Church Billboard Responds to Thief: “Stealing from God… Ballsy”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, April 03, 2008
- Viewed 389
- (77) comments so far
You can also check out their website here.
Thanks for the heads, up Steve!
What do you think about Kinetic Church’s plans to reach out to the thief who stole nearly everything they had?
Ok... here's the scenario: You're a theatre church, and one of the trailers that houses all of your church's stuff is stolen. What is your response? Well, when this happened to Kinetic Church, they decided to go on the offensive, purchasing billboards and creating a Youtube Video aimed directly at the thief. Take a look...
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CS on Fri, April 04, 2008
Leonard:
“I would suggest opening up to what people are saying not looking for the flaw.”
As I explained earlier in this thread, I listened to the complete message, heard something that sent up a red flag, showed why that language concerns me, but praised the overall message.
“As for the word ballsy… don’t create a false argument about scantily clad… or profanity.”
Let’s dive a little deeper into this, and to warn people, unfortunately, I will have to go into vulgar etymology here.
The word, “ballsy,” comes from the colloquialism that an action, “takes a lot of balls.” By, “balls,” this word is referring to male genitalia, from which, it is said, someone has courage. So if you have, “big balls,” you have a lot of gumption, or guts, to do something.
In other words, we have a church using a vulgarity about testicles to make a point about the bravado thieves used in their crime. Doesn’t this exactly go against the type of coarse jesting or filthy language recommended against in Ephesians 5 or Colossians 3?
By the same token, it would also fall into the same realm as profanity in light of Scripture. So when we have people saying that the use of an f-bomb would be fine in this situation, I have to ask, “what are they thinking?” and my “straw man” argument takes merit.
Judging from J’s comment, too, it looks like others in their church are also having problems with the billboard as well. Perhaps not with the language directly, per se, but with the mixed messages, too.
—
CS
J on Fri, April 04, 2008
Dave,
I’m sorry. This was not the place to voice my concerns.
Leonard on Fri, April 04, 2008
I know where the word Ballsy comes from, but thanks for the lesson, I just don’t agree it is the illustration of Paul’s words in Ephesians or Colossians. I don’t think it is the same as the F-Bomb either.
It is a false argument since it is also not what the church did. To take a common phrase and that every person not looking for a flaw sees as courage or gutsy and equate it with sex or the f-bomb to make a point is one step too many in my opinion.
It happens when we look for what is wrong instead of what is actually being said.
nathan on Fri, April 04, 2008
it saddens me that this has become a place of bickering and arguing among people who ultimately have the same goal: people knowing Jesus.
maybe this thread should just stop here, and we all go spend some time reflecting on what has been accomplished through these arguments. nothing good. isn’t this what paul warned timothy to stay away from?
CS on Fri, April 04, 2008
nathan:
I like the idea of the Rodney King, “Can’t we all just get along?” mentality, and wished that we didn’t have squabbles, too. But, like Paul said to Timothy, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Tim 2:15) We cannot have unity at the forsaking of truth.
We have to be looking at everything to see where it is in light of Scripture, because, as Paul also warned Timothy, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.”
Am I saying that this church is giving into the seducing spirits or the doctrines of devils? Absolutely not. But I stand by my statement that “ballsy” is what Paul was decrying in Ephesians and Colossians, and that is something that needs to be denounced.
—
CS
Gman on Fri, April 04, 2008
I appreciate Kinetic. I enjoy Dave’s heart and know him and Daniel. I’m just glad God is using them. I pray that whoever did this; comes to Jesus and the focus isn’t on “one word” but on the WORD who became flesh and dwelt among us.
Nathan B. on Sat, April 05, 2008
“Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.”
It seems to me that Paul’s injunction against coarse joking has to do with irreverent and godless talk. And we all agree that the ultimate intention of these billboards and video are to ‘give grace to those who hear’. Both the thieves and the public.
They are attempting to communicate in a way that will understood by their audience and build them up. Dropping the f-bomb would have a different effect then ballsy. The f-bomb is a very strong invective, whereas ‘ballsy’ feels more diffusing of the situation rather than condemning the perps.
Nathan B. on Sat, April 05, 2008
And incidentally, on the discussion of referencing male anatomy and it’s appropriateness in well-publicized communication—wasn’t Paul who wished that the False Teachers in Galatia would “castrate themselves”? If Paul can say something as invective and condemning as that, then surely ‘ballsy’ is a bit tame in comparison.
Luke on Sat, April 05, 2008
CS- (AKA Master Yoda)
I found this on http://www.jonathanbow.com, I thought you might enjoy it!
<embed src= “http://www.jonathanbow.com/carry_the_light/files/star_wars_spoof.mov” height=“400” width=“400” autostart=“0”></embed>
Luke on Sat, April 05, 2008
<embed src= “http://www.jonathanbow.com/carry_the_light/files/star_wars_spoof.mov” height=“400” width=“400” autostart=“0”></embed>
sorry here’s the video….
CS on Sat, April 05, 2008
Luke:
Fail the URL hotlinking you do.
—
CS
Luke on Sat, April 05, 2008
Ha! CS, you crack me up!
I’ll try again: (apparently you can’t embed video here)
http://www.jonathanbow.com/carry_the_light/2008/04/potty-talker.html
Confused at Kinetic on Sun, April 06, 2008
I am also a member of Kinetic. While I whole-heartedly support the leadership of our church, I really believe that this issue has done a great deal to hurt many within our congregation.
Yes, there are a lot of people who stand behind the billboard campaign. Yet there are many who do not.
I love Dave, but he did make this decision while only consulting a very small percentage of our body. Yet, each billboard is signed with the tag-line “kineticchurch.com.” Like it or not, such a signature implies that the entire congregation is speaking with one voice. This is not the case.
Dave has no idea just how many people are hurt by this move. I hope it will blow over in time, but this may well serve as a moment in our young history that serves as a turning point. Hopefully it will be one for the better. I fear that it will ultimately lead to many looking elsewhere. I personally do not want to leave Kinetic. However, unless Dave does something to unify the church at this time, I too will start looking for a new place to call home.
I was approached at work last week by a woman who liked the forgiveness aspect of the billboards and the humor found in some of the messages. However, as a fellow believer she was horrified to have to explain to her 6-year old daughter what “ballsy” meant, and why it was on a church sign. In loving my church, there was nothing I could do to rationalize the need for such a statement.
I love Dave. He is a man of God, and has embraced me since day 1. However, its time for the church to turn away the tv cameras and the publicity, because many of us just want a church, not a reality tv show. Leave the drama where it belongs.
I trust Dave will do the right thing in the days ahead. He must continue to push forward in the days ahead with a positive campaign to spread God’s word, love, and mercy. Yet, he also needs to turn around and tend to the flock who have stood behind him for so long, but who have been offended by these signs, and the attention that may be doing more harm than good.
Wendi on Sun, April 06, 2008
Pastor Dave and others from Kinetic –
Thank you for joining into this discussion. Your commitment to your church and desire to reach the lost is clear from your comments.
However, from an outsider looking in (which is what a passing motorist would be), the billboards do not communicate grace. Several drip with sarcasm (“Enjoying our communion trays?” and “Ever worry about lightening strikes?”) Although one suggests God’s forgiveness, none communicate the church’s. Rather, in them I read an air of bitterness and resentment. To an outsider reading them, your motive appears to be to cause the trailer thieves to squirm, perhaps feel guilty. I cannot imagine how reading any of these billboards would draw someone to your church. Furthermore, I can’t help but think that the impression these boards leave with the community is that Kinetic is very concerned about getting their stuff back. When I went to your webpage, the first image that came up was asking for financial help to replace the stolen stuff. Reading it, I can’t help but wonder how much money was spent on billboards for the purpose, it seems, of making the thieves feel bad.
The website also shows some really great things going on, a commitment to the community, serving the least, the last, the lost. Could an outsider on the other side of the country encourage your church to stop spending valuable energy the trailer issue and get back to what you clearly do so well?
Also Nathan, who expressed concern about our bickering and arguing. Todd searches for news and information about innovative churches, provides the information so we can read, discern, discuss and learn from the information and from other perspectives. It is valuable to discuss this “advertizing campaign,” as it helps us consider how we communicate to the community. The comments indicate that there is disagreement about Kinetic’s methods, but I don’t see it as arguing or bickering.
Wendi
BR on Mon, April 07, 2008
Aren’t Christians allowed to be PO’d? Are they not allowed to express both anger and forgiveness? Curiously watching
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