How to Make a Great Impression on Potential Employers
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, July 12, 2005
- Viewed 86
- (25) comments so far
Thanks for all that you do at Churchstaffing; I have utilized your services on ?both sides of the fence? from searching for God?s place for me and my family and also for seeking qualified staff members to serve on our staff. I thought your article was very interesting and I can certainly understand the individual?s dilemma in their staff search. However, I would like to point out that there are two sides to every story.
As a staff member in a ?larger church? who is actually searching for a ?media? person to fill a vacancy, I have also noticed some interesting trends from the individuals who apply for media positions. I would say that 8 out of 10 people who have responded to our ads have been individuals who come from a secular workplace. I think that is great, but often they come into a search process with very different and often unrealistic expectations.
For example, an individual sent me his resume and showed me examples of his work online. He was an amazingly talented individual, and I had several very positive e-mail interactions with him. At one time, I would say that he was my number one candidate.
In order to explain the situation a little better, it would be helpful to understand how our particular process worked. In the ad that I had placed, I had clearly defined the requirements for the position and the items that were necessities to be considered at our church. For example, in order to enter the process, I initially had to have a resume and a DVD with examples of their work. Upon receipt of the resume, I would immediately forward a few documents to the individual that told them more about our church and about the position. After all, the search process is two-sided. We need to know if they might be a fit for us and vice versa. If after reviewing the resume, the individual seemed like they might be a ?fit,? I would initiate some e-mail dialogue and send a questionnaire. Once that was returned, and if everything looked good, we prepared a project that would help us see what their skills and work-ethic might be like if we were to work together.
As you, or anyone who has ever been through a search process with a church, know, the process is very different from the secular world. The individual that I mentioned earlier did not follow through with very specific items that were requested. After several requests for the DVD that was requested in the ad and after not receiving it, I began to get a picture of what it might be like to work with this individual.
On the other hand, after receiving some positive materials and giving some feedback, the individual wrote to me one day and asked (quite seriously, I might add), ?When can I start?? That really threw me off; to me, it seemed like this individual probably didn?t understand how the process differs from the secular world. Obviously, in the church we are looking for competency, but also character, chemistry and most importantly, God?s will. Additionally, within the church there are typically several layers of decision-makers. There are certainly positives and negatives to this, but regardless of the outcome, it definitely makes the process more time-consuming.
During this time, I continued to keep in contact via e-mail to let the individual know where we were in our process. After three weeks had passed, we were just about at the point where we were going to begin interviews. (Keep in mind, that the individual that I mentioned earlier was my ?number one? candidate.) Right before I contacted individuals, I received an e-mail from my ?number one? absolutely blasting me for allegedly ?not following through? in our process (while I had clearly indicated that I was waiting on materials from him) and that he recommended that I ?take a college course in courtesy.? (And YES, this is a verbatim quote.) Well, obviously, his placement in the search made a HUGE decline after that!!
In conclusion, the point that I would like to make is this: courtesy and follow-through are the responsibility of both parties. Obviously, we are all human and make mistakes. I am sure as the lead person in our search, I have made many, and I believe your article was certainly an encouragement to avoid pitfalls in the future. In reality, communication is essential from everyone. Courtesy, follow-through, and an understanding for either the position that we are applying for or how a staffing process works within a church are crucial elements. As the saying goes, ?if all else fails, ask!? Many potential conflicts and misunderstandings could be resolved right there. On our end, we ask any questions that we have of our candidates and encourage them to do the same. In the end, we are all seeking the same thing: God?s will for our lives and ministries and for the churches in which we serve.
It really is a balance. You really do have to remember one thing as the job seeker... you are at the mercy of the church that is hiring you: you are on their time-table; you have to go through their process and supply the things that they want; and you have to do so in a manner that displays your true personality and abilities. Everything you say and do before your hire is being measured up as an example of what you might say or do as an employee.
Any comments about this 'other side of the coin'? As a person who hires church staff members, does this ring true with your experiences? As a person who seeks church employment, what are your comments? I'd love to hear them today!
Last week we discussed how many churches drop the ball in communicating with applicants to their job openings. You could tell that we really hit on a topic that many job seekers could relate to. But this week, we’re going to look at the other side of the coin. Just as it is important for churches to use professionalism and respect with their job applicants, it is also important for the job applicant to understand how many churches operate when it comes to hiring. I received another letter this week that also gave some details of this perspective. Here’s part of that letter: Dear Todd…
Comments
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David Gillaspey on Tue, July 12, 2005
Three comments:
1. Did your ad specify what kind of DVD was required? Were you expecting a DVD-ROM, which only works on a computer, or the type of DVD that can be played in a home DVD player as well as on a computer?
2. You outlined your church’s application review process in your letter. Was this review process clearly set forth in your ad or elsewhere? Do applicants know in advance how your application review process works?
3. You wrote, “Upon receipt of the resume [and DVD??], I would immediately forward a few documents to the individual that told them more about our church and about the position. “
What? You didn’t make this available on your church website from the start? You are expecting applicants to take the time and effort to prepare a resume (and presumably a DVD) and send it to you. Only then do you make available to them documents to help them to determine if your church is a good fit for them? Wouldn’t it make more sense to make these documents available up front, downloadable from a page on your church website? Wouldn’t that save everybody time and effort? Further, applicants ought to be able to glean much information about your church to begin with from your church website.
Sincerely,
David Gillaspey
Wayne Jones on Tue, July 12, 2005
The letter dealing with the other side of the issue was intersting to me. It seems that many churches have unrealistic expectations when it comes to the information they want from a potential employee. I served two churches that grew to over 2,000 in attendance as an Executive Pastor. Most of the churches who have contactec me want a DVD my teaching.
What many churches do not recognize is that those of us who have served in roles other than that of a Senior Pastor do not readily have a DVD of our teaching because most media groups in our churches don’t consider it important enough to make a copy of the “secondary” teachers in the church.
What do these churches really want? Someone with the skills to grow a healthy and dynamic church or another DVD?
Russ Sharrock on Tue, July 12, 2005
I agree that communication is a two way street, and is the responsibility of both parties. Unfortunately, my experience is that many churches have a lack of understanding about the process of hiring. In the last eight months I have sent out over 120 resumes. Out of that number only ten even had the courtesy to acknowledge receiving the resume. To me, that is one of the sad facts about the church today, their complacency, whether its God’s role in their life, or dealing with employing staff. Not to mention their unrealistic expectations (but that’s for another thread).
Chris on Tue, July 12, 2005
The search process for a ministry position is a delicate process for all involved. The position this letter involved was a media position. A DVD should not have been out of the question.
I’m currently in a job search of my own, and generally see the volume of information a church requests as a positive indicator of that church’s administration and care in selecting a person to fill their opening. It also gives me a chance to examine what type of work environment I would be entering by accepting their position. In addition, I get a glimpse into the priorities and values of a prospective ministry through the questions they ask and information they request.
Unfortunately, I’ve had to learn the hard way. It’s better to have a little blood, sweat, and tears on the front end than heartbreak once I arrive in a ministry position.
Michael Friday on Tue, July 12, 2005
That troubles me, too, Wayne. Requiring DVD from someone being hired for a media position may not be that inappropriate, but I worry when this is required of pastoral candidates. Assuming that, primarily, it is God who is calling (rather than the church HIRING - ugly word in pastoral context! Anybody remembers John 10:12-13?) then we are to further assume that God can (as He certainly HAS in the past) call from anywhere! These kinds of requirements (for example a DVD of one teaching) effectively eliminate the person who may the the ideal candidate but who may be serving in a little rural (and “equipment-challenged”) church. Whatever happened to the good old audio-tape? While I understand the search committee’s need for a sample of the work of persons being considered for pastoral positions, I should think that they should, more importantly, be concerned about other things which go beyond a resume and a DVD. Too often I have had committees dismiss me as “not being the right profile” and they have not engaged me in any fundamental, but serious, questions (via a short questionnaire, for example) about ministry, leadership, vision, theological concerns or ministry competence. I guess I am suggesting that, in the apiritual/ecclesiologial arena, resumes are perhaps the least (and maybe laziest) mode of learning something about your candidates, despite the secular world’s “success” with it. Anybody our there feels the same way?
Jeff Davis on Tue, July 12, 2005
The thing that I see is, the employer looks like they have the prospect under to much sbjection. To close to being secular job.
It should be both sides under subjection of the Lord or at his mercy. Not the employer or the empolyee. sometimes the one trying to get the job , which it should not be a job it should be a calling. this person should not feal as they are under a magnifying glass, from the big kid a school.
Jack on Tue, July 12, 2005
Hi. Are you still looking for a media director? If so, I am a Worship and Media Pastor currently looking. However, because I have felt led to leave my last church in search for another, (for reasons of sin in the clergy that is unrepentant) and I have no ability to make a DVD of my abilities. However, I have better than 16 years of participation in the Music Ministries of which 11 are positions involving leadership.
My background stems from many years of private instruction on guitar and drums and I have the equalivant of Theory 3 in training as well as the equivalent of an AA in thrology by classes offered in church. Hermaneutics, Greek (1st year), Eschatology, and have a good understanding of the role of leadership and teaching.
More frim my music background… I have worked in recording studios as an apprentice sound engineer and sound technician for live events, have multi-media training and worked professionally in a band (Lazarus) promoted and published by Great Divide Records in Colorado. A BMI and GMA member since 1998.
Personal life: I am married with one child and one on the way. 36 years old and in August will be 37. My hearts desire is to bring people to an understanding of God’s will for their lives by teaching the Word through music.
Now… with that said. I have applied to several churches that match my experience and to my surprise, I am unqualified due to the fact that I do not have a degree in music. This astounds me. But if that is what the qualification is for a Worship pastor for their churches, then I don’t want the job. I want to serve my God and King in a church that has as their greatest need, someone who is filled with the Spirit with a desire to serve God with their talents. the rest is important, but should be understood that a novice in music probably isn’t called to lead music. With examples from 2 Cron. showing that the skilled musicians were called of the line of Levi to serve as the chief musicians, and one to serve as the captian of the chief who was Chenaniah. I too believe that this format should be in combination with the desire.
Now I don’t expect you to hire me from this letter, but maybe you could find another way to research candidates outside of the DVD. Some of us who are on fire for Christ who have the capabilities and years of experience would love to work with you and develop a wonderful worship and praise service that is centered on God rather than on us.
Please don’t take this as a rebuke, that is not what I intended but rather another side of the “coin”. I really hope that God will find you what you are looking for, but at the same time I hope you consider even those who haven’t the means to provide you with all you ask. You may miss a wonderful minister of God by looking at the criteria you set rather than what God is providing.
Thanks
Jack
lance on Tue, July 12, 2005
I think there may be a misunderstanding here. The dvd is to be a sample of media work. Anyone applying for media director that can’t put together a dvd for the process is the equivalent of a model wanting to be hired sight unseen and refuses to send a portfolio of pictures… it just doesn’t make sense.
lance
Anonymous on Tue, July 12, 2005
I am presently in the process of being interviewed for a large church as Director of Counseling Ministries. It has been a lengthy process since I sent my resume 4 month ago, but I feel that their thoroughness in selecting staff members, although gut-wrenching at times, only serves to give me confidence in their leadership and judgement in that I can rest assured the next staff person they hire after me will have also been checked out thoroughly, therefore giving me a greater sense of peace about who I am working alongside of.
I think there are too many churches that their leadership are too lax in hiring. They are often times desperate to fill a position and that tends to make them jump at the first “decent” applicant to come along. You see, I have personally seen a pastor I worked with jump way too soon at hiring a youth pastor 2 seperate times. One situation I am speaking of involved a youth pastor our pastor hired who turned out to have an alcoholic wife who would disappear for days at a time and whom was finally arrested when the police were called to their home one night due to a domestic disturbance. To fill his vacancy, our pastor, only 4 months later, quickly hired another young man, this one single, as youth pastor who turned out to have an addiction to pornography and embezzled money from the youth account to the tune of several thousand dollars in an eight month span.
Sure, right now, being in the thick of the candidating process, it’s taking longer than I would like, but truthfully speaking, I’d rather see a church demonstrate to me how serious thay take ministry by taking a little longer and asking a few more questions than to be caught in a situation where the leadership moves forward irresponsibly without really seeking the Lord first.
Larry on Tue, July 12, 2005
To me, the issue here is not whether or not a church should have certain requirements for those who would candidate for staff positions. That is up to the church to decide what skills, experience, and education they want for a staff member. If they want a DVD then that is what they want. If you do not think that it is fair, right or biblical to ask for such requirements, then just move on and apply for another position. When I hire staff (after prayer and analyzing the position’s needs) and I clearly list the requirements (education, gifting, experience, etc.) that we are asking for I am amazed at how many resumes I will receive that do not even come close to what requirements we are looking for. I guess I am trying to say that candidates should let the churches decide how God is leading them and who they should bring on staff.
don on Tue, July 12, 2005
I have been going through this process for the last several months and found it quite frustrating. After spending 15 years in full time ministry and leaving temporarily to deal with a tragic death of a family member, I have learned the church desperately needs help in this area. I have been working a secular job in professional production and if the secular world operated like most churches, nothing would ever happen. What I have found two things to be very frustrating. One is the lack of response from pastors or search committees and two, search committees not being qualified to properly evaluate candidates to fill their position. As a person seeking a position I too am evaluating churches I apply to and the way they communicate to me speaks volumes on if I want to work there. A church that cannot keep potential candidates informed on their process has issues besides needing more staff. I have no problem with a church asking a candidate to prove their skills but does the church have qualified people to evaluate those skills? I have answered pages of questionairres taking painstaking hours to complete only to never hear another word from the church. I have made tapes, rented CD recorders to make CD’s from tapes because churches only want CD’s, all of which take time and finances to try to get your foot in the interview door only to get a generic “you don’t meet our qulaifications” letter. I understand chemistry, the right fit even doctrinal compatibility and all the other phrases we use but common courtesy has to fit in there somewhere. I had a church drag me along for six months, including phone conversations, e-mails, questionnaires and personal interviews only to find out that they had moved on to another candidate without telling me. I was waiting to get a date from them to take my family to the church for a final interview. Pastors and churches need to realize that potential pastor’s lives and families are also involved. They either need to fish or cut bait. Churches should be able to do honest evaluations for the position being filled. If a candidate is no longer in the running, let them know so they can move on as well.
Larry Collins on Tue, July 12, 2005
I’ve posted here before so you may know I come from a 12 years in corporate HR as well as 10 years in full- and part-time ministry.
I think the problem here was with the process (Ok, in the end it was with the individual, too, but let’s try to see why he reacted the way he did at the end.)
Interviewees should not be required to “peel the onion” or “run the gauntlet”. By “peel the onion,” I mean the process should not be a discovery as they go along (“Ok, you’ve done that.. now do this.. now do this… now do this.”) They should be told up front what the process will be in total and where the checkpoints are where they might be eliminated from the process. That gives them a view of both (1) all that will be required of them, and (2) how long it will take. In addition, candidates should be told how long the church thinks it will take to make a final decision and who all will be involved in the decision. Doing these two things sets expections from the beginning that this is not going to be a 2-week process (like it can be in the corporate world where competency can sometimes be more important than fit.) With regard to to my comment “run the gauntlet” I’m referring to those churches/companies that require face-to-face interviews with lots of people or on multiple occasions. This is ESPECIALLY true when the interviews are not coordinated. There is nothing worse than being asked the same questions over and over by person after person. If you want to all here the same answers, then have a colletive interview. Coodinated interviews require each interviewer to focus on specific areas (skill, background, fit, personality, explanation about the church/company, etc.) and then the interviewers either meet to discuss the candidate as a committee-of-the-whole or submit written comments to a final decision-maker.
Yes, interviewing is a two-way street. The hiring church wants to get the right person, and the interviewee wants to get the right job. It’s a push/pull from both sides that requires preparation and profesisonalism on both sides.
Jim on Tue, July 12, 2005
I have also been on both sides of this process. I used an add on church staffing to help the church I left a couple of years ago begin the process of searching for a new pastor and have recently been sending some resumes in search of a new opportunity myself. Anyway, here are the two things that I’ve run into. First, I could not believe how many pastors are just sending resumes right and left without even knowing where the church they are sending a resume to is located! We were in central Kansas rural setting, a town of 1,000 people and got resumes from guys in California looking to move up to a larger setting! I personally called about 50 people who had sent resumes and my first question was, “Do you know where XXXXX, KS is located. Only 4 out of 50 had even bothered to get out the map and check the location of the town! It’s unbelievable to me that someone would just fire off a resume without even knowing where they were sending it. The bottom line is this makes it really difficult for churches to wade through all the mess that they get and try to select potential candidates. I can understand why churches feel compelled to ask so many questions and have candidates jump through so many hoops trying to sort out the players.
On the other side of that coin I have to agree that churches should do a much better job of communicating with candidates who send resumes. 8 out of 10 churches never even acknowledge receiving my resume. One church called 3 months after I sent my resume and asked if they could send me more questions. I didn’t even know they were considering me! Finally, I wholeheartedly agree with those who’ve stated that churches seem only interested in degrees and dvds. I’ve got a pretty good resume and have been blessed with fruitful ministry over 15 years but my education doesn’t include a masters or a doctorate so I don’t even qualify to send a resume based on most of the qualifications pulpit teams lay out now.
Michael Friday on Tue, July 12, 2005
Hey Don, you hit the nail on the head! “...search committees (are) not…qualified to properly evaluate candidates to fill their position.”
I have formed the opinion (based on some observations and experience) that Search Committees are, largely, unprepared for the task they face. For one, there seem to be few that follow denominational standards if their denominations bother to set them! The independent churches, of course, are free to set their own standards. Even where standards are absent, committees do not seem to sit and think through strategy and procedure, BEARING THE APPLICANTS in mind as well as their needs!
Additionally, while the Internet is helpful in exposing churches as broadly and widely as possible, it is clear that search committees are not prepared for the deluge of applicants they receive via this medium, and incapable of responding to each applicant in a proper, meaningful and timely manner, if they respond at all!
Church leadership everywhere should ensure that, as part of their regular training course offerings, “Search Committee Procedures 101” should also appear.
Neil on Tue, July 12, 2005
While the efforts to aid searchers is appreciated, I would like comments qualifying postings. While I have tried to keep my searches in a surrounding states area, I have also found not all churches know what they want.
A few months ago, a web based job board contained notice of a job in another southeastern state. After speaking with a fellow administrator friend in that city to learn more about the advertising church, I took the additional step to call the listed church contact to verify they were accepting out of state applications. I was told they were. In following up a week after the posted deadline, in speaking with the pastor I was told “We have no money for interviewing!” Needless to say the extensive time used in research of the facility and city was wasted. In todays use of web based job boards is the applicant expected to bear all travel costs—both those for the interview and relocation if hired?
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