What if Your Church Voted Yesterday Whether or Not to Keep You?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, September 21, 2009
- Viewed 185
- (67) comments so far
Well, this did happen at the famous Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church. It seems a small group of people (included former pastor D. James Kennedy's daughter) were able to get more than enough Coral Ridge Members to sign a petition that called for a vote on whether or not to keep Kennedy's replacement, Pastor Tullian Tchividjian. The vote did not go their way. The congregation voted 940-422 to keep Tchividjian (who I think should at least get a new last name that I can spell... I mean... that's a worse name to spell than Groeschel).
According to the Miami Herald:
Tchividjian was named senior pastor of the Fort Lauderdale mega-church six months ago. He has come under scrutiny ever since he vowed to the set the church on a different path from that charted by his predecessor, D. James Kennedy, who built Coral Ridge into a religious and political powerhouse on a bedrock of Christian conservatism.
Church members cast ballots at a closed 11 a.m. meeting, and backed Tchividjian by a vote of 940-422, a margin of about 69 percent to 31 percent.
Tchividjian, 37, doesn't preach politics. He is more apt to focus on specific Biblical passages than on the news du jour, prefers drum sets to an organ, and has chosen podcasting over broadcasting.
His approach alarmed some members of the church, who preferred Kennedy's traditional services and his willingness to tackle topics such as same-sex marriage and abortion.
Six church members, including Kennedy's daughter, Jennifer Kennedy Cassidy, were banned from the premises in August after they distributed fliers criticizing the new pastor on church grounds.
By Sept. 9, more than 400 members had petitioned for Tchividjian's removal. A group of church elders then called for Sunday's meeting.
They brought in a member of the national governing body of Presbyterian churches to moderate the members-only meeting. Coral Ridge has about 2,000 active members.
Ten spoke for Tchividjian's removal, according to spokesman Mark DeMoss. They faulted him for not maintaining the legacy of Kennedy and for altering traditions, such as calling for visitors to come to Jesus at the end of every sermon.
Ten spoke in favor of keeping Tchividjian, noting that church membership is increasing and that the congregation should stay united.
Tchividjian did not attend the meeting, but he said his piece during the early-morning service, when he warned the congregation against choosing to honor one man instead of choosing to honor God.
So... what would you do if YOUR church voted on whether you stayed or whether you would go? What if they did this yesterday?
1. What do you think the vote would be?
2. If it was not conclusive that most people wanted you there, would you stay or leave? (Is the result of the vote important to you?
3. What would you do to seek out and work with those who voted for your demise?
(I'd love to hear your comments below)
Also... I'd love to hear your opinion on this: By my math; nearly 1/3 of all the members who cared to vote, voted to expel the pastor. How do you lead with 1/3 of 'active' members wishing you weren't there? How does it change your style of leadership? Do you 'go for it' and take the vote as confirmation of your direction? Or do you pull back, and try to get the other third on board? Or do you say... 1/3 is too many dissenters: "I'm outta here". Those seem to be the three options:
1. Push forward
2. Pull back
3. Leave
What would you do?
Todd
Comments
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Tom Cox on Mon, September 21, 2009
To Larry:
I’m not going to defend what is happening in that congregation. However, to assume that they have an unbiblical form of church government shows your unfamiliarity with their polity. See http://www.pcanet.org before throwing the baby out with the bathwater…
Richard Bane on Mon, September 21, 2009
I think 2/3 is a very good vote considering that the old guard was doing everything they could to make him leave. If you can get 2/3 of a vote in the midst of a church fight that speaks well in my opinion.
Consider this! they wanted a democratic vote and lost by 2/3 so should the 2/3 allow the 1/3 to rule their church? Possibly this pastor is really being a pastor and preaching the truth in a relevant way to win new people.
Dr. Kennedy was a great man and I admire his work for the Lord but his daughter and those who want Dr. Kennedy should understand he is gone to his reward.
Larry on Mon, September 21, 2009
To Tom,
I am familiar with Presbyterian government as I have served in a Presbyterian church on staff and had to set through too many “Sessions.” You mistake what I am talking about with the Presbyterian form of eldership: Differences include:
Appointed versus elected elders
Lifetime call as opposed to termed offices
There are other difference but I know space is limited. I am not writing to argue but to make the point that we must (regardless of our various denomination or tradition) ask if our government can truly be demonstrated from the scriptures. Democracy can not. Popularly elected boards can not. Rotating board can not. None of these are seen anywhere in the Scriptures.
Tom on Mon, September 21, 2009
I’ve been voted out. One book I read said nearly 50% of pastors are voted out (at least once) during their career. The problem with inflated membership rolls (Coral Ridge has 2K), is the carnal can grab the disgruntled and nursing home members back for a vote. I had college kids drive home to vote their parents’ way. I got 67% in favor of keeping me. Within six months, the 33% left of their own accord and took over leadership of a smaller neighboring church. I stayed six more years. But my ministry was damaged.
Russell Mckinney on Mon, September 21, 2009
I didn’t enjoy this story, but I have enjoyed reading the comments concerning it. Some excellent points have been made. I once agreed to become the pastor of a church on a 75% vote. I hoped the other 25% might see my heart and come along after a while, but they never did. I stayed three-and-a-half years. But here are the key questions: Why did I take the church and why did I stay when the water got hot? The answer to both is: I did it because through much prayer God made it clear to me that’s what He wanted me to do.
I don’t mean to sound pious or naive, but if Tullian (easier to spell than the last name) truly believes that God wants him there, he should stay. The book of Acts is filled with instances where the Holy Spirit was the voice who guided God’s men into God’s will for their ministries. Sometimes this led to those men facing heated opposition. The Spirit hasn’t died out recently. He still speaks when preachers are willing to listen. And, yes, He can get highly specific when the situation calls for it.
As for the changes Tullian has brought to Coral Ridge, let’s not pretend that James Kennedy wasn’t pretty cutting edge himself with his t.v. and radio ministries, Moral Majority, Center For Reclaiming America, etc. He was just as out of the box as Tullian; it’s just that he was out of a different box. It seems almost hypocritical to Kennedy’s legacy to tie Tullian’s hands concerning changes.
J. D. Duncan on Mon, September 21, 2009
STAY! 6 mons is not enough time to determine if this thing is going to fly. I think Pastor T. knew the potential for being scarificial lamb.
It was truely stated that it usually needs two pastoral changes to follow someone like Kennedy or Criswell. I say weather the storm alittle longer. Impliment changes slower. The change agents in the church need to step to the plate.
STAY UNLESS it is taking a toll on wife and children.
STAY LONG ENOUGH to write the text book on Church Transitions.
Bob on Mon, September 21, 2009
Going as far as it did, it probably means his ministry has been severely hurt, curtailed, and damaged. Will he be able to recover? Moses had a similar situation, and he did. But, are we all like Moses? Probably not. I would find it extremely difficult to carry out a vision of God’s leading when the opposition was from within, and it was obvious (because of THE VOTE) not much would be changing. There are too many other things God wants his gifted leaders to accomplish. Unless God intervenes (remember Korah?) I would fast, pray and follow the wisdom of my peers as to where I go next.
Oliver on Mon, September 21, 2009
in response to larry, actually didn’t the apostles choose (elect) a replacement for Judas, and in acts the church is told to choose from among them, (again elect). Not sure election is invalid in church. But the point isn’t that in america we see the church as in institution, the church has become an institution. The only true reformation will be when we abandon completely the institutional church and start doing what the first century church did. living out christianity, not some brand of politics.
Pat on Mon, September 21, 2009
Larry-
Amen on congregational voting! Unfortunately, that�s another giant a church would have to slay that I�m sure would most certainly result in a split.
Larry on Mon, September 21, 2009
Oliver,
You are exactly right! The APOSTLES appointed the replacement. In the case of the seven, the church was solving a problem and the Apostles told them to pick 7 men. The final authority for setting those men in was still with the apostles and they were not a governing board but a group of servants… deacons if you will.
In reference to the above article, the question I have is why the elders of the church would allow division and votes to continue? Were the elders on boared to have the pastor fired? If not, where in scripture is the authority to fire the pastor vested in a congregational vote? Simply put… elders are there to represent the will of God to the people not the will of the people to God.
Erich Abraham on Mon, September 21, 2009
This issue is more complez than just not keeping the legacy alive. You hire a new man to do old things, but he is not old - he is new. You hire a man who’s experience is outside of the norm at Coral Ridge, feathers are ruffled. A large church like this needs transitioning which is outside of Tullian’s expertise. The problem is administrative, not pastoral. The blame lies with the Calling Comm., not the new pastor. However, it appears that Tullian is in over his head. He needs to humbly back off and enjoin the church to see his deficiencies and ask for the Elders guidance. Humility is something that he has to face very publically. Being Billy’s grandson is a prideful thing thrust upon him by birth and the media. We all need to pray for this man of God.
David on Mon, September 21, 2009
Interesting timing on this post, as I was actually voted in as Senior Pastor in my church yesterday.
It is a sad statement that a church is so divided over this issue. Why didn’t these individuals voice their opinions when the church originally called the new pastor. Was he upfront with how he was going to do ministry. If so then why complain now? If you knew what you were going to get, why are you now mad that you are getting just that. Now if he had deliberately misled the church and then changed his style/approach after getting the position that is an integrity issue and should be addressed. But to whine and complain because some is different then the last pastor doesn’t help the gospel.
Charley Blom on Mon, September 21, 2009
There are a number of points about the situation at Coral Ridge Pres. First, it like many of our mega-churches are led by personalities. Following a personality, especially one with years of leading a particular church is tough to say the least. Second, Pastor Kennedy was cutting edge in his time, just like many of the other older leaders in the Evangelical movement. He stepped out and started a church out of the box for his denomination. But what was cutting edge 30 years ago, becomes tradition today. Witness the worship wars over music that was cool when i was young, (over 30 yrs ago) and music that is cool today.
There is more however in this little morality play. The points made by many on the difficulty of leading Coral Ridge in a new direction are right on. But like all churches leadership change and new directions are not all based on theolgoy or age. We also have the dynamics of a system, a family system that draws the players to respond in many surprising ways. Pastor Tchividjian is caught in the middle of a full blown family system event. It is not surprising that Pastor Kennedy’s daughter is in the mix, there are some family stories that for her are not finished.
One comment, although Pastor Kennedy’s death came suddenly, he could have helped the process of change in his church many years ago when he realized that he wouldn’t always be pastor of this church. He could have begun to lay the ground work for a new pastor.
So how to answer Todd’s questions.
1. Pastor Tchividjian needs to re-consider his call to Coral Ridge, if he stays he may need to think of himself as an intentional interim pastor who is to help the congregation move from a personality based, traditional system to a new dynamic church for the years ahead. I think if he stays it will be a very difficult time.
2. If Pastor Tchividjian leaves and goes back to the church he was planting, it will become very important for the elder board and the denominational leaders to help Coral Ridge work through two major losses in less than six months. It would be wise of them to do what they didn’t do in the first place and bring in an intentional interim pastor to help the transistion.
3. If this was me, and I had a 1/3 negative vote, I would stay, but conceive of my ministry as an interim position and do all I could to make the next pastor be the best pastor and lead the church into a new phase of ministry.
Rob Yanok on Mon, September 21, 2009
You as the pastor would have to ask yourself the question whether or not you feel called to that church or area, so that would determine if you would stay or go. If you felt called to that church then you stand your ground according to the scriptures and let the disgruntled individuals leave, or you simply resign and walk away to avoid any such division within the congregation and trouble for your family. If you chose to walk away, God may end up giving it back to you or give you something better.
Johnelder on Mon, September 21, 2009
About three years ago a movement was started to remove me as the pastor. It is a smaller church (about 50 at the time), and the people moving hardest to remove me were hurt by some things I had done and said. I was ignorant of the vast majority of the problem for years, until the effort to remove me. Some of their concerns were legitimate, and others were the results of misunderstandings/miscommunications (partly my fault, for sure).
I was told by one of the board members that there were “many” people who were upset with me. The truth was that there were about 6, when it was all said and done.
Our denomination requires that the board must vote first to allow a vote to remove a pastor; if the majority rejects the motion, it never goes to the congregation. So our District Superintendent came and met with the board. When the vote was taken, only one board member voted against me, so I didn’t have to face a congregational vote.
I’m confident I would have received a very strong majority, and I would probably have accepted a 2/3 majority vote to retain my job (but not to take it initially).
During this time, my heart was very heavy, and I was hurting quite badly. But I was convinced that God had called me to this church, and that my task was not finished. I was also convinced that God would be with me, to carry me through the fire, and that I would be a stronger person/leader for it.
I learned some things about myself that I did not like to learn, and God has been helping me to mature in those areas.
So while I wouldn’t wish the circumstance on anyone, I am grateful to God for what He did in me through it.
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