“Why Don’t We Love the Homosexual and Hate our Sin?”
- Posted on June 23, 2008
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Only 22 percent of SBC pastors believe Southern Baptists are sufficiently ministering to persons with same-sex attractions, indicating that most desire to reach out.
“I think the Christian faith has not done as good a job as we ought to of reacting redemptively toward people who are caught in the web of the homosexual lifestyle,” said Dr. Richard Land, president of The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, during an informal dialogue at the annual meeting. “These people are not beyond the grace of God and they need the grace of God. We need to reach out to them.”
Here’s the link to the full article.
What do you think? I rather like the way he phrased the question…
According to an article in The Christian Post, Christians often say "love the sinner, hate the sin" when expressing their stance on homosexuality. But the new leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, Dr. Johnny Hunt, wants to offer something different: "Why don't we love the homosexual and hate OUR sin?"
When the public views Southern Baptists and how they deal with the issue of homosexuality, Hunt hopes people will see how they love the homosexual.
"There seemed to be ... less of what we're fighting against and more of what we all stand for," said Sam Rainer, a pastor and president of Rainer Research, in his latest blog post, as he reflected on last week's annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Comments
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Peter Hamm on Mon, June 23, 2008
We Christians are far too often much more interested in being right than in being loving.
karl fisher on Mon, June 23, 2008
thanks for the article, todd. this is an issue/question that we gloss over on a surface level too often.
jud on Mon, June 23, 2008
Maybe when Alcoholics start doing parades and taking over Disney World for a week the Church will realize it needs to be more sensitive to them too! We are just too preachy when it comes to drunkenness!
Look, you can’t just bend the Gospel around what is or isn’t culturally acceptable. Preach against all sin and call all people to repentance… Is that going to make Christianity the darling of our culture? Of course not!
If people don’t turn from their sin it doesn’t matter how much we “love” them. This is pearl casting and swine to be sure.
fishon on Mon, June 23, 2008
Softer, kinder, gentler. Find a way to call practicing homosexuality a sin without offending the person. Someone is fooling themself. Try walking down the street at a Portland gay pride parada with a softer, gentler, kinder message.
Seems to me that Hunt is bowing to the pressure of the News Media and homosexuals. “You are mean and nasty, judgmental people, you Christians who point out our lifestyle practice and call it sin.” So, how does a person call practicing homosexality a sin without calling it sin?
fishon
Peter Hamm on Mon, June 23, 2008
Well, fishon, perhaps there is a big difference between the way Fred Phelps communicates it and the way I do.
I like to think so, at least.
Brian L. on Mon, June 23, 2008
Jud, I would have to disagree.
This Thursday, my father-in-law died after complications from an auto accident.
He was a homosexual, and came out of the closet 12 or so years ago. He was militant and vocal.
Yes, he was in sin. No if’s, and’s, or but’s about it. And as far as we can tell, he was unrepentant when he died.
It’s my hope that during his last hours, God brought to his mind and heart the opportunity to repent before facing Him. I don’t have any Scripture to tell me God does this - so all l can do at this point is rest on the fact that God is sovereign - and that He is sovereign over my father-in-law’s soul.
He constantly raged against how the church treated homosexuality in general and homesexuals specifically.
He felt that God made him gay (I disagree), and that Scripture sanctions homosexual feelings and behavior. His bookshelves were filled with books dealing with homosexual theology and how the church pushes gays away in judgment.
His obvious hope was that the Church would “come around” to believing homosexuality was acceptable.
But the church he attended before he came out believes that homosexuality is a sin. It is also the denomination I pastor in. He made it very clear during his last months that he wanted nothing to do with our denomination and forbade us from being involved in any final arrangements.
He felt that I could not love him if I disagreed with his stance on homosexuality. He felt that if I could not accept and embrace who he was, then love wasn’t there. And regardless of his feelings about that, I did love him. One of my heartaches is that I didn’t work harder at helping him see that that was possible…
Most homosexuals can’t separate who they ARE from what they DO. It is part of their identity. Therefore, when we are condemning their actions, it is perceived as condemning them.
This is where we need to be careful. No, we shouldn’t accept or justify the behavior. But as the article states, homosexuals are not beyond God’s grace.
They need to see the same love Jesus showed to the woman caught in adultery. Jesus showed grace and forgiveness (“Neither do I condemn you.”) and yet did not condone the sin (“Go and sin no more.”). He acknowledged the sin without stoning the sinner.
The Church overall needs to do a better job in approaching homosexuals with love and grace.
Ministries such as Exodus International are great at this, and they have an abundance of materials to help loved ones and churches meet this challenge with love and the authority of God’s Word.
Sorry if this is a rambling post. I’m still in shock, and I’m rather disjointed at the moment.
Overall, I think the article hits the nail on the head.
Brian L.
Jud on Mon, June 23, 2008
Brian.
1)I’m sorry about the loss of your relative.
2) I never said that homosexuals are beyond God’s Grace.
3) As far as approaching homosexuals with love and grace. I have been in this position recently. The love and grace my friend wanted was not a BIBLICAL Love and Grace. It was love me and “LEAVE me be” as a lesbian and have the grace to understand that your theology is “old fashioned” or as she stated bigoted. This person is a Christian Missionary.
4) An unregenerate soul is incapable of recieving love by hearing God’s Word from God’s people unless the Holy Spirit is working in that person’s heart. So of course a practicing homosexual (or heterosexual adulterer for that matter) isn’t going to “feel the love”. That is unless you present them the idolatry of a false Gospel.
There you go.
Again, I’m sorry for your loss and know that puts you in a valley shadows at the moment. God is still God, he will always be found exclusively in his Word. The two are inseperable.
Bruce Gerencser on Mon, June 23, 2008
Let’s be clear, being a homosexual is not a sin.
At best, the Scripture teaches homosexual SEX is the sin.
Some suggest it is promiscuous homosexual sex that is the focus of Scriptural condemnation.
This issue has many nuances to it, and our bold, homophobic pronouncements show ignorance and lack grace.
On a top ten list of issues that the Church SHOULD be addressing, homosexuality is not even on the list.
Brian McClaren is right “The Christian Church should have a five year moratorium on saying anything about homosexuality.”
Bruce
Brian L. on Mon, June 23, 2008
Jud,
I think you and I are actually in agreement, particularly in points 3 & 4.
I have never suggested that love and grace should include acceptance of sin as in point 3. And I have seen nothing in the article or other posts that suggests that.
Obviously, we can accepting of people without accepting their sin. If my daughter decided to start taking drugs, I would still love and accept her while rejecting her drug use. I would also do all I could to help her overcome it.
My point is that we need to be redemptive in how we approach sinners. God can overcome all barriers, yet so often we approach homosexuality as a “there’s no hope for them, therefore, let’s just show them God’s wrath and condemnation.”
I would grant that this may not be how people actually feel, but it is what is communicated in many cases.
I remember listening to a radio program years ago. The caller was a homosexual, and wanted to know why a man loving a man was different than a man loving a woman.
The response was (paraphrased), “The plumbing, Leo! God made you to love a woman, and he created you with the plumbing for that.”
Then he continued: “God calls what you do ‘sin.’ But Jesus died for that sin.” And for the next 90 minutes, an uncompromising dialog happened, resulting in Leo coming to Christ.
God had obviously been working in this guy’s life for a while. He had come to the point where he was listening to this Christian radio show, even though the host was adamant in his view that homosexual behavior is a sin.
What I want to point out is that Leo would have rejected Fred Phelps and his ilk while accepting the message this guy brought.
At the most basic level, the message was the same: this is sin. Turn from it and come to Christ.
But the way that message is presented is like night and day: “Go to hell because God hates you” vs. “Come to Christ for forgiveness and healing from this. We will do all we can to help you overcome this.”
Brian L.
Brian L. on Mon, June 23, 2008
Thanks, Bruce.
I do agree with you to some degree. I think we need to be careful that although a person may have homosexual tendencies, the issue is the behavior.
I am tempted by some sinful activities, but not by others. The sin is not in the temptation, but in the following of it into sin.
Of course, we cannot totally separate the heart from actions. But we cannot condemn someone to hell based on their attractions.
I hope that made sense. If not, let me know and I’ll try to clarify…
I would have to disagree with the idea that this is something we shouldn’t bother addressing as important. This comes to the heart of the structure of the family as designed by God in the beginning and affirmed by Jesus in the gospels.
Sexual sin (hetero and homo) has damaged that institution very badly.
One of the arguments brought by my father-in-law was the “nuclear” family is unbiblical. However, what was the very first social structure established by God? The nuclear family - husband, wife, kiddos. Not a village, not a commune, not gay relationships - the nuclear family.
In that same conversation he said that there is no evidence from Scripture that Joseph married Mary - that it was very possible they just were sexually active outside of marriage.
My then-16-year-old daughter wouldn’t let that pass, and responded, “They were married! The Bible is clear that when the angel told Joseph to marry her, he was obedient, and married her.” I was proud of her. She wasn’t disrespectful to her grandfather, but she also wasn’t going to let the Scriptures be maligned in her presence if she could refute it.
I may not be able to respond any further, just because of everything I need to do at the church, daughter’s b-day party, and going back to the town my father-in-law lived in and helping his kids clean out the apartment.
Thanks for the dialog, guys.
Brian L.
jud on Mon, June 23, 2008
Bruce , I get what you are saying but I assumed we were discussing homosexuals as people actively living the lifestyle, as my friend in fact is. When you say celibate do you mean both in action and thought?
Brian, I think we agree too. I’m not talking about lynching someone because they practice any sin as a habit either. At some point though you present the truth of the Gospel and people either surrender or they don’t. As far as people being in the Church professing Faith in Christ and openly, flauntingly living in the habit of Sin the Church must go the route of 1 Corinthians 5. This is something the Church is horribly inconsistent with. I’ve only seen it happen once and that was to do with heterosexual adultery.
I personally believe that this is a squeeky wheel getting the grease scenario. The Gay community has aggressively made the tolerance of their lifestyle a cultural norm. Much of the Church being apostate as it is, has coward to the idea that as a perception “we” treat homosexuality differently than any other sin. And if “we” are intolerant (heaven forbid) we could lose our “influence” (heaven, again, forbid.
So we sacrifice TRUTH on the alter of tolerance… then call unity.
jud on Mon, June 23, 2008
Oh and as for Brian Mclaren. What about a 5 year moratorium on heresy spouted from supposed Church leaders?
Pastor Dan on Mon, June 23, 2008
I think some of you that have commented on this article have never met Johnny Hunt or heard him preach - I have!. He does not take a weak stand on sin and it’s disastrous consequences. If you know Johnny you would understand these comments in a whole different light.
jud on Mon, June 23, 2008
This is a commentary on the larger issue this isn’t a commentary on Johnny Hunt and YES I’ve heard him preach… he’s my cousin’s pastor.
Bruce Gerencser on Mon, June 23, 2008
Jud,
I won’t bite on your McClaren slam, sorry http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
It is the actual act that is sin. While certainly every act of sin begins in the mind it becomes actual sin when we do what we think.
Very few days go by, as a man , when my mind isn’t drawn away to something sexually sinful. We live in a sexually charged society. I must learn to control my thoughts. Every one of us faces this battle.
At the very least I am saying that there are some men and women who are attracted to the same sex. We can debate the “why” of it for years but the bottom line is….....it is so. It is not the inclination or thought that is the sin. It is the act that is the sin.
Having said that…........I do think the modern arguments made about the Bible prohibitions against homosexuality being one of promiscuity have merit. My mind is not made up. (and please spare me (anyone) the revisionist argument) I am willing to listen. I am willing to study.
The Evangelical Church is, in many places, homophobic. (and divorce phobic) We ofter no answers, just condemnation. No hope, just hell.
Yesterday I attended a service where the preacher preached about the Church reaching out to those in need, those who are hurting. (Isa 61) Great sermon. Then he completely undid it by having an altar call that basically said just pray this prayer and bingo all your problems are fixed. I said “BS, in Jesus name of course”
Yes Jesus is the answer BUT are we willing to really enter into the lives of those who have sexual issues? I mean really enter in? Let’s face it .....I have not been to many Churches that were open enough to tolerate a man saying “I have sexual attractions to men.” I come from the school that we beat the living______out of those kind of guys.” and a lot of Christians have been trained in that same school.
30 years ago in my first pastoral position. (Todd will know the place) I worked with a pastor who literally interrogated couples planning to get married about their sexual behavior. Not a virgin…no white dress. No normal Church wedding. Terrible abuse. I am not sure Evangelicalism is much different today.
A study was done of Church Birth and Marriage records in England in the 17th-1`8th century. Remember this was the era of the Puritans and Reformers. For all their law preaching….....over 60% of those married were pregnant at the time of marriage. (and I don’t have a link but I do remember the stat)
Not much has changed.
The Bible certainly addresses sexuality. And modern Evangelicals tend to be preoccupied with it.
Bruce
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