Being Slain in the Spirit Can Be Dangerous and Financially Rewarding

Posted on April 14, 2010
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(101) comments

A woman in Michigan has won a sizable monetary judgement against her church.. Here's the deal. Mount Hope Church held a service in which Judith Dadd got a little too much of the Spirt and fell, injuring herself...

Sounds like a Benny Hinn push gone bad.

But anyway... in her lawsuit, Ms. Dadd claimed her pastor defamed her when he accused her of insurance fraud, faking her injuries, and renouncing her faith. A previous jury had awarded Dadd $317 in damages for her injuries as well as slander, libel, and false light.

The most recent court decision affirmed Dadd's negligence claim (worth $40k), but reversed the damages for libel, slander, and false light.

You can read the article here.

Hmm... lots of questions here.

1. Would God allow you to hurt yourself while worshipping him? I'm not sure that I've ever heard of this kind of worship-related injury before.

2. What responsibility does a church have in this kind of instance?

3. Can we agree that it probably would have been good for the pastor not to accuse of insurance fraud and faking injuries?

4. But what if she really was faking injuries and committing insurance fraud? Should the pastor have been justified in calling her out if that's what she was doing?

5. Maybe we should change the terminology from 'slain in the spirit' to 'impaired in the spirit'. If she would have actually been 'slain', there would have been a lot more damages.

Ok. Time to turn off my mind. It's getting me nowhere.

What do YOU think?

Todd

Comments

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Peter Hamm on Mon, April 26, 2010

Amos,

Trying to be gentle here, but, you are wrong.

And you are using your experience as an excuse and a smokescreen. You will only join a church or follow a leader if they are perfect. None are.

I’m so sorry, I can’t be gentle with this any longer. You are just plain mistaken in your approach. You need fellowship, you need accountability, you need authority, and you’ve decided you can be all of those things. You can’t.
A. Amos Love on Mon, April 26, 2010

CS - Peter - Curious

I�m enjoying the conversation and the way you reason.

Good stuff. I feel blessed. Thanks for remaining civil.

Mal 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another:
and the LORD hearkened, and heard it,
and a book of remembrance was written before him
for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Thank you Jesus…
A. Amos Love on Mon, April 26, 2010

Peter

You write…
“You need fellowship, you need accountability, you need authority,”

Much agreement. I do have fellowship, lot’s of it.
We sing together, we pray together, we minister together.

I do have accountability, submit to quite a few I esteem and trust.

I do have authority. It’s just outside “The Religious System.”

It’s outside the 501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax $ deductible,
Religious $ Corporation, most call"church.”

Should we call a $ Corporation “The Church of God?”
Not any more… Thank you JESUS!!!!
Peter Hamm on Mon, April 26, 2010

Amos,

I actually don’t think my last post was civil enough, thanks for giving me grace.

Citing the passage you mentioned, I’d say that I still think you are reading into Scripture what you want to see to justify your own position, rather than really letting Scripture speak into your life and situation.

It’s like the difference between applying the Bible to my life (which often results in picking and choosing) and applying my life to the Bible (reading it… doing what it says… done deal…)

Are you doing the former more than the latter?

Also, not every church is as messed up as your charicatures of the church show.

In any case, bless you!
A. Amos Love on Mon, April 26, 2010

Peter

Thanks for the apology. But really, I respect your position.

And even not thinking you were civil wasn’t bad at all.

Trust me, I’ve heard lot’s worse… By Christions. Oy Vey!!!

I mean, look at all the disagreement going on.

I know where you’re coming from.

I said many of the same things when my beliefs were challenged.

Hey, I was in “Leadership” Ouch! :-( Didn’t do so good.
Hurt some folks. Put heavy weights on their shoulders,
thinking I was helping them. Had to repent.

Gave up my “Title” and “Position” to follow Christ.
Gave up the power, profit, prestige, honor , glory, and reputation,
that comes with the “Title” and “Position.”

You know, All those things that Jesus spoke against.

Humble anyone?

Glad He’s the God of a second chance and 3 and 4 etc.

Be blessed… And be a blessing
James on Mon, April 26, 2010

Being the pastor of a pentecostal church I have often told my church that the only instance that I have found in Scripture of someone being slain in the Spirit was Ananias in Acts 5! ha!

Nevertheless, there is much that goes on in churches of every denomination that do not have biblical precedence, per se. I just try to “let God be God, and get out of his way!” And through the foolisnness of preaching God is pleased to save those who believe (1 Cor. 1:21).
Casey Sabella on Mon, April 26, 2010

Solomon’s temple? Healing of the epileptic? The guards who fell at the arrest of Jesus? Isaiah at his calling? In each case, none were able to stand in the presence of the glory of God. None of these events were contrived nor are they the basis of doctrine. Nevertheless, they occurred.
A. Amos Love on Fri, April 30, 2010

CS - Peter - Curious

I�ve been thinking about something CS wrote on Mon Apl 26…

�So by your logic, all of the writings that God did through Paul where He laid out the foundation for the position, duty, and title of elder were with the intent that someone would never be able to fulfill those requirements.�

Seems CS hit upon something that could be important.
Be interested in your take on this.

Started thinking about that statement and
the many things God ask�s HIS people to do, and we fall short.
We, as people, just can�t seem to do what HE ask�s - �fulfill the requirements.�

1 - We have the Ten Commandments.

How well did the Isrealites do with obeying just 10?
How are you doing with the 10?

I don�t seem to be able to �fulfill those requirements.�
How about you all?

2 - Then there�s The Greatest Commandment in the NT.

How are you doing with loving God with all your heart, soul and mind?
How are you doing with loving your neighbor?
How are you doing with loving yourself?

I don�t seem to be able to �fulfill those requirements.�
How about you all?

3 - Jesus said �fear not�and �worry not.�

I don�t seem to be able to �fulfill those requirements.�
How�s that been working for you?

4 - Trust in the lord with all your heart.
lean not on your own understanding…
be not wise in your own eyes…

I don�t seem to be able to �fulfill those requirements.�
How�s that been working for you?

5 - How about - Pray without ceasing? 1The 5:17

Nope… not this one either…

Hmmm? Does God ask us to do stuff…
�with the intent that someone would never be able to fulfill those requirements?�

Bet you guys could think of a few more.

What say ye?
A. Amos Love on Fri, April 30, 2010

CS - Peter - Curious

here�s another one…

How about - Go… make disciples…
How many �Disciples of Christ� have you made? Hmmm?

Not converts, or confessions of faith, or repenters of sin.
Not someone who joined �your church,� or became �your disciple.�
Not a disciple of your denomination, a disciple of Calvin or Arminius.
Not a disciple of your favorite doctrine, Charismatic, Reformed, etc…
BUT, a living, breathing, �Disciple of Christ.�

The question became for me…
Do you want to be a �pastor/leader?� OR…
Do you want to be a �Disciple of Christ?�

And to be a �Disciple of Christ� it will cost you;

A �Disciple of Christ�
Will;
Forsake all…
Hear His voice…
Love not the world…
Love not their own life…
Just want to know Him…
Count all things but dung…
Always take the lower place…
Do nothing apart from Jesus…
Take on the form of a servant…
Make themselves of no reputation…
Count others better then themselves…
Gives thanks for all things… All things? Yes.
Deny themselves and pick up their cross daily…
Count all the shame, �joy,� for what lies before them…
Love the Lord their God, love their neighbors, love themselves…
Forsake all honor, glory, praise, power, profit, prestige, recognition, reputation…

A �Disciple of Christ�
Will NOT;
Lord it over…
Exercise authority…
Honor themselves…
Seek their own glory…
Be called rabbi/teacher…
Be called Master/leader…
Receive honor from man…

Peace…
Peter Hamm on Fri, April 30, 2010

Amos,

You make good points, but they have, imho, nothing to do with the fact that if you believe you can cast off all earthly spiritual accountability and submission to leadership, you are not submitting to God’s clearly setup structures of the Kingdom.

I’m sorry, it sounds like you’re saying on one hand, if it can’t be done perfectly, it won’t be done at all, and on the other hand, I will try my best to make disciples. You can’t, again, have it both ways.
CS on Fri, April 30, 2010

A Amos:

Peter said it right on. You can’t say, “Hey these guys don’t meet all the requirements perfectly, therefore they can’t be elders,” and then say, “Hey , we don’t meet all of the Law perfectly, yet we’re still Christians.”

Also, what I’ve think you’ve done here is that you used the Law unlawfully (1 Timothy 1:8). Rather than using it to expound upon grace, you’ve turned it into a legalistic list of requirements for someone’s salvation. How many of the Ten Commandments do you have to keep? How many disciples do you have to make to be right?

—
CS
A. Amos Love on Sat, May 01, 2010

Peter - CS

Are you an �elder/pastor/leader/authority?�

Do you �Qualify� as an �elder/pastor/leader/authority?�

**blameless—- unrebukeable, without fault.
husband of one wife—- married, male.
rules well his own house—- have a family, children.
not greedy of filthy lucre—- Not greedy for money.
vigilant—- no excessive wine, calm in spirit.
sober—- of a sound mind, self controlled.
of good behavior—- modest, unassuming, reserved.
no striker—- not quarrelsome, contentious.
not a brawler—- abstaining from fighting.
not self willed—- not self pleasing, not arrogant.
not soon angry—not prone to anger.
temperate—- having power over, restraining.
**holy—- undefiled by sin, free from wickedness.
**just—- righteous, virtuous, innocent, faultless.

Also your children.

�having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly�

**faithful—- believing, one who trusts in God’s promises.
**not accused of riot—- Strongs - asotia—- unsavedness.
...an abandoned dissolute life, lost to principle.
**unruly—- disobedient.
Casey Sabella on Sat, May 01, 2010

I am not sure how this post (which has nothing to do with eldership) has become such a doctrinal dissertation on who gets to lead.

For the record, I have never met a soul who perfectly fulfills these qualifications, so I guess we’re stuck with whatever is left. If leadership was merely a matter of being qualified by character alone, both Paul and Peter would have failed since both were hot heads.
CS on Sat, May 01, 2010

A Amos:

“Are you an elder/pastor/leader/authority?”

No. I’m an evangelist and teacher. But I submit to my pastors.

“Do you Qualify as an elder/pastor/leader/authority?”

No, but not necessarily for the conditions you listed. I know I am too young in my Christian faith to yet qualify. As I get older, I plan on going to seminary, perhaps when my children are grown, so I will have that wisdom that should go along with being a pastor.

But what does that have to do with the most recent part of this conversation?

—
CS
A. Amos Love on Sun, May 02, 2010

Casey

Yea. We kinda got off topic.
But, there is this �elder/pastor/leader???� in the article
and there are questions about �his� actions and �leadership� abilities.
Saying some ugly things about the lady - true or false, still ugly?
And, something hard to find in the Bible, Slain in the Spirit?

I have seen much �Spiritual Abuse� by those who took the �Title� of
elder/pastor/leader/authority. They would �lord it over� God�s heritage.

I was taught to be a Berean and check things out. Acts 17:10-11.
And study to show yourself approved. 2 Tim 2:15.

When searching the scriptures I find
NOT one person �called� pastor or reverend.
NOT one person with the �Title� pastor or reverend.
NOT one congregation �led� by a pastor or a reverend.
NOT one person required to �submit� to a pastor or a reverend.

So now, when some one has the �Title� elder/pastor/leader/reverend
I�m no longer willing to overlook certain things in those who say
they are �Special One�s,��God�s ordained authority� = �elder/pastor/leader.�

And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labor among you…
1 Thessalonians 5:12

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God…
1 John 4:1

You write…
�For the record, I have never met a soul who perfectly fulfills these qualifications,
so I guess we�re stuck with whatever is left.�

Didn�t Paul also leave us a way out �if� we can�t find someone who qualifies.

In Titus 1:5, Paul tells Titus, to ordain elders in every city.
But in verse 6 Paul leaves a way out (?) saying, �If� any �be blameless.�

This is a very large, little, word: �IF.� This �IF� is many times in scripture.
In verse 7 he explains why he leaves an opening.

For a bishop �must be blameless.�

Paul didn�t say �they� can grow into being blameless.
To be ordained bishop �they� must �be� blameless.

Titus 1:6 If any be blameless…
Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless…

I believe God has something much better then - �stuck with whatever is left.�

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.
John 6:45

Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice,
that he might instruct thee:
Deuteronomy 4:36

I will instruct thee and teach thee
in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psalms 32:8

And Paul and Peter never called themselves �Leadership.� (a high place)
They called themselves �Servants of Christ.� (a low place)
�Being in Leadership� is EXclusive. Only for �The Special One�s.�
�Being a Servant� is INclusive. Available for everyone.
Or, at least for those who are NOT seeking �Titles� and the extras.
Power, profit, prestige, glory, honor, reputation, recognition, etc…

You know - those things Jesus spoke against.

Jesus told �His disciples� not to be called “leaders” and none did.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,
Php 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,
Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ,
Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God,
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
and there shall be �ONE� fold, and �ONE� shepherd.
John 10:16

One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice.
If Not Now, When?

Be blessed in your search for truth… Jesus…