Jay Bakker Writes Letter to Joel Osteen: We Should be Concerned About Those Who Feel ‘Le
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, April 29, 2008
- Viewed 133
- (46) comments so far
Here’s a copy of the letter:
Rev. Joel Osteen
Lakewood Church
3700 Southwest Freeway
Houston, TX 77027
Subject: The American Family Outing
Dear Rev. Osteen and the congregation of Lakewood Church,
My name is Jay Bakker. I am pastor of Revolution Church in Brooklyn, New York. You may know me as the son of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker.
As you might have heard, I lost my mother this year after a long battle with cancer. This has led me to reflect on the importance of family, as well as the lessons my mother taught me regarding the unconditional love of God. It is in her memory that I write you this letter today.
As a child growing up, I saw a side of the church that to me did not always reflect God’s grace. This experience has led me to be concerned for our brothers and sisters in Christ who sometimes may feel rejected and left out of the church.
It is for these reasons that I have decided to be a part of a plan to bring dozens of lesbian, gay, ########, and transgender families from around the country, as well as heterosexual families that support them, to visit your congregation on Mother’s Day Weekend (Saturday May 10 and Sunday May 11th, 2008) to create meaningful dialogue about homosexuality and Christianity.
This visit is part of the American Family Outing, a collaborative project between Soulforce, the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, the National Black Justice Coalition, and COLAGE. It is my understanding that the Executive Director of Soulforce, Jeff Lutes, sent you an initial letter, dated December 3, 2007. I wanted to follow-up to let you know of my involvement in this important effort to bring true hope and prosperity to all God’s children.
So many look to you for leadership, and therefore you and your congregation have an exceptional opportunity to advance respectful and Christ-centered conversation on a topic that too often divides our families and our nation. As Jeff expressed in his letter, we hope that you will collaborate with us in structuring our time together at your church. I invite you to match the families I bring, with a roughly equal number of families from your congregation, and ask that we arrange to share a meal together on Saturday, May 10th or Sunday, May 11th, followed by structured and educational conversation. We are also planning to attend your worship service on Sunday, May 11th.
Together, we can make this an experience that will bless the lives of so many. Please contact me at (private number) or Jeff Lutes at (private number) so that we can work together on planning the details.
In John 13:35, Jesus said that your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples. I invite you to reflect Christ’s unconditional love and participate with us in this event.
In Grace and Hope,
Jay Bakker
Pastor
Revolution NYC
cc: Victoria Osteen, Paul Osteen, M.D., Dodie Osteen, Kevin Comes, Lisa Comes, Duncan Dodds, Marcos Witt.
FOR YOUR INPUT: What do you think of this letter? What good could come out of these meetings? And if there IS any good, would it be the good/agenda that Soulforce is desiring?
Soulforce released an open letter over the weekend from Pastor Jay Bakker of Revolution NYC church to Rev. Joel Osteen and Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. Originally mailed in January 2008, the letter invites Osteen and families from the Lakewood congregation to share a meal with lesbian, gay, ########, transgender (LGBT) and straight-ally families over Mother's Day weekend. According to Jay Bakker, "As a child growing up, I saw a side of the church that to me did not always reflect God's grace. This experience has led me to be concerned for our brothers and sisters in Christ who sometimes may feel rejected and left out of the church."
Comments
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Paul Dixon aka The Krow on Tue, April 29, 2008
Thanks for sharing this great article. I admire Jay Bakker and his boldness to share his concern with Joel about the gay/lesbian community and his desire to presence the gospel and speak hope into the lives of those who take up residence in it.
All my heart says “Way to go Jay!!!”
Mike Utech on Tue, April 29, 2008
This is an issue that I have been contemplating for over a year now. The unconditional love and grace that Jay has for people is freeing. I think we have done disservice to the Kingdom by choosing to reject some lifestyles while ignoring others. Why does it seem to be perfectly ok for christians to be obese and engage in church sanctioned over eating (potluck dinner anyone)? Why does heterosexual cohabitation and fornication get ‘a talkin to’ or worse a blind eye? But then we condemn to hell a person who is struggling with non heterosexual feelings. We say being gay is a choice, but we have compassion for the struggles of an alcoholic or drug addict - I am not saying those are equal ground but what I am saying is that there is practically no compassion for a person who is homosexual, ########, trans-gendered - these are all people who struggle with their own identity and are hurting because of the rejection they feel from society, family, and worst of all the church.
I still don’t know what the right answer is as far as how the church or individual christians should respond but I am confident that the response that we have had has been wrong. It’s hasn’t been one of grace and love - and I believe that is how Christ Jesus responds to all of us - with grace and love.
Mike Utech on Tue, April 29, 2008
why does this site mask words like
b i s e x u a l
Daniel on Tue, April 29, 2008
I remember when Soulforce came to my alma mater. There was some initial tension to be sure, but both parties made the best of it, and the dialogue that resulted, I am told, was excellent.
I pray the same can happen here. The mantra ‘love the sinner hate the sin’ is too often divorced from actual practice. Here the Lakewood folk have a chance to put some skin on it. It’ll be interesting to hear what comes of this.
Peace,
-Daniel-
CS on Tue, April 29, 2008
I would say that Jay Bakker took a very clever strategic front in going to Osteen and his church about this. Why? Because Osteen just about never preaches on controversial topics or anything smacking of sin, wrath, or judgment. It forces Osteen’s hand to welcome them into his church or to take a stand. Since Osteen about never rejects anyone or anything, for fear of damaging his image, they gain the spotlight of a church watched by hundreds of thousands of people.
Could you imagine if Bakker went to a sound, Bible-believing place like John MacArthur’s church with the same goal of, “to create meaningful dialogue about homosexuality and Christianity”? I imagine that the dialogue would focus around Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and a few other key pieces of Scripture. It would be a direct call for repentance, instead of an “open forum.”
—
CS
DanielR on Tue, April 29, 2008
Does anyone else think this has more of a “We’re coming whether you like it or not, how are you going to respond?” ring to it, rather than a “We’d like to come and have a dialogue, are we welcome?” tone?
I haven’t seen the wording of the previous letter mentioned, but the tone of this seems to be one of announcing a planned assault rather than one seeking an invitation.
Not that I’m not in favor of dialogue, but I think it needs to welcome, invited, and orchestrated by both sides. In this case it sounds like it’s being orchestrated by ne side and forced upon the other side.
Am I reading this wrong?
Peter on Tue, April 29, 2008
Dan,
You’re not reading it wrong. They’re coming whether you like it or not. Watcha gonna do about it? I read the initial post here and visited the site trying to get more information. Got the typical “you hate homosexuals” responses from most people and then was “quoted” in a letter further on. All to the point of showing just how much I hate the GLBT community members. So much for the meaningful dialogue that they claimed they wanted. I didn’t attack any of them, but was asking what their reaction is to people who say their beliefs are wrong and back those arguments up with scripture. Basic response was “that’s all we ever hear - why doesn’t anyone listen to us?” Saying that we’d heard their arguments and rejected the merits of them, even though we still cared for them as people didn’t seem to work.
Like I said, I gave up on the dialogue. Nobody wanted to hear what I had to say and it was pretty frustrating that there really wasn’t a whole lot of attention to truth in the arguments. We won’t see eye to eye on this issue and a good portion of people in the GLBT lifestyle so closely associate that with their identity that it’s really hard to have a conversation about it without them feeling attacked.
Derek on Tue, April 29, 2008
I think it is good for evangelical Christians and gay-affirming Christians to sit down and dialog. The problem with the gay issue, like other social issues, is that it is complex and has many different but inter-related issues. The first issue that needs to be discussed between evangelicals and gay-affirming Christians is a theological one. What do we believe the Bible teaches us concerning homosexuality?
Before we embrace homosexuality as a loving Christian relationship OR before we condemn homosexuals and tell them to repent, we need to sit down and discuss what we see in the Scripture about homosexuality. This discussion will inform all other topics such as gay marriage, civil unions, gay health rights, gay stigma in society, and how homosexuals are treated by evangelicals.
With that said, I don’t think Joel Osteen is the right pastor to have this discussion. I don’t see Joel sitting down for a theological discussion on homosexuality, do you??? I would chose maybe Jack Hayford or Tommy Barrnett.
With that said, I think Jay’s heart is in the right place, but I can’t say I agree with his his gay-affirming position. I do like the sleeves though. I wish I could pull that off!
Derek
Randy Ehle on Tue, April 29, 2008
I recently completed a study on the topic of oppression in the latter prophets and gospels. Three primary themes seemed to recur: (1) God judges through oppression (e.g., the Babylonian and Assyrian captivities); (2) God judges oppressors; and (3) God will bring release from oppression.
One thing that stood out was how often God accused the Israelites themselves of oppressing aliens, widows, orphans, the sick, the poor, etc. Oppression of Israel was often God’s judgment for oppression by Israel.
One of the conclusions I drew from this study was that the church today - certainly the evangelical church - needs to take to heart God’s condemnation and judgment of the oppression of which Israel was accused. The evangelical church (of which I am a part) stands guilty before God of oppressing outcasts; today, the list of outcasts includes homosexuals, people who have had or performed an abortion, Arabs broadly and Muslims specifically, people with tattoos and/or body piercings; anyone associated favorably with any of the above; and many more, I’m sure. We in the evangelical church need to lay down our doctrinal swords - or better, beat them into plowshares - and figure out how to serve these whom we have for so long cast out. Let us not forget that the same Spirit who inspired Romans 1 (the wrath of God against godlessness and wickedness) also inspired Romans 2 (we have no excuse…and ”God’s kindness leads you toward repentance”.
I’m not sure we need more dialog about what the Bible says about homosexuality; we will always have disagreement on that. But perhaps we would make more of an eternal difference in the lives of some homosexuals if we would show more of God’s kindness…and leave the wrath to God.
Richard on Tue, April 29, 2008
Far be it for me to defend Osteen, but it seems like a stunt of arrogance to bring this to their door. If you feel that strongly about the issue, then build your ministry around it, plant other churches with like values, and do other things to promote your cause. Seems like a smug publicity grab.
Mike Utech on Tue, April 29, 2008
Richard,
I guess you are not aware of it but Jay Baker has and is doing all of those things.
Leonard Lee on Tue, April 29, 2008
I don’t know if I agree with you Randy, I think we need much more discussion but not much more discussion in the same vein we have had. If homosexuality is sinful, then we need to discuss how to love people caught in that lifestyle of sinfulness.
Their needs to be a human face on sin just as Jesus also put a human face on God. When we remove the human face from the sinner we can only be judgmental and not redemptive. When we lose the human face on God, we miss the redeemer, who became sin on my behalf.
Peter Hamm on Tue, April 29, 2008
[Does anyone else think this has more of a “We’re coming whether you like it or not, how are you going to respond?” ring to it, rather than a “We’d like to come and have a dialogue, are we welcome?” tone?]
Not only that, but as some have found out, many in this community do not want dialogue, they merely want those who are more “conservative” in their beliefs to change them. It’s that simple. That’s not dialogue, and in many cases, that is simply not going to happen.
Look, I’ve been accused of being a bleeding-heart liberal, but I have to defend the authority and inspiration of Scripture. I can’t change my mind about what it says. And yes, I have heard all the arguments about how Scripture may not say what we think it says. Some of them are rather interesting and almost compelling, but I’m not convinced yet…
And yes, I’m fully aware that it says to love my neighbor is WAY more important than tsk-tsk-ing him in his sin, and I’m all over that.
Brad on Tue, April 29, 2008
This is getting to be so gay…sorry, couldn’t resist.
helen on Tue, April 29, 2008
what is jay doing to help these people, does he tell them it is a sin, or does he go along with the life style hoping they will change, or what is his purpose in all of this, some say he is doing a great job, exactially what is his job,
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