When Christian Marketing Collides with Family Values
- Posted on February 08, 2006
- Viewed 340 times
- (47) comments
I stopped dead in my tracks when my eyes saw this picture on the cover of Christian Retailing Magazine this month.
Am I a fuddy-duddy?
I know that the word 'sucks' has gained wide-spread acceptance in the Christian community as of late. Heck, I even have a link to ChurchMarketingSucks.com here on this blog.
But it's not a word that I honestly use much; and am still startled sometimes when those around me throw it around as casually as they do.
Let me just say this: I don't allow my kids to use the word 'sucks'. And I definitely wouldn't allow them to wear it on a T-shirt.
It could just by my traditional, fundy background. It might be that I'm not keen on all the hip young talk. Or it might be that I actually remember what the word 'sucks' meant when I was in high school back in the eighties.
My kid's friends say it freely (I know because they've say it around me). But I've tried to key my kids on to a 'higher standard' that I expect from them. I hope they oblige their father.
And now, a "Christian" T-shirt comes out to help me along in my parenting. Hell Sucks. (or as they promote it on their website H***Sucks. They're description:
"We had to do it. White lettering on black is simple and straight-forward. We also carry one with red lettering on a black tee with red stitching. Now, if we can only get up the nerve to say it!"
So... am I a fuddy duddy? How do you adjust when even the Christian culture goes a step too far (in your or my opinion?)
What rules do you have for language in your family? in your youth group? in your church? (the other words that we hear ALL THE TIME that we don't allow are things like 'freakin', 'frickin', or 'friggin'.) Those words are off limits at our house (at least with the kids around!)
Love to hear your input on this one!
Todd
Comments
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Mark O. Wilson on Wed, February 08, 2006
You’re not a fuddy duddy. I agree with you. It reminds me of the time I let an intern preach his first sermon on Sunday morning. In his message, he was trying to make a point with some football illustration—and he said, “The Vikings suck. . .”
There was an audible gasp in the sanctuary,and I don’t think anybody over 40 heard another word he said after that.
We had two services at that time, and between them, I pulled him aside, “Listen, you really mustn’t say the Vikings suck. That’s really offensive.”
But there was one redeeming factor—he didn’t say that about the Packers!
Kevin B. on Wed, February 08, 2006
I don’t get the point. Who is the shirt designed for, Christians or the lost? I really think we are becoming more and more irrelevant to those outside the church.
Todd, I’m with you on this. I don’t use the word or allow my kids either
ME on Wed, February 08, 2006
I’m with you, Todd—I remember what it meant way back when, too. And frankly, I think that’s what it still means, regardless of how cavalierly (is that a word?) it is used today. Sometimes I think Christians do/say such things just to invite others (Christians?) to take issue with it, and so they can argue back and try prove some point (what, I’m not quite sure).
I’m not an “in-your-face” type when it comes to evangelism, but somehow I still think a black tee with white letters that read somethign like, “jesus” or “jesuslovesyou” or “youmatter…tojesus” would ultimately have a much greater impact on the unbelievers who see it.
Just my two cents…
Mark
dan ohlerking on Wed, February 08, 2006
i just posted something with a link to churchmarketingsucks and i felt a little odd typing it out cuz we don’t say it either and for the same reasons as you, todd.
i actually have a little more trouble with stuff that is what i understand “profanity” to be - misusing words that should have tremendous value and devaluing their meaning (diffusing their importance). that’s why GD will never be acceptable in my home. and why to me h*** used out of context or in a hotter than h*** way will also not be acceptable. if something is hotter, then hell isn’t quite so bad, huh?
it also goes to the use of “i’m starved” and “i’m dying of thirst” and stuff like that. my family is very involved in work with AIDS orphans and i don’t want my kids’ memories of seeing real starvation and dying to be tainted by something like needing a glass of gatorade or something.
i guess where some of the other words we don’t use (like the one in question in this post) and the big vulgar one and other crude ones are in my estimation is just that - crude and vulgar and unnecessary to have flying around my house. there’s no need for them. there’s other words that can be used if we need to express a thought - even if it needs a little more kick to express how strong we feel.
there’s simply better words than these.
bishopdave on Wed, February 08, 2006
Does anyone actually have experience with a Christian t-shirt playing a major role in the salvation of another? I only find them to be useful in identifying ourselves and reminding ourselves, “OK, I’ve got the Cross Training shirt on today, let’s not snap at the Burger King chick if she forgets the cheese on the whopper.” Testimonies, please, of those formerly unchurched/lostwho were positively affected by a Christian t-shirt that played a major role in moving them toward Christ.
Matt on Wed, February 08, 2006
Interesting post. I’m 22, on a church staff, and am quite guilty of using both “sucks” and “freakin/friggin/etc.” Now, for me, these are euphamisms that I have unconciously adopted after becoming a Christian because my mouth used to be a little dirty before. My parents cussed like sailors and despite their threats those words became part of my normal vocabulary.
I’m kind of torn over the issue of whether or not these words should be in my vocabulary. There is just so much more emphasis and meaning when I say something “sucked” than when I say something “stinked.” I realize the same could be said of contemporary cus words…but even some of them were intentionally developed as euphamisms for even earlier curses and now have simply taken their place as the present curse. Round and round we go.
Now I would never use these words in a sermon (if I preached)...but only because I know some older generations assign a different meaning to those words and it would be disrespectful to them even if those my age wouldn’t even blink.
I also completely understand parents telling their kids not to use certain euphamisms like suck. I may even find myself doing that one day. But I would offer that context is a HUGE pretext for what I say. In other words, I choose not to use certain words when talking with my grandparents that I could care less about using with my friends. My grandma is insulted by the word “poop” if that gives you any frame of reference. Do you have an issue with “poop”, Todd? hehe.
But this same generation (at least in my family) is also offended by using ANY word, proper or improper, that refers to “certain body parts.” ANY.
I think curses will always be around and will be different for different generations. But changing your speech to honor another’s context is, in my opinion, a way of honoring God. Did that make sense?
Context. Context. Context.
Matt on Wed, February 08, 2006
After all, Todd. You used the word “Heck” in your original article. Just another euphamism.
Todd Rhoades on Wed, February 08, 2006
Exactly… heck, gosh, gosh dang, all ephamism. That is true.
Don’t have trouble with the word poop. Another big word I hear teens say all the time is ‘crap’. Doesn’t bother me as much; but still; not a nice sounding word.
Todd
Todd Rhoades on Wed, February 08, 2006
I have a sister-in-law that says Oh Shite (long i sound). For some reason that always cracks me up.
(She also says ‘bat out of heck’
Go figure.
Todd
Matt on Wed, February 08, 2006
Heh.
I can’t believe I forgot crap. I use that all the time not even realizing.
I know several people who watch sci-fi shows like Farscape and Battlestar Galactica where each show’s “world” has completely different curses and slang. I’ve always thought that was a clever way of getting around censors. But it gets kinda scary for me when these people actually start using that same show’s language. I just can’t take them seriously. heh.
bishopdave on Wed, February 08, 2006
Todd,
Tell your sister-in-law to say, “ Shiite.”
Then she can tell everyone they’re just full of radical Islamic ideas.
Ian on Wed, February 08, 2006
Todd,
Out of curiosity how do condone endorsing churchmarketingsucks.com after this post?
Samuel on Wed, February 08, 2006
The thing that bugs me about this t-shirt is not the “sucks” part, rather it’s the lack of seriousness when approaching the topic of “hell”. I believe this t-shirt, hellsucks, shows a far bigger problem in our culture in our ignorance towards the arch-nemesis of our faith.
Prodding and making fun of the devil and or his future dwelling is far from humorous…much less, far from actually educating those about hell.
As for the word “sucks”....not my favorite word to use, but nevertheless I use it.
Storm7 on Wed, February 08, 2006
Ok…i’m of the genration of sucks, Friggin, ETC. the shirt does not bother m, because the word has change in context from a couple of generations. some words change from good to bad, like the term for a bundle of sticks and a homosexual, or being happy and gay. The shirt of for a their generation, as a attention getter, its not ment for my parents, but its a bold way for students to express thier faith in thier way, not in our Tradionial ways. thier are alot of stories in the Bible that would be controversial t-shirts, like Jesus Saves Whores”..ok tha’s alitte extreme, but this genration is communicating differnt, we can help clean up some of that using our lense of experince or embrassed studnets expressing thier faith in a world that has such a wide spectrum of vaules, beiefs, ETC. so in short, the shirt rocks!
~Storm7
Todd Rhoades on Wed, February 08, 2006
I’m not really condoning it… I do think they post some really good things there… at least things that I find interesting.
It’s not a website that I would recommend to my kids; nor is it a word that I, personally, would include in any of my website names. And if they were selling T-Shirts, I’d pass.
They also address this issue at their website:
Some people take issue with our use of the word ‘sucks’, and we understand their concerns. Growing up, some on our team weren’t even allowed to use the word, and our moms still don’t like it.
Looking to the Bible, we don’t find a list of ‘naughty’ words to stay away from. In Ephesians 4:29, Paul admonishes us to watch the way we talk. This doesn’t refer to specific words, but to the character of what we say. Looking through the book of Job and the book of Psalms, there are some pretty choice words used by men of God. In Job 3:8, Job says “May those who are good at cursing curse that day” (MSG). There’s plenty of precedence when it comes to being authentic in our emotions and feelings—that includes the words we use.
Which is exactly what we’re doing with the name Church Marketing Sucks.
We’re being authentic. We’re being real. We’re doing the same thing we’re asking the church to do when it comes to communicating and marketing who they are.
Profanity is culturally and contextually defined. There’s nothing inherently bad about any word. In our changing culture previously profane words are losing their original unwholesome associations. ‘Suck’ no longer references a sexual act in today’s context. Instead, it means something disagreeable or offensive (some might say our defense of the word ‘suck’ sucks). Likewise you could be just as profane and unwholesome using clinical language—it’s the context that makes the difference.
In the end we’re trying to help the church. We have better things to do than argue word choice, and we think the church does, too.
Many recall a familiar message by Tony Campolo where he uses the four-letter “s” word. Iterations exist all over the place (including the Internet), but the context goes something like “[This many] children have died of hunger today and you don’t give a s—t! In fact, you are more concerned with the fact that I said ‘s—t’ than [this many] children died of hunger.”
While this story may be a little harsh to those of you who don’t like our word choice, the point remains. Too often the church gets distracted by lesser things and misses the point. Our point is that church marketing is lame and needs some help. We’re using strong language to get your attention and make that point, but the point isn’t our word choice—it’s church marketing.
Read through the site. We hope what we’re doing pleases God and is helping churches around the world, and that isn’t lessened by a word thought to be vulgar once upon a time. If you don’t think so, we apologize for offending you.
In fact, we understand your concern and have made an alternate url available: ChurchMarketingStinks.com. It will redirect to ChurchMarketingSucks.com, but if you have a problem printing the word ‘sucks’ we’d encourage you to use this less offensive alternative.
—-
So, actually, I think they’re using it’s shock value to get some attention of the people they’re trying to reach. Seems to be working for them; but again it’s not something I’d do personally.
But to answer your question; there is enough of good value there that I include the link. We’re all grown up here; so I think we can click on it without have dirty thoughts. Not so sure my 12/14 year olds could do the same.
Todd
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