Are Seminaries Relevant Today?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, April 13, 2009
- Viewed 75
- (24) comments so far
Here are a couple of the questions and answers:
We hear of some very successful churches led by people without seminary training. Yet nearly all pastoral search committees require an M.Div. How important is seminary training today?
You’re asking somebody who has invested 25 years of his life in seminary training. What I have learned about pastors of large effective churches who have not gone to seminary is that they are avid readers—insatiable in their appetite for understanding life and the world, culture, and the Bible. And a great number of them have done the equivalent of seminary education by seeking out gifted mentors who have a wealth of resources and provide guided studies. So I think many of these people—the ones that last over the long haul—have the characteristics that I’ve just described.
So those who have succeeded in ministry for the long haul without seminary are those few exceptionally driven people who achieve the same level of learning—not just from themselves, but from others they accept guidance from—without the discipline of seminary?
What I often say to people thinking about seminary is that a seminary degree will create a structure of discipline for you to read and study and learn in areas that you would want to learn anyway. Without the structure seminary provides, you may not find the discipline to make it all happen.
I think the danger of doing pastoral ministry without the equivalent of seminary education is in being contemporary without having roots in the history of the church. The history of Bible and theology, for example, turns up every conceivable heresy that we find in our world today. They have surfaced before in an earlier setting. They may be called something else, but in essence there are rarely new heresies. If you have the benefit of church history, it shapes a world view that diffuses the enthusiasm for everything that’s new by tempering it with the truths of God that have been given to us through the Scripture and godly teachers down through the centuries.
(Nice follow up question, by the way!)
So… pastors that do well over the long haul without seminary training are just really self-motivated. I can buy that totally. I know some of them, and this motivation and the appetite for learning and having a great mentor is a quality that each and every one of them has.
Seminary then, is for the people who don’t have the motivation, structure, or discipline to make it happen? Is that really what he meant to say, or am I reading it differently?
The true value he does say that seminary gives is the perspective of church history. I would agree… but this could also be just as easily learned through self study and motivation, could it not?
What’s your take? Is seminary still invaluable? Are the teaching young pastors what they need to know to be effective in local ministry? I’d love to hear your input.
You can read the whole Rev. article here...
Rev. Magazine posted an interesting interview this morning with Leland Eliason, the provost at Bethel Seminary about the relvancy of today's seminaries. They deal with some sensitive subjects; like the changing culture of the church and the seemingly unchanging culture at many of the nation's seminaries; the number of prominent, growing churches that are pastored by non-seminary trained pastors, yet the number of search committees that require a M.Div. for consideration. It's an interesting discussion, as you'll see here...Comments
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Pastor Joseph on Mon, April 13, 2009
To be honest I learned a lot more about the Bible outside of Seminary. I learned a lot more about the Bible in Bible College than I did seminary. But I also had a several year interval between B.C. & Seminary. I hate to say it, but 85% of Semianry training is a waste of time while you have about 15% of classes that are relevant & useful to ministry. To top it off, the Seminary I attended offers very little of the Bible itself. I have seen many students come in alive (spiritually speaking) & walk out dead. I am sure not all Seminaries are that bad but many are truly more like cemetaries than they are Seminaries.
Pat on Mon, April 13, 2009
Anyone that thinks once they get they’re degree, they’re all set, is sorely mistaken. I am an advocate of higher education, but more importantly, of lifelong learning. No institution can give you all that you need. They lay a foundation (as some have already said) but it’s up to each individual as to what they do with it. Whether one goes to seminary or not, read, talk to people, attend worthwhile seminars and conferences and above all, allow JESUS to be your teacher. Your education will never end.
Pastor Joseph on Mon, April 13, 2009
Good words Pat, I fully agree!
Wendi Hammond on Mon, April 13, 2009
Another Bethel grad here (2006 – MA in Transformational Leadership). I greatly appreciated Bethel and Dr. Eliason.
I have a seminary in my home town, and it would have been a lot cheaper to stay at home. But my local seminary didn’t offer what Bethel offered – solid bible and theological training along with practical training to help me learn to lead within a variety of contexts. That is what made Bethel relevant, and I fear many seminaries irrelevant.
Also related to relevancy is the availability of different delivery mechanisms. Ministry is about my 3rd career (pretty astounding for a 30 year old, huh – I love the invisibility of the internet). I think that 2nd and 3rd career ministers are changing the landscape of vocational ministry, bringing years of marketplace and business knowledge to their work. But, like me, this 2nd career minister needs bible and theological training his/her single career counterpart got in his/her 20’s. To be relevant to this new potential seminary student, schools need to provide access to education that doesn’t require packing up your family and giving up your income while preparing for a new career in ministry. Bethel offered this, others schools need to or they will be left behind.
Finally, what I appreciated most about Bethel was that the professors taught me how to discern and discover biblical truths, leaving room for each of us to have differences in our discoveries. I remember one of my theology profs, when we were in the midst of a heated discussion about the tenants of Calvinism vs. Arminism, refused to tip his own hand. He did not want any of us to be influenced by expressing where he landed on these doctrines, nor did he want us to settle for what we’ve always been taught, but he wanted us to carefully consider all theological points of view discover our own positions. These are great learning experiences that prepare people well for ministry, because neither should we be simply “telling” people what to believe as much as we should be leading them to discover biblical truth.
Wendi
Andy C. on Mon, April 13, 2009
Well, at least there aren’t any strong opinions on this! JK It sounds to me like the information/knowledge aspect of seminary can be found in other places and by other means if a person is motivated. What is more of a challenge to find, and what the non-seminary trained pastors of large churches seem to have found in addition to their “insatiable reading” is being discipled by someone. Leland called them “gifted mentors” and Joe Johnson commented on the “the community, contacts, and out of class discussions.” I think that the personal coaching and spiritual shaping that comes from an older and wiser brother/sister is the most indispensable aspect of anyone’s training experience, be it seminary or not. I also think that most US seminaries are most weak in this regard, not the teaching or knowledge arena. Those students that receive it are the exception rather than the rule.
Andy Wood on Mon, April 13, 2009
I once heard someone say, “Seminaries train people for jobs that don’t exist.” He was right. The honest truth is that M.Div. degrees train us in a smattering of a lot of things, most of which are irrelevant to leading churches. The things we theology students made fun of the most (R.E. courses) were some of the main things we needed to organize and lead people.
That said, what seminary WAS good for was something of a boot camp for pastors. Truth be told, if you weren’t called to ministry, it was highly unlikely that you’d stick it out. The discipline, the surreal life circumstances for people old enough to actually CARE about their income and living conditions, the hours and hours of course work, income work, church work (volunteer or otherwise), all serve as wonderful refiners.
I am convinced that if God has called us to ministry, He WILL take us to “school.” Seminary remains the most EFFICIENT means, as the school of hard knocks is a much longer process.
As others have said, those who succeed without this process have found other ways to be trained, disciplined, and refined.
Now… could we PLEASE revise the curriculum? I’ve never heard of a pastor who lost his church because he couldn’t parse a verb or discuss the fine points of Philosophy of Religion. But I’ve met plenty who sell cars, shoes, or cemetery plots because they couldn’t lead organizations or get along with people.
Leonard on Tue, April 14, 2009
I do not have a seminary education so I use Wikipedia. It helps with all my ministry needs. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
I think the church needs to move the seminaries back into the flow of the local church if it wants seminaries to produce people who are ministry ready. Theology and history are two of the most important classes to be taken.
Derek V. There are many more things more dangerous than a pastor who knows a little Greek. But pastors who do not know Greek should not act as if they do. The enormous number of tools in the Greek language allow for people who do not know Greek to make use of it. English is also pretty powerful in understanding the Word.
If seminary is so valuable for ministry and the kingdom, then much of the rest of the world sure needs us western educated people to come riding in on our big white bibles and save them.
I am for education and for seminary but I am not for seminary as a litmus test or a measurement for someones call, gifts and talents for serving in ministry.
Let’s measure fruit, let’s measure character, let’s measure accountability and faithfulness. These seem to be much more biblical standards. Seminary is a tool in the Hands of God the Holy Spirit in developing these. But it is not the only way God does.
GS Whyte on Mon, April 27, 2009
I am currently in the middle of my seminary education, and while there is some valuable information and insights… I do agree with some before who said that the standards in seminary and the realities of ministry are often very different. As a (now deceased) mentor of mine once said - “Higher education begins after you finish the seminary.”
What gets me is that most churches not only require an M.Div. but also at least 10 years of “successful ministry experience”, so for the fresh graduate who has little to none regarding experience (because there is very little connection between the seminary and the churches), it does seem like it is just one more “requirement” to shorten the applicants list to the select and chosen - which because of the rising costs of seminary education, most of these same churches won’t be able to afford these new graduates - so several hundred ministries close every year… and I think the statistic for pastors is even worse - 80% no longer in ministry only 5 years after seminary? (that is assuming they could find ministries after seminary…)
The other issue is if you take Bible College before seminary. What happens then is that 40% of what you are studying becomes a review of what you already took, especially if there is not much time between the two (I took a year off between these two for my first ministry placement…). Looking back, I would recommend seminary for giving the foundations and information on languages, history and skills in exegesis, counseling and homiletics. However, if you do that, make sure that your undergraduate degree is in something other than religious studies or “religious education” (pastoral, youth, etc.)
GS
CISSP dumps on Sat, July 04, 2009
It’s really an impressive post man. According to me, if God is unswerving our path, and He’s carrying out what He has began, then no one’s Seminary understanding will be the similar as some one else’s understanding. I will write more after searching for 1Y0-259 dumps papers for taking my exam. Thanks…
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