Your Church Needs Armed Police Presence
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, December 13, 2007
- Viewed 88
- (17) comments so far
He continues…
My grandpa’s church was filled with Kansas wheat farmers. Nice folks. Not a one of them would have liked any of the five churches Janie and I have launched though. While I love every one of these wonderful people, I usually welcome newcomers and simultaneously explain a bit about this place by saying, “I encourage you to lock your doors. We are just that kind of church. I love it tremendously - I hope you do too!” Frankly, I wouldn’t want to be a part of a church where it wasn’t necessary to lock your doors. If you want to join such a place, God bless you. There are an abundance of such places right down the street from you I’m certain. They aren’t for Janie and me.
When God is up to great things, hurting people will appear at your church. (Heads up - they usually sit in the front row!) Those hurting people come in all kinds of descriptions and states of mental wellness or lack thereof.
(Please do not categorize the ‘troubled ones’ as being in general the ones who have ‘not yet met Jesus.’ That is simply not the way things work. As you begin to deal with this issue with your leadership crew, if you apply labels to people coming your way, your board might well become fearful of what
might
happen. This categorization business is nonsense and bears no resemblance to the way Jesus treated people. This could easily scare your board away from Jesus’ current call to the outward aim.)
There is not a huge difference between the troubled mental states of not-yet believers who are in need of medication-therapy and already believers. The man who did the violence this past weekend needed profound intervention. As the story has been explained, it is apparent the young man who did the shooting was some sort of believer, yet was in tremendous need of therapy, medication and who knows what beyond that.
If time allowed I could tell you literally hundreds of stories of the vagabonds who had been cast off by family, friends, etc., yet they were willing to check out our church for at least a while in hopes of a life altering, God-sized encounter. With some, that occurred. Sadly, with some, in the end they simply walked away with their heads held low.
Read the rest of Steve’s article here, then come back here and let’s discuss…
Does your church have or need police protection?
Steve Sjogren writes, "The news of two horrible shooting incidents in Colorado recently brings back to the national spotlight what I have been shouting from the rooftops for years to church leaders. If your church is more than simply providing chaplaincy services to your city in a maintenance capacity, wake up and smell the coffee about the dynamic that happens when we invite the city to church. As I understand it the idea we are all all about is simply "Invite, Invite, Invite." With the "Come hither" message, people actually do begin to believe they are welcome. Go figure! People in the community take us at our word. No tricks necessary to get people to show up. We have the same going for us as did the Church in Acts - the very love, presence and acceptance of a very present God who transforms lives by his presence. His presence is the attraction - always has been, always will be. Those who are most desperately broken are often the most in touch with an awareness of God’s very presence. Sometimes those of us who have a tradition mindset etched into our cerebellum, we can miss that transformational presence. When you and I invite the city to church, the city tends to come to church..."
Comments
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Peter Hamm on Thu, December 13, 2007
YES!
I’m not convinced we need armed guards, but we are a church FILLED with people who are very unfinished, hurting, broken, messed-up… But I find they usually sit in the back row here…
Anonymous on Thu, December 13, 2007
“We struggle not against flesh and blood…” Spiritual enemies require spiritual weapons.
Do we truly believe the words of the hymn “the body they may kill, God’s truth abideth still?”
Have we elevated our desire for physical safety above dependence upon God and seeking primarily His glory to be manifested in us and our churches?
Tommy Mitchell on Thu, December 13, 2007
“Spiritual enemies require spiritual weapons!” (so says anonymous) No argument from me on that! However, physical weapons introduced into a worship center with massive amounts of ammo aren’t going to be stopped by prayer! God gave us a brain to think with - depending on our location and the nature of our ministry, a reasonable security presence is an act of prudence and wisdom. We may very be killed for our faith, but we don’t have to allow our children and many others besides to be taken out by an armed, mentally unstable person! Most of this security can be provided “invisibly!” Some churches just post signs that the campus has plain-clothes security and some video observation! My experience, however, is that a deranged person will not be intimidated by any security presence. That in itself speaks to the need for members of the church who are in law enforcement to carry a concealed weapon - just in case. By the way, some police departments have a “must carry” policy for their officers when off duty. If they also come to your church, well, count your blessings! You have free security!
Nora on Thu, December 13, 2007
I think churches need to seriously consider nonlethal methods of containment for violent situations.
bishopdave on Thu, December 13, 2007
I have a reitred cop who wants to lock all the doors during service about 3 minutes after we start. I said no. Not 10 minutes after, not 40 minutes after. We have a need for safety, but we also have a need to be a church.
Do I take money from missions budget to pay security? do we let the ushers carry weapons? As I pray about this I lean towards perhaps this is to be viewed as a form of persecution. We need to keep our purpose in mind—and whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. Some of our guys with concealed weapon license may choose to carry; I’m not going to encourage/discourage this. Wise as serpents, harmless as doves? Our ushers keep an eye on the street folks who do come in, and we asked one to leave before due to his behavior (wanting to go into the nursery to “bless the children”).
Jim on Thu, December 13, 2007
Most in the Church are unaware that the Second Amendment to our Constitution was based on a theological response to an event that occurred in the 1580’s that was very similar to the events that occurred in Colorado. The Pope, at that time, determined to stamp out the Huguenots-French protestants- of France, sent French troops to massacre them on St. Bartholomew’s Day. This massacre became known as the “St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre”. Some historians say that upwards of 200 hundred thousand Protestants were slaughtered; whereas, others place a lesser number of around 40 thousand. Yet, the result was that the Protestant theologians began to search the Scriptures as to an appropriate response for this event.
The theologians search the Scriptures, as well as the works of Calvin and Luther, and others, and concluded that since all men are created equal, no man has the right to subjugate another by force or coercion. Therfore, they concluded that the right to “conscience” was to be protected for all men. This “natural law”, which is the moral law of God, conclusion was that the right to self-defense is an “unalienable right”. This position was later taken to heart by our founding fathers, who were greately influenced by the works of Luther and Calvin, and was codified within our Bill of Rights, which we know as the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Another interesting fact is that the Declaration of Independence, for those who have never read the entire document, is a theological response to the abuses of King George of England-a Scriptural response that included the right to protect the “right of conscience”, and enabled them to pick up arms to protect that right.
Most Believers have little knowledge regarding the Bilblical grounds and necessity of self-protection, as well as the right to confront and prevent evil from destroying innocent life. The first of our “unalienable rights” were stated in the Declaration of Independence: “the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the Pursuit of HAPPINESS.” Without the right to protect life, all other rights are without value or benefit. Therefore, Believers need to be aware that the warfare of the Spirit can take on fleshly attritubutes. So, wise leaders will prepare to defend, as well as lead the flock that Christ has given them.
Randy Ehle on Thu, December 13, 2007
This is a tough one that merits much prayer and wisdom. One of the questions to ask is, what are we protecting ourselves from? If we’re trying to deter car thieves and vandals, we probably need a different type of protection than if we are inviting active and possibly violent opposition because of our theology and/or practice, which will be different if we’re trying to protect our kids from estranged dads or child predators.
A large church I used to work at had a security guard with a Doberman Pinscher named Dude (one of the nicer specimans of that breed I’ve met!). They were a visible deterrent to some of the would-be trouble-makers, but wouldn’t have been significant help in a situation like what New Life experienced on Sunday.
I guess we need to ask, what are we doing and saying that might invite opposition, and what is an appropriate way to respond to that opposition?
Jason Curlee on Thu, December 13, 2007
I’ve been in churches of all sides of the spectrum. One church had none. The next church had some security and off-duty police that had concealed weapons. The church I’m at now has off-duty uniformed police officers.
I can tell you for myself…I actually like the security of having uniformed police…it does not take away anything from my worship experience and on top of that I feel my family is in a safer environment.
If it can happen there it can happen anywhere.
Kirk Longhofer on Thu, December 13, 2007
Do we need it? Yes.
Do we have it? Not often. Generally only for special events that occur in the evening.
We are a downtown church, with all of the attendant neighborhood issues that brings. It’s simply a matter of time before an incident forces us to make the decision to dedicate scarce resources toward a security presence whenever our doors are open.
BrentH on Thu, December 13, 2007
I agree with Nora. It’s not that we shouldn’t be protected, but why does it have to be a lethal form. I don’t believe that it is ok for a Christian to take another’s life, even under persecution. While I can appreciate the protection of family (I can’t imagine what I would really do if my wife or two little boys were threatened), I don’t want my desire for protection to overcome my call to “love my enemies.” I’m not saying I wouldn’t kill someone if I came under those same circumstances, but I also don’t believe that is what God would want me to do. Again, we should protect ourselves, but not when that means we must take someone else’s life.
This is a very difficult subject. I do greatly appreciate the thoughts here.
Brent
Leonard Lee on Thu, December 13, 2007
I worked with Gangs for years and never felt the need for secuirity, I figured common sense along with faith was enough. We got caught in a gun fight one night, got caught in some rival gang fights and took our share of weapons from kids, but never lost anyone during our meetings. By the way, we used to meet in our house. we would have 120 kids in my garage, bloods, crips and skin heads all sitting together.
In my church we have off duty officers and these shootings actually have prompted me to sit with them and a few others to create a few action plans with some scenarios. From there we will train our men with these plans.
This is actually how we did it with the gangs. I would go over a few scenarios and our plans. Seemed to work.
I also agree we need to think non-lethal. Not because of a sanctity of life issue but becasue of an escalation in the church and community issue.
I never fought with gang kids even when they wanted to fight me because the anger only stirs anger. A soft answer turns away anger.
deaubry on Fri, December 14, 2007
leonard, i commend you for working with the gangs, i went into a bad neighbourhood once to try to minister to the people, and i did minister for a while, but the trouble with that was i could not get anyone to help me, the christians was to afraid of the people in this place , but it never crossed my mind to be afraid. but the people responded very well, i believe if i would have had help i could have stayed and things would have changed for those people, although some did accept the lord, but they needed follow up, but my husband did not want me to go by my self, but later some of them from that neighbourhood would call me to come pray for them, and i would go, and i still never thought about security. but you got to love god and people more than you think about being safe. i believe god will keep us safe, but if someone needs to use force i say use it, you cant let someone kill people when you can stop them, and i think this young man was bent on killing as many as he could, and i think the woman did all she could do about it, it is sad that things happen like that, it makes you cry for their soul ,almost knowing where they will spend eternity.
Scotty Davis on Fri, December 14, 2007
The truth is difficult sometimes
We may not like it we might even be offended by
their presence but they are needed. I work as a police chaplain and we should be careful to consider the men and women who have to do the work of coming to the house of God with a weapon.
I had a doctoral Seminar with Adam Hammond who was the youth pastor at Wedgewood Baptist Church when the shooting at a concert took place and 15 people lost thier lives. You can read about it at http://www.ccauthority.com/gunman.htm
I Know that they wished there had been an armed police officer there that night. Romans 13:6 is the passage that gives police officers their authority and the need to have them in or near the place of worship is becoming more and more essential.
Stevearino on Sun, December 16, 2007
It is remarkable how often we tend to gravitate to extreme conclusions regarding many issues that challenge our current way of thinking. We fear change. We especially fear the changing of our minds.
Experience counts enormously here. The ‘been there, done that’ factor is priceless. There is no room for the pipe smoking theologian theorizing when safety is on the line. It is difficult to see people come to Jesus when they do not feel safe at gatherings.
Daniel on Mon, December 17, 2007
Hmm… what does Jesus say about ‘legitimate’ self-defense????
...
I like to quip that Christianity isn’t about what happens to your ‘soul’ when you die. But at the same time, if Christians aren’t ready to die, who is? If our faith means anything, it means we trust God for ultimate justice. For this reason, instruments of death have no place in or near the house of God. Governments will do what governments will do, but Christians pledge allegiance to a different Kingdom. A Kingdom marked by the cross instead of the sword.
Have a Christian, volunteer security force, fine, but don’t give them guns!! Talk about voiding the gospel of peace!! We should not value survival over faithfulness.
‘Common-sense’ should never become an excuse to side step our Lord’s commands (which, according to Paul, are ‘foolish’ in the world’s eyes).
Peace.
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