Innovation: Is Your Church “Beyond the Box”?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, December 13, 2004
- Viewed 116
- (35) comments so far
According to Easum/Travis, many 'Inside the Box' and 'Outside the Box' churches are cluttered with so much 'box baggage' that many of the questions they are asking don't have much meaning anymore. They automatically assume that certain things are normal or natural in Christianity (they site such things as hierarchy, structure, organization, property, location, conflict, centralized control, ordination, clergy, seminaries, and denominations.)
Many thriving congregations, they say, aren't anywhere near 'Beyond the Box'... still spending much of their time swirling with old assumptions, causing them to "waste their potential fighting battles that no longer matter." Look, for example, at the three ways they would categorize most churches:
| In the Box | Out of the Box | Beyond the Box |
| Stuck and dying | Thriving and growing | Radically innovative |
| Property is important | Relocate or expand | Property agnostic |
| Looking for help | Holistic growth | Pursuing opportunity |
| Interventionist/restart | How to grow our church | Missionary mindset |
| Survives/protects heritage | Institutional effectiveness | Kingdom orientation |
| Organization, polity, control | Decentralized | Reproductive |
| Maintains | Adds | Multiplies |
| No DNA | Unembedded DNA | Gives DNA away |
| Culturally ignorant | Invites public in | Goes out and sends |
| Protects heritage | Willing to be adaptive | Radical innovation |
| Controlling | Benevolent hierarchy | Gospel is everything |
| Elects slot fillers | Trains key leaders | Models leadership |
| Avoids change | Comfortable with change | Embraces change |
| Chaplain | Career | Missionary/apostle |
| Slave to constitution | Ignores constitution | Flexible guidelines |
| Members | Volunteers | Discipled servants |
| Staff are doers | Staff are equippers | Equipping culture |
OK... before you fire me off an angry email saying that this book and books like it cause harm to the church because they tell us to change our message; water down the gospel; disregard important traditions, cause the church to be like the world, are only based on a business-model mindset, or anything else; please take a deep breath... that is not the intention of this book. The purpose of this book is to think of innovative ways for your church to reach people in your community for Christ, not for your church to become more hip, theologically liberal, or popular.
Where does your church land on this table? Does your church have a lot of 'box baggage'? Let's discuss this idea. You can get in on the conversation and give your 2 cents worth easily and quickly by leaving your comments. Let me know how your church rated... are you "In the Box", "Out of the Box" or "Beyond the Box"? What is your church doing that's innovative?
Would you like some new ideas at how your church can be more effective in the next five years? If so, I would encourage you to grab a copy of Bill and Dave's book. It's a easy, but thought-provoking read... a book that may very well open your eyes to ways that your church can be more effective in your community.
Last week, I opened a huge can of worms talking about the subject of churches and innovation. I heard back from many of you. In fact, we have a great discussion going on currently at the daily blog on the issue (that I’m sure will continue this week). It is true that innovation means different things to different people. The same church that finds one thing to be innovative would view another church’s innovation as mundane. But regardless, it makes for some fascinating discussion (at least it fascinates me!)
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Comments
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Jerry on Mon, December 13, 2004
I tell you what, I can be in the box, I can be out of the box. I dont go along with every new wim but I do like to be innovative. But if all these people spent as much time in the Bible and on their knees looking for ideas and answers as they do looking for some man made concoction to remedy the situation….....just remember that what ever the new innovations are that whithout the Holy Spirit you have unchanged converts. True transformation is evedent in changed lives. I think we put to much importance on numbers in the Church today.
When I go fishing with a guide I expect to catch fish, based on the ability of the guide. When I go fishing for men I go on the ability of the gude, the Holy Spirit. My first inclination whould be to someone who is not catching would be that this person is not going with the guide, or else he is not fishing. Innovative lures help me catch more fish, but innovative lures will not help non-fishermen. Success comes from the guide putting you in the right place. The power comes from Bible study and prayer not from secular books. I said this before and I say it again. Too many pastors are searching for answers outside the book. AS for me I will continue to read outside material but my main “seeking” will be inside the book and on my knees.
Anil Landge on Mon, December 13, 2004
Let’s forget in box, out box and beyond box but make church christ oriented then we will be in all box some time or not at all.
Jim Eaton on Mon, December 13, 2004
Any institutionalized church, if we will ever get real enough to be honest, will be recognized for what it really is. It is man’s feeble attempt to take control of and manage the Kingdom of God. To even discuss the whole idea of where an institutional church is as relates to “The Box” and “Innovation” is in itself a fruitless endeavor. The institution does not love God or His people. The institution has no compassion for the lost and hurting in this world. The institution does not care about relationships at all. The institution is not born from above. The institution is not sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit. The institution, in fact, always has and always will, have only one single motivational force behind anything and everything it ever does or allows its members to do. SURVIVAL AND SELF-PERPETUATION!!!! If we think for one minute that we are ever going to have an institutionalized church that is truly controlled by, directed by and anointed by the Lord, we are sadly deceived! It ain’t gunna happen!!! It would literally be an oximoron (sp?). I know it sounds like I’m condemning the whole organized church thing but that is not at all where I’m coming from. I am and have been for many years an actively involved Pastor in one of the churches you all are calling “Beyond the Box”. The way I see it is that we have to walk out this paradoxical Kingdom of God in the Earth thing making use of what life has given us. The fact is, “MAN” decided to organize and institutionalize something that literally cannot be harnessed or controlled. The Church is a Spiritual Body and everything about it is 100% relationship and other world focused. Jesus said He did nothing but what He saw His Father in Heaven doing. If our goal and work and efforts are anything short of that…well…we might be doing some good stuff…but it isn’t Kingdom stuff and it isn’t God. Personally, I do a whole lot of that kind of activity, piling up wood hay and stubble, in the name of Christianity, the Great Commission and Church life in general, and it makes me sick. But I can only hope that when I stand before the Lord at the Judgment Seat of Christ there will be a good supply of gold, silver and precious jewels left at my feet after He torches all that fleshly religious garbage I produced. Love Father and each other to the point of becoming one just like Jesus and the Father are…and we’re there Church. All else is DUNG!!!
Al Smith on Mon, December 13, 2004
My church is in the box - way in the box. As a matter of fact we are probably a box inside a box wrapped in 17 layers of heavy duty paper and then covered with Duct Tape!
Todd Rhoades on Tue, December 14, 2004
Hi… Todd here.
Thanks for all your input. I love a good discussion.
However, I’m still amazed at the amount of negative comments to a topic that was supposed to help broaden our horizons and make us think a little. I can take negative comments when they’re constructive (really, I can)… but just about every post to this blog (overall, not just this thread) ends up with someone saying all discussion is meaningless because:
1. the Bible is the only book we need
2. Jesus didn’t talk about this directly
3. it’s sin… let’s call it what it is
4. I’m right and your wrong.
Quickly, let me make these observations (not only about this post, but any post on this blog) (and I can do that since I’m the operator and grand poopah of the blog here) http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
1. The Bible is the Word of God; and is THE MOST IMPORTANT BOOK. That’s the starting point in my mind. To say that reading or suggesting or using any other book is not worth our time is just silly in my opinion. Yet just about every topical post (including this one we’re discussing); someone has to say something like “why are we discussing this… all our answers are in the Bible”. My answer to this: probably because the discussion started as a discussion on a particular book or thought. To be honest, my first thought is if the Bible is the only thing you ever need to read, why are you here reading this? http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
2. Jesus didn’t mention this in the Bible. You know… why all this talk about boxes? Show me a scripture that talks about boxes. OK… you got me. There aren’t any. But you’ve missed the point. Actually read the first post and find out the meaning of what we’re calling boxes. They do have relevance to what we’re doing in our churches (even if you prefer to think about it in other ways than ‘boxes’.)
3. It’s sin. OK… we haven’t heard this on this post yet (thankfully); but particularly on the posts about conflict there are always comments about everything being as easy as calling sin ‘sin’. Any of us that have been in ministry for very long know that conflict and ministry are much more difficult than that. Sin is ‘sin’. (that much is true). Dealing with the consequences of sin in the body is yet another matter. And I think in black and white. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
4. I’m right and you’re wrong. Why does this bother me when someone says they’re right and I’m wrong? Obviously, because I’M right and THEY’RE wrong. But seriously… why are we as pastors and church leaders so quick to judge others who don’t do things exactly as we do? What one church does to reach the lost may not work in your church. But that doesn’t mean that they are wrong.
All this from ‘boxes’. Go figure.
Maybe it’s just early. Your thoughts?
(and you can feel free to quote scripture if you wish) http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Todd
David on Tue, December 14, 2004
Amen, Todd! Oh my gosh! Sometimes the amount of squabbling responses is just rediculous. One thought: If the Bible is the only thing we should be reading for guidance on initiating growth within the church (according to some), why is it that 99% of the churches in America are dying or plateaued? If the church isn’t growing, did we get that from the Bible? Does the New Testament contain an “all-inclusive list” of the problems churches can face?
John Morris on Tue, December 14, 2004
I have absolutely nothing against this book, or any we’ve discussed on these boards. If someone else can help me be more effective for the Gospel, or break me out of outdated ways of viewing church, I love and embrace it.
I think we all have to remember one thing: It’s not about us, our knowledge, or our practical bent as far as ministry goes. If what we’re doing is not effective in winning souls, making disciples, exalting the Lord, and sending out/multiplying ministry, then what we’re doing is wrong.
Personally, I LOVE the fact that “Beyond the box” thinking involves a missionary mindset! As a matter of fact, when I look at the characteristics of “Beyond the box” ministry on the whole, I get excited. There are certain characteristics from all three groups that I think are valid. As always, I say, do whatever is effective. The heart and the fruit are what matters. Right motivation + right procedure + fervent prayer = good fruit.
However this book can help me with procedure and a reminder of Christ’s heart for the lost, I’m okay with it!
Al on Tue, December 14, 2004
It’s been said earlier:
“Let’s stop producing a bunch of programs at church that keep people busy, active and distracted and demand that pastors, elders and those seasoned in their faith disciple them.”
How big is your midweek discipleship/prayer service? If it is like most churches it is a small (very small) percentage of the actual congregation. One of the reasons churches have all those “programs” is to get people to church - so they can be discipled!
Let’s be honest - the reason we are doing most of the “new stuff” in the church today is to get people there. Music - Entertainment - Special Speakers - all designed to get people in!
I am not saying that is wrong. You can’t minister to people if they are not there. Billy Sunday climbed a flag pole to get people to gather – but then again he gave the straight message to those that did gather. The problem today with attracting people by using their “fleshly nature” is that one will have to continue to feed that “nature” to keep them – or they will just go on down the street to the next and better show.
Jesus even recognized this phenomena when he look at the crowds and said; “you are following me only for the bread and fish!” “If you really want to follow me, pick up your cross, forsake your life for the life I will give you and follow me.” This might not seem like a real good strategy to “build” a church, I know, but that is the bottom line Christ is calling us to – isn’t it?
David Curtis on Tue, December 14, 2004
Would a person who is thinking beyond the box and living radically for Jesus Christ take time away from that mission to read and comment on this blog? (No offense Todd)
I have to confess, I want to be someone who is beyond the box and be a pastor in a church that is beyond the box. However currently I am not beyond the box. Having grown up in the church I fear that I am hopelessly stuck in the box. I know that my current church is stuck in the box, but as the youth pastor I don’t know how to help the whole church move beyond the box. My prayer is that God would change me in such a way that I am living beyond the box and that those around me would be influenced to do the same.
Jim Eaton on Tue, December 14, 2004
Todd,
You are so right Bro! I am personally guilty of what you spoke of in the way I responded with my last comment. Please forgive me!? I opted for devaluing the discussion in order to make the point that it is more about our hearts and our motivations than it is about how we do Church. That was insensitive on my part and did not contribute to the intent of your blog here. I really believe that what I wanted to say was that God’s grace and mercy for us is so complete and so constant that we need to relax and just accept that no matter how hard we try to get it right, the Church as an organization will never be a true representative of His Kingdom. But we as His people can be! And that’s okay! I’m really sorry for not getting your heart on this the first time.
phill on Tue, December 14, 2004
To tell the truth very few would be in the beyond category. Or tract three as Bill would call them.
But something we see happening is churches operating in all three. They operate in some way in all the categories that you listed.
Dave on Tue, December 14, 2004
I believe that many churches who are wrestling with ways to carry out the great commission, are finding out that their programs are helpful and important to build up and equip the saints, but many of them have become an end in themselves. Realizing this, we are beginning to look for ways to move people out of the chairs and into kingdom building labor/ministry. This, then, is the beginning of a more missional approach to ministry. I believe we are slowly coming to a realization that “the church” as we knew it, is mostly irrelevant to those who are not part of it. A fast growing majority of the people in our communities do not even think about church on Saturday night or Sunday morning, let alone attend. There’s only one way to reach them - go to them and meet them where they’re at. By the book’s description, this is “beyond the box” thinking and requires a huge paradigm shift for all of us. This is more difficult for me and my fellow boomers! But shift we must….
PJ on Wed, December 15, 2004
Al: why on earth would you want to be anyone other than the person God has created you to be? Allowing the Spirit to guide you is exactly the mode that transposes you into the servant He has created you to be. Why try copying anyone else other than Jesus Chist?
phill on Wed, December 15, 2004
I would recommend this book to anyone…
Our churches have become a place of Atrophy…and one reason is because we would rather survive then thrive.
If you are serious about facing the reality of what we have created in today’s church…and desiring to have a church that fights for the heart of our king…then this is a great book to start that journey.
PTP on Thu, December 16, 2004
The issure really is, “being Biblical.” The problem is most churches would rather be traditionally 19th century churchy.
I find myself in a quandry; as a youth pastor i am always trying to be culturally relevant, as most youth pastors. I find myself think closer to “beyond the box”, functioning “outside the box”, but my church is most deffinately “in the box” big time.
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