March 10, 2008
The fact is that the church votes every time they show up to worship or don’t show up! Every time they accept the leadership of the pastor or reject it - that is a vote.
Ryan on Mon, March 10, 2008
Regarding a Biblical basis for a congregational vote, I would point to passages such as Acts 6:3 and Titus 1:5.
In addition, I would point to the Biblical concept of the priesthood of all believers.
Now for the hard part, can you show me a biblical passage that supports a pastor calling himself?
That’s what I meant earlier when I wrote that congregational vote is the best Biblical option
.
paul on Mon, March 10, 2008
I agree with Ryan. And Rick is right… all congregations “vote.” But I’m glad I’m a part of a system where there is no vote, as such. And I’m not in the situation, so I don’t know what I would do. But I would tend to want to leave.
Gregg Lamm on Mon, March 10, 2008
Friends,
There has to be something in between the pastor having a “divine right” to continue shepherding the flock without input from the sheep, and leaving the decision up to a majority vote.
Evangelical Quakers (not the Universalist Quakers) have elder boards, and the pastor is one of the elders. When it comes to decisions such as whether the pastor is still “called by God” to shepherd and teach the flock, the elders lead a meeting in which everyone in the flock (not just “members”, but everyone who is actively involved) is invited to gather together for what is often called “a meeting for worship, discernment and consensus”.
And out of this atmosphere of worship and prayer people stand and vocalize their leadings in front of everyone else. No hiding behind a voters ballot here. The elders are free to both listen and participate in this meeting—and then they discern and vocalize how they sense the Holy Spirit is leading the flock—and then they move people either toward a decision, or toward a measurable season of waiting that will often also include corporate fasting. Then this process is repeated until it is clear how God is leading “the flock”.
Yes this process can take longer than a simple “vote”, where the anonymous, unanimous majority rules. But if the goal is for a flock to seek, find and follow God’s plans, then the extra time is worth it.
Consensus doesn’t mean that every single person ends up at the same place about the decision. But neither does it assume that the majority will always be right when discerning God’s plans. What the consensus process does hold as important is the sacredness of the unity of spiritual community.
Teaching a flock to do this spiritual work can be a challenge, but a good book to help you do this is “Practicing Discernment Together: Finding God’s Way Forward in Decision Making” and can be found at http://www.barclaypress.com. Godspeed.
read.think.pray.live.
Gregg
Jarsofme on Mon, March 10, 2008
Come on folks…do you actually think the major issue here is “voting.” (by the way - you can find all 3 major models of church ecclesiology in the NT, so be careful about saying one way is “right”) Anyway, I think it’s obvious that there are some major issues between the leadership of the church and the congregation of the church. Though I am not sure what is causing the distrust, but it probably has something to do with a view on Scripture and the perceived direction the church is headed as a result of that view.
By the way, when Paul told the Corinthians to treat the guy sleeping with his step-mom as an unbeliever - it’s interesting that he put it in the hands of the entire church to make that choice. He didn’t tell the elders (directly) to make that choice.
Seems like a place of the congregation “voting” to me.
Chris on Mon, March 10, 2008
Well, the congregation always gets to vote. Either they vote in a business meeting…or they vote with their wallet and presence. The fact is, you cannot mandate “followship” only model leadership.
Leonard on Mon, March 10, 2008
I would have to check my pride before I decided to stay. One real problem churches have is they do not like leaders. When a pastor begins to lead many people in a church get angry because they want a care taker not a leader. I would not stay in a church that only wanted a caretaker, it would go against my gifting.
RickW on Mon, March 10, 2008
The relationship between congregation and pastor is fluid, dynamic. The 30% saying “Nay” today can turn into your biggest supporters tomorrow.
I would stay until the Lord says go. Period.
CS on Mon, March 10, 2008
WWRWD? (What Would Rick Warren Do?)
In an article Rick Warren wrote about, “What to do when your church hits a plateau,” it would seem that in a case like this, “some people are going to have to die or leave,” before the church gets moving again.
Any thoughts? The article was at http://www.pastors.com/RWMT/default.asp?id=263&artid=4533&expand=1
—
CS
Thea McKee on Mon, March 10, 2008
Unfortunately, our congregants often leave pastors feeling that we are the dogs at a whistlers convention. The longer a member has been at a church, or the more money they give offers a false sense of empowerment to be in control.
Sadly, this is often the case with a newly ordained person or a minister who has been recently called to a church. I was once told that church charity stops at the front door. We are charitable to those outside, but often not to those in our fellowship or in leadership.
A true leader will avoid the need to politic and go running from whistle to whistle; but prayerfully chose the still small voice of the Holy Spirit. We must be diligent that the Whistlers do not drown Him out.
As far as leaving, if 2/3 of my congregation were calling for my ouster, I would ask for a week of time to “go up to the mountain to pray.” Ask the congregation—ALL of them—to be praying for and with you also. Spend some time in silence listening for that small voice of God. After spending that week in prayer there should be some clarity.
I have been there. I once asked the president of a congregation to fire me. I knew that I did not have the spiritual gifts needed to lead the congregation anymore. They needed an expertise that I simply did not posses. I allowed her to talk me out of it. The next eight months were hell on earth. Not only for me, but for my family, and for my church as well. And I only had 20 people who wanted me gone. 20 out of 200. I can’t imagine what having 2/3 of my congregation demonizing me would be like. Having 20 was bad enough.
David Andrus on Mon, March 10, 2008
Ok,
The issue is that the Pastor and 2/3rds of the congregation seem to believe that God’s Word teaches one system of belief while the other 1/3 hold to another belief system. Frankly, the 1/3 need to let it go and begin another place of meeting so that those in control can continue to practice their theology. Unfortunately, in our world today there are many leaders who are motivated by beliefs that reflect the sad condition of our world. It is obvious that the division created will not be erased as long as the two groups try to reside in the same location.
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