Andy Stanley on The Courageous Pastor
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, November 08, 2004
- Viewed 189
- (55) comments so far
The irony is we stand up and talk about Daniel in the lion's den but then we won't even confront elders. All of these bible heroes ? David and Goliath ? and we love to preach those sermons and draw these parallels and then we're scared to confront people. I think that dynamic alone is a big part of why the church is where it is. The leadership ? or lack of leadership ? is just so much fear of people. I don't know where that comes from...
When I see pastors who are scared I want to tell them, 'Just lead.' If they fire you and you don't think God will take care of you, then you have no message for your people anyway, because we get up every Sunday and say God's grace is sufficient. He's going to take care of you, He'll meet your every need and you'll never see the "righteous go hungry." It's what we preach, but if our lack of faith in those practical things causes us to not to be able to lead then what's our message anyway?"
Wow... that gives you something substancial to think about on a Monday morning, doesn't it? I know many who read this are going through great times of conflict during your present ministry. Some probably had a day yesterday where things just blew up (literally). Don't let your 'worry about tommorrow' determine how you react to today's situations. There are also many that are reading this that are flying high in ministry right now. Stay strong. Stay courageous. And love your people.
What do you think? Do you agree with Andy? How have you shown courage in your leadership recently? Or, maybe you can give us an example of a time or two when you were scared and weren't very courageous. I'd love to hear your comments.
Serving on a church staff is not for the faint-hearted. It takes courage and strength to lead in the church. Andy Stanley spoke about pastors and courage in a recent edition of Preaching Magazine. Here’s what Andy wrote: "Speaking from my limited view, I feel like so much of the problem with pastors is they are just scared to death. They’re scared of their people, they’re scared of deacons, they’re scared, they’re scared, they’re scared. You know, if you’re scared of someone you can’t lead them; you can hardly even influence them. Here’s the pastor who’s been hired ? I tell our business guys all the time, "You’d never go to work for an organization where the customers can hire and fire the president of the company they bought products from." But that’s the church world.
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Comments
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Dr. Michael L. Lowery on Mon, November 08, 2004
I personally would never agree to serve a church from which I could be fired, but after 37 years of ministry let me say that the implementation of a God vision in ANY church has to be done so carefully. So often young ministers see where they need to be, but cannot get there without a carefully laid and implemented plan. Nothing happens well in a church suddenly! All change must be brought about with the vetting of other leaders in the group. They have to see the vision too! Help them! If there is someone actually IN such a mess, I’d be glad to coach!
JeffMo on Mon, November 08, 2004
Thanks for the subject this monday, I think! It hits too close to home as we also are experiencing much of the same. Our problems have continued for years because of the presence of the founding pastor, who is a traveling evangelist, but seems to have just enough remaining influence with his group that planted the church to raise questions about everything I do.
We have lost about 50 people in a church of about 210 over the last few months because they have lost control. Many new people are coming (much younger, of course)who have a heart to serve, but have been kept back by “the group” who served comfortably.
Now “the group” and others are gone but are left with a large void that we are in need of filling faster than we are able.
I know that God is in it, and that my resolve is stronger now than months ago. We are pressing on with the vision God has given us and the new people are buying into. We are a NEW church! While it hurts to lose them, it will be better later on.
Having courage has never been easy, and it is usually costly, but it is also incredibly rewarding. REMEMBER: God’s will for Jesus was a cross; why should we expect less?
Vvicki H. Marxen on Mon, November 08, 2004
Some have exchanged boldness in pastoral leadership and authenticity in Christian doctrine for acceptance by the politically correct. I received the following answer to my defense of Biblical inerrancy in a chaplaincy application.
“Whose interpretation of Scripture? Yours, mine, his or hers? Therein lies the problem we encounter when seeking the “truth"of Scripture. Furthermore, which scripture has the “truth”; Christian, Hebrew, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu just to name a few?
Chaplaincy is a broad based theological / religious / spiritual ministry. It appears this approach to ministry would be outside your beliefs and clinical competency.”
The politically correct in power will not hire an evangelical like me.
I have experience in both workplace and hospital chaplaincy, great references, and an M.Div. from a respected university.
I am not fearful, but disappointed that I have been unable to find a call to a full-time ministry position after graduating with my M.Div. I continue to trust the Lord, for He knows my needs. I am not compromising my theology for a career.
andrew on Mon, November 08, 2004
Thankyou Andy Stanley for challenging me, as i don’t naturally have conflict resolution skills & have a wrong ingrained mentality “That conflict is unbiblical or pastoral” but thanks for showing me, i need a balance of strength and love to lead effectively. I’m a young pastor and thought i was prepared for all types of problems i may encounter, but i never knew i would have extreme conflict with my own senior pastor!!!! I have found this exhausting and frustrating but trying to ignore what issues are there doesn’t work. So this article has again outlined my need to resolve issues and not let them linger.
MJ on Mon, November 08, 2004
To the Courageous Pastor
There’s an old hymn with a verse that reads “Let courage rise with danger, and strength to strength oppose,” and in the next verse reads, “Where duty calls or danger, be never wanting there.”
Few pastors have an adequate support structure. Few pastors have enough close friends to call on in any circumstance. And yet we think our pastors should be just that for the church people, in the community, and the hospital, and the nursery, and the graveyard and the psych ward. Some wise pastors, realizing their limitations and mortality, have enlisted others to help with the ministry. That pastor who is “doing it all” hasn’t run an enlistment campaign, and is frustrated because one man can’t do it all. And the pastor who has that proverbial “thorn in the flesh” interfering with ministry at every turn needs some linebackers to run counter-interference. For the spiritual football field these can be prayer warriors, and for the tangible gridiron these can be people who stand in defense of their quarterback so he doesn’t get sacked. People can guard their pastor against the possibility of temptations becoming realized, and can guard against those people who come to just chat but end up diverting a pastor from his more important tasks.
I have two thoughts:
First, I would urge all pastors to take aside 2 or 3 people to be close friends, and 9 or 12 more to multiply the impact of ministry by dividing the work, especially if the church is large enough to have those. These do not have to be “deacons,” but instead, people that a pastor can depend on to work. If “deacons” aren’t working, a pastor should first confront biblically and ask for that help, and then if necessary, figure out by constitution and bylaws how to carry out a little maneuver from Donald Trump. This was Jesus’ model- to paraphrase Luke 9:23, If you want to follow me, count the cost and then work. Pastors have too much work to do to be beset with grief from the church or community, and no time to waste on those who won’t work alongside them in the field. They need just a few people (not necessarily church members) with whom they can be open and close, who will love and encourage and sharpen and occasionally challenge them. And they need a larger number of people (church members would be good here) to do most of the work of the ministry so that the pastor has enough time to listen to God instead of being pulled in every direction by the winds of the urgent.
Second, I would urge pastors to get a clear understanding of the purpose God has for them as Shepherds, and His church. A pastor must “Stand Up for Jesus.” I read “where duty calls,” to speak of ministering by bringing a faithfully prayed-over word from God. I read “or danger,” to mean standing in the gap praying with the sick, and encouraging the church to continued service and sacrifice to God. I read “strength to strength oppose,” to mean confronting the spiritually dark world with the courage that comes from knowing what God says. This again was Jesus strategy when tempted. People will be the tools of Satan to distract the church, and especially pastors, from that purpose, that message and that truth, to attempt to dilute the power of that message, or to discourage or completely disable pastors from service. The distractions must be seen as such, and the purpose God has for His Church must not be sidetracked in committee or by some diversionary tactic, person or persons. The Word and that circle of friends and disciples are safety nets for pastors. We must stand firmly on the Word, but we read that sometimes even Moses leaned on his friends.
With a clear purpose and message in their hearts, pastors will be able to clearly communicate and bring those who want the Church to work and fulfill its’ purpose along to carry it out. Those who don’t want the Church to do that work and are either not working or trying to distract, and those who have an ulterior motive to stop the church from fulfilling its’ purposes, should either be enlisted or dishonorably discharged.
“Ye that are brave now serve Him!”
Michael
Danny on Mon, November 08, 2004
I have been a pastor for over 15 yrs. and have always preached boldly, but lately I am feeling discouraged. I do not preach much on social issues, yet that seems to be the trend right now. As I read the Bible those men preached to the people who were under their care not the world. The world will do as it has done. Jesus did not even speak to Pilot until He was forced too, before Herod He remained silent. Yet what I hear from the pulpit, tv, radio, are social issues. Maybe I am wrong but I believe as pastor we are to preach the Scriptures with boldness to the people who are before us. But it is true that when you do some people will not like it and leave, others will get angry and get even, but some will appreciate it and grow. Yes, we become afraid when the numbers begin to dwindle or we have to confront the deacon who lives a dull life or your heart aches because you must speak the truth no matter what and it seems like fewer and fewer are. I say the Scriptures are perfect and end the debate about inerrancy. Why would anyone be a pastor and not believe that? I feel like modern day Jeremiah because sometimes I feel like quiting, but I can’t because the Word burns within me and I love the people so much. The real problem is that no matter what happens in church the blame falls to the pastor. Some people when they get hurt or angry will bad mouth the church and the pastor. And when you are in a small town like I am everyone is related to everyone else and the pastor will always be the outsider. Maybe I should write my own book, but then I don’t know anyone who knows someone. See that is even true in the ministry. So thank you this helps to vent. Be true to the LORD and everything else will just fall into place. I have heard people say the church would not be happy unless Jesus Christ Himself were their preacher. Well that certainly is not true! In fact I do not believe there is a church in this world that would allow Jesus in the door no less behind the pulpit. Read Jn.6:61, Yes Jesus offended the people and the sadest verse is Jn. 6:66 (strange 666). Only 12 remained and one of them was the devil. Jesus was crucified, all but one disciple died a horrible death. Why should it be any different for us? Thank you Jesus!!
Lilian on Mon, November 08, 2004
Fire the pastors? You wish! Sometimes we are so forgiving and full of grace that the dead wood remains…pastors who truly care for their flock, serving the people with love and humility, rather than lording over them would never need to fear the “firing line.” Pastoring is a ministry, a call and not just a job. God’s the boss and if you are doing what he wants you to do, you should have no fear of men.
Russell Bettini on Tue, November 09, 2004
You cannot control what others think or do. You have to be courageous anyway. You cannot please everyone. You have to be courageous anyway. The congregation as a whole like you and admire you. You have to be courageous anyway. It is the handful of trouble makers that cause you big problems. You have to be courageous anyway. A large part of leadership is being consistent and going on with what you feel is the leadership of the Holy Spirit, regardless of the outcome. That is in God’s hands.
Michael on Tue, November 09, 2004
God gave me an opportunity to possibly pastor a Baptist Church in Oklahoma City. I preached several times and met with the pulpit committee. It was a big auditorium that maybe was a quarter filled, so I challenged them to begin to reach out to the community with the idea that it was what the church was supposed to do, even if they decided later to join another church. The committee seemed to like the messages, but I was called and told that they wanted to head in a different direction. When I asked the interim pastor if they had said anything to him about the reason why, they told him that I was not forceful enough from the pulpit i.e. I was not like the previous pastor they had for forty years; I was not a shouter, and I did not substitute perspiration for inspiration. I just preached the Word expositionally. I think they knew that the status quo and focus of the church was going to have to change, but I do not regret laying it out in the open. I am fairly sure that they are probably maintaining the status quo, which seems to be what they wanted from the very beginning. It reminds me of the seven last words of a dying church: We’ve never done it that way before. Too bad because they missed out on a wonderful blessing from God.
Ken Mandley on Tue, November 09, 2004
One of the major reasons many apstors face this situation is that the local church isn’t organized based on a Biblical pattern. The American church has allowed our thinking about secular government to influence thinking about local church government. Paul told Titus to appoint elders…He didn’t tell the church to vote to elect elders and then to elect Titus. If we got local church government right, there would be fewer pastors in situations that lead to fear of the people. I personally feel very fortunate that I am planting a church, that God is giving me the ability to support my wife and myself through my own business, and that the Elders of a church about 30 miles away have agreed to provide accountability, wisdom, and prayer for me until we have suffiecient spiritually mature men in our new group to provide leadership.
Tom Geoffroy on Tue, November 09, 2004
Andy makes a very valid point when he says you cannot lead when you are scared. It is also true that when the congregations can just fire you and hire a new pastor it makes it even more difficult to be fearless in the face of opposition. It is for these reasons that I believe the congregational form of church government is hindering church growth and dynamic progress into areas of ministry that are not embraced by the masses and only live in the heart of pastors, as they are fearful to make change. I am seeing change in the Body of Christ where some churches are taking up the model of the New Testament and are embracing top down leadership. The leader is appointed or in my case is the church planter and the others are i.e. elders, deacons, etc. are appointed as well. There is a “leadershift” that must occur in order to see God’s plans for His church to be fully implemented. This is not to say it will be easy or that others will agree with me. Any time we change, it causes an unsettled feeling among the laity and the clergy as well. I took on this concept and there were several who left the congregation to form a new one that they could lead. Our current congregation, though smaller at the moment, is stronger in maturity and devotion to Christ. I look forward to seeing what God will accomplish through us in the future.
Homer Hanshaw on Tue, November 09, 2004
This article is correct in many ways. However it misses an essential point. Those of us who did not “confront” of wish to confront did not do so out being afraid to lead. Often we did so out of being tired. Tired of being attacked by people in the church who know that the system is sick and will never be well enough to be achieve the task God ahs placed before it, but wants to hold all the power and none of the responsibility for their control.
Maybe the difference between Daniel and the lions den and the modern dysfunctional church is that the lions actually listened to God when he said that they should keep their mouths closed. But I may well be wrong.
Dr. J. Burrell on Tue, November 09, 2004
Whether or not the comparison to the ‘corporate’ world is or is not correct is not the issue here. The fact is fear has no place in leadership. The author is not encouraging arrogance, but courage to make decisions and the wisdom to know God will provide what we need if we will ‘think’ before we act. Most church ‘trouble’ I have seen in my 38 years of ministry could have been avoided by most pastors if they had made calm decisions in the place of irrational, emotional, arrogant decisions. While there is no place for wimps in the Kingdom, pride filled arrogance has no place either.
Derek Morris on Tue, November 09, 2004
The apostle Paul had the right idea with a “tent making” ministry. There is fear of loss to your well being when a paycheck is involved. You have your kids connected in the local schools, a mortgage and car payment. So, if you’re fired, your whole support structure - financially and emotionally - disappears. And, it hurts.
Ha! But the individual who is not tied to a paycheck is going to lead with more freedom, because there is not a financial tie to the organization. It is easier to keep your eyes on the vision of the church because there is not an element of self-preservation involved. It would be great if we were all spiritual enough to say that we don’t worry about such things. But, we do. I have found more effectiveness in choosing ministries where I either do not take a salary or have a minimal salary that allows me to still work in the business world. I determine where I’ll work by which fellowship I want to serve. I am an ordained minister and usually have responsibility as a pastor on staff, but without the controlling connection of money. That way, I keep my eyes on the purpose and then can deal with others with true agape - bibilically serving the best interests of those that are in the church.
Mabel Dennis on Tue, November 09, 2004
re: How Courageous Are You? message ... it’s too bad that the Church has fallen into the temptation to exalt one person above all others in a local congregation (like a country’s government does), instead of having a group of elders/shepherds/overseers, as the Scripture outlines ... believers take those who’ve been called and gifted to lead in order to “equip the church for service” (Eph 4) and set them up for failure, for never being able to live up to human expectations, for temptations that isolation at the top can lead to.
ALL believers are at eye-level at the foot of the cross. No gift or position is above any other in the Body of Christ. It’s sad that ministry staff are looked upon this way ... and it’s more sad when the staff themselves stake claim to such a “higher” position…coming close to psuedo-martyrdom ...
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