What’s Your Church’s Biggest Strength: Management or Leadership?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, March 10, 2008
- Viewed 346
- (34) comments so far
The percentage of churches in decline is America is substantial. (I’ve heard as high as 90%!) It’s my hypothesis that each of these churches (and if you take the conservative church count in the country of 200,000 churches, 90% would be a whopping 180,000 American churches!) have to be ‘doing things right’ to some degree. Doing things right means things like conducting weekend services, maintaining property and facilities, making payroll, and caring for their attenders. In essence, as long as there are still people attending most churches, the churches, by and large, are ‘doing things right’, at least from a management standpoint.
But what about the other 10% of churches in America that are growing and vibrant? Could it be that they have moved beyond ‘doing things right’ to ‘doing the right things’? Every single one of the growing churches I’ve seen are very outwardly focused. They reach out and specifically target reaching their communities. They move beyond ‘management’ to dare to try new things; new programs; and new approaches. They are not afraid of change. They are not afraid to confront the culture. The are leaders. And the result is a growing and community-changing church.
FOR YOUR INPUT: What’s your church’s strength? Management or Leadership?
Leadership and management guru Peter Drucker once said, “Management is doing things right; Leadership is doing the right things.” When I read that recently, I thought that this statement could be very true in today’s American church. Here’s my theory: Could it be that while most churches are ‘doing things righ’t, a smaller group of churches are ‘doing the right things’?
Comments
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Tye Male on Mon, March 10, 2008
Leonard Lee said:
Far too many churches are hoping that the good old days will come back, instead of figuring out how to engage this culture.
That is what I was trying to say earlier. I couldn’t agree more.
Todd - You go man. Jesus constantly engaged the culture by doing the right things, not doing things right - just ask the Pharisees.
Great subject today. Thanks!
Keith S on Mon, March 10, 2008
I believe the biggest miss in almost all churches is the ability to manage the organization (the local body of believers).
Those that say they do a good job of managing their church have church blindness and/or a totally skewed picture of what management is.
The most biblically sound church is the one where the leadership understands that the growth and stability of the local body they are accountable for is dependent totally on understanding their role as steward leadership in Gods church as directed by God.
Growth does not come from management or local leadership; the success of both come from our accountability and to the degree in which we disire and obey the direction of the leadership head of the Church, Jesus Christ.
PrSheepherder on Mon, March 10, 2008
Thanks, Todd for taking the risk of allowing a secular source to provoke the thinking of church leaders. (I love conversations in the vernacular, don’t you?)
Fellow bloggers:
Todd’s presenting question invites church leaders to delve deeper into matters like defining the right things and identifying how to do them right. To answer Todd’s question without going deeper is to commit the secular equivalent of proof-texting of scripture.
If you had a conversation with Drucker or those who have taken his work into the voluntary sector (check out Frances Hesselbein’s work and writings), you’d find them agreeing that both leadership and management are important. The need is to know which is which, not to confuse one with the other, and to apply both.
And as Frances herself would tell you (as she’s told me in our times of working together) , answering the primary question correctly (What is our mission?” ) is the starting point for discussing questions like the one Todd is proposing today.
As a student of both sacred writ and secular writings (particularly in the area of leadership and management) since (egads!) the 1970s, I’ve gleaned considerable, church-applicable wisdom from encounters with Drucker and others who have applied his work in the voluntary sector. They’ve been profoundly influenced by the Judeo-Christian scriptures.
Whethr it’s Drucker or any another source, the key here is to consider the source and to test the source’ s thinking against The Source (The word of God, including but not limited to those texts attributed to the Apostle Peter.)
Speaking of which ... Is anyone up to a discuasion of leadership, management and the “right thing” re: the episodes of judaizing in the Acts of the Apostles?
Pr. Sheepherder
John Burton on Mon, March 10, 2008
This issue demands that we really revisit the primary purpose of the church. What are its biblical purposes? This will help us with the issue of leadership (where are we leading toward) and management (what needs to be done to ensure we progress).
A key issue here is that of vision. So many leaders and pastors are in their roles because they are gifted to teach or nurture or disciple… but so few have precise vision.
What exactly has God revealed that they are to give themselves to? Write it down. Clearly. What geography? What focus? What is the goal?
So many church planters tend to want to launch their church from Acts 2:43 instead of Acts 2:1. Jesus detailed the process in Acts 1.
So, again, what’s the primary purpose and what’s the specific vision. That answer will demand wild leadership and strong management… though, I’d sacrifice management much quicker than I would leadership.
Billy on Mon, March 10, 2008
I suspect that some churches are too quick to chalk up their growth to ‘visionary leadership’ when it could very well be good management riding a demographic wave.
Even a management-oriented pastor can post strong numbers in a high-growth residential area, Even so, plenty of churches still find a way to plateau or decline even in areas where everything else is growing.
Randy Cobb on Tue, March 11, 2008
Grand thoughts on the macro level, now let’s talk about it on the micro. For those considering themselves among the 10%, let’s take it personal.
Of the 10% who are leading “the Church,” are they “doing things right” as they “do the right things?”
In other words, is the Church, once again, following the world’s standards [i.e. of “management”], or are we living into biblical principles and standards regarding “management” and in doing so setting the pace for the world to follow?
Let us not be so concerned with what we do that forget how we do it can be just as important. Both are an opportunity to honor Christ and be a witness for Him.
As we let the Bible be our guide for determining “leadership” let’s let it be our primary resource for “management” as well. Having integrity and being fully-Christ-honoring means doing both.
pmp68 on Tue, March 11, 2008
I think my church does the right things, but doesn’t necessarily always do things right. Administration is an area in which I think we still have a ways to go. Working in corporate America, I have learned a lot and quite frankly, we can’t throw the baby out with the bath water. There are some good business practices that can be adapted for use in God’s kingdom. Paying attention to the details is one of the key areas that can often make a difference. In business, neglecting the details can often result in costly mistakes for a business. Why wouldn’t we think that neglecting the details would be just as important, if not more, in the kingdom God?
Jeremy on Tue, March 11, 2008
I have been a longtime reader of MMI, but rarely contribute to its forums. I felt I had to chime in, because this topic is close to my heart.
God has called me back to a book that has been on my shelf for years, “Developing the Leader Within You,” by John Maxwell. He, too says that prosperous businesses (churches included) are headed by Leaders, not Managers.
People want to be a part of something successful, and follow people that are successful. We see this in Hollywood, Nashville, etc. But managers are only being followed because of their titles, and not success. That is why the decline takes place. They are nothing more than a title, and after the inital “wow factor,” the title gets old.
But Leaders that have attained the title, established relationships, produced results, developed their people, and have gained the respect of their people are successful and have followers for life. (Picture the Verizon network guys) When that is established, people want to be a part of something and have ownership in a successful business or church.
Now, to answer your question, I am a youth pastor at a church with a manager for a pastor. It is hard. Managers typically lack vision, or at least what it takes to carry out that vision. I, myself am very vision-oriented, but have found myself hitting a ceiling, so to speak, because my Manager will only allow me to go to a certain point. I am committed to the church and love the community and the church, but I am saddened to see the church going this direction. In fact if anyone has any words of wisdom for me, I am open to receive.
Jeremy
Will on Wed, March 12, 2008
To Jeremy:
I posted earlier my critique of Todd Rhoades’s article, which stands uncorrected. My uncouragement for you is to stop reading John Maxwell and other of these type of gurus because this is where your problem lies. Sadly, for Todd Rhoades and many I’ve seen respond to this article do not realize that they, themselves, are in that category of serving in churches that are stricken with the deadly disease that has infested evangelicalism.
Jeremy, let me ask you to ask yourself what specifically is it that you feel burdened about your senior pastor? Is he not preaching and teaching the Gospel faithfully and expositionally? Is he not leading the church toward biblical fidelity and obedience?
I guess another way to ask this is: what are the results you are seeing in your church causes you distress? Is your church family living unholy and disobedient lives? Is your church family ignorant of the truths of Scripture?
The problem with Todd Rhoades, John Maxwell, and these type of individuals is that they assume that God promises the growth of His local church. And that’s the deadly disease that has infested in the hearts and minds of many. What God is more concerned about is that glory of His kingdom. I would submit to you to reevaluate your concerns and see how it aligns with Scripture.
God does not call for neither leaders nor managers to lead or manage the church. Rather God calls for preachers who will proclaim the Gospel message. God calls for theologians who will guard careful doctrinal truths of Scripture.
Remember that it is the gospel message alone about Jesus Christ’s atoning work on the Cross that is the power of the church for salvation (Rom 1:16). Only the Gospel message preached and taught faithfully is power for the church. Todd Rhoades, John Maxwell, Oprah Winfrey, and all these others who emphasize heavily on either corporate leadership or psychological therapists are the ones further spreading the deadly disease that suffocates and kills the church. How? More and more theologically-minded and Gospel-preaching and Gospel-oriented pastors are more and more being replaced by vision-oriented practitioners.
There’s alot more to say on this matter, but let me defer you to one book that will help you on your way: James Montgomery Boices’s Whatever Happened To The Gospel Of Grace? The book itself, let alone the bibliography of other source material, will, I believe, help you with your concerns to see why ministries like Leadership Network and practitioners like Todd Rhoades are misleading the church: by coming up with wrong solutions that comes from asking the wrong question of: “Leaders vs. Managers.” Unintentional, I’m sure Todd Rhoades and John Maxwell and others are. But misleading, nonetheless…
Phil DiLernia on Wed, March 12, 2008
Will:
While I agree with your seeming premise to Jeremy that we sometimes critique leaders or leadership in the wrong manner that does not mean that Jeremy doesn’t have some potentially legitimate concerns.
For instance, Jeremy may fee led to be more aggressive in his outreach to the teen community where he lives and his senior pastor may not have such a vision or worse yet may be afraid to ruffle the feathers of Mr. or Mrs. “so and so”, or may like things “just the way they are.” In either case that could frustrate someone like Jeremy. In fact, too many pastors have been “program oriented” for far too long rather than “gift oriented” which I believe is more biblical and Godly.
What I mean is this, if Jeremy’s Senior Pastor is blessed to have a Youth Pastor with a Vision to reach more youth is it possible that this Vision of spreading God’s truths to more and more people (Matthew 28) can only come from God because Satan would NEVER promote the spreading of the Gospel. Then someone who is being prodded by God’s Spirit must deal with this seeming contradicion of Biblical purpose. In an example like this you would have a Senior Pasor with a lack of Leadership and Vision and this will work against the promoting of the Gospel.
Your premise that as long as the Senior Pastor is teaching the “right stuff” then everything is OK is way off. The problem that MANY pastors have is that they teach the right stuff ... people like Jeremy respond to the prodding of God’s Spirit ... and then the TEACHER QUELCHES WHAT THE SPIRIT IS DOING IN RESPONSE TO THEIR TEACHING! That is disasterous to the church.
And PLEASE don’t become un-Christlike by comparing John Maxwell and Todd Rhoades to Oprah Winfrey. John and Todd promote principles that are based on scripture and if they use examples from the non-church world what’s the difference? Wouldn’t it be great if there were more examples to use IN THE CHURCH? Oprah on the other hand promotes Humanism and Self-Righteousness. Please don’t do Satan’s bidding by putting John and Todd in Oprah’s category. That’s shameful and they are both owed an apology.
Finally you stated that John and Todd’s problem is that they promote the idea that God promises to grow His local church. My understanding of scripture moves me to believe that God does promise to grow His local church IF HIS PEOPLE ARE OBEDIENT. Jesus says that He is building His Kingdom and Hell will not overcome His building. Jesus tells us that we should go into the world and make disciples of His - baptizing them and teaching them to obey (which includes going out and making more disciples!) The book of Acts tells of God’s Spirit building His Church (and so and so many were added to His church, and more were added to His church DAILY!) I’m not sure what scriptural evidence you have that demonstrates that God is NOT concerned about the growth of His Kingdom (both numerically AND in Christ-likeness.)
That’s why the church needs Biblical wisdom AND Visionary Leadership!
Peter Hamm on Wed, March 12, 2008
Will,
1. Why can’t we have visionary leadership AND good sound biblical teaching. I’ve seen plenty of good biblical preacher/teachers who were poor leaders. I want to serve in a church under a Senior Pastor who is both. (Fortunately, I do.)
2. Sorry, but I find no incompatibility between Maxwell and Boice.
3. Being hyper-critical of Todd is probably not the best strategy here, being that this is his blog. Perhaps there is another forum somewhere…
Tye Male on Wed, March 12, 2008
Will - you sure have a lot of audacity. That’s for sure!
Leonard on Wed, March 12, 2008
Will,
Intentionally or unintentionally you seem to be eliminating the power of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, the response to the Gospel, to the word, the gifting to preach it, to understand it all comes from the Holy Spirit.
To say the scripture must be taught only in an expositional way is extra biblical thinking and makes you as guilty as Oprah. To assume the church should be a holy huddle is not really all that Biblical either. Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the world should be fixed upon our hearts and mind… My communities, counties, country and world should be continually on my mind. Why? Because they are on God’s mind.
Is God not glorified when people come to him in faith, finding forgiveness and freedom from sin? You post if filled with assumptions about Todd, Maxwell and others. Be careful about that.
Peter Hamm on Wed, March 12, 2008
Also,
I’m so glad that Jesus gave us the example of sound preaching by only preaching expositional sermons.
Oh wait… never mind…
Eric Joppa on Wed, March 12, 2008
I would like to respond to 2 commenters
The first is Jeremy.
My friend, You and I are birds of a feather. I, too, am a youth Pastor who is very vision oriented, and am under the leadership of a manager. While I love him, and know the goodness of his heart, he lacks the ability to achieve the vision he has. As you said, it is frustrating. If you are truly committed to the church, that means you must be committed to your Pastor. If you focus on your ministry, your students, and the vision God gave you, then you will find satisfying fruit. However, if you are having a hard time following his leadership, you may need to move on to another place.
Will,
I appreciate that you have an opinion about Todd, and John Maxwell, but I have a question regarding your thoughts on leadership…
What exactly do you do for a living? What is your expertise on leadership in the church?
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