Multi-Site Churches: Answering the Critics
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, June 23, 2005
- Viewed 83
- (27) comments so far
Groeschel said the multi-campus approach is today?s big news in the religion world. He said he is aware that the concept is not without its detractors, people who believe senior pastors should be planting more churches with new leaders.
?They ask, ?Why don?t we just build up other leaders and send them out?? They think that the pastor has a big ego and has to be in front of everyone, but I?ve found it?s quite the opposite,? he said.
?These pastors would really rather not draw attention to themselves, but they realize that it?s an effective way of reaching people.?
The Arizona campuses, like the campuses in Oklahoma, will have their own campus pastor, Groeschel said. He said the campus pastors do everything a senior pastor does, just not every week.
?They are very effective leaders.?
Larry Osborne, the Pastor at North Coast Church in Vista, CA (well-known for their use of the video venue format) says the following on this subject:
To teach effectively and powerfully a pastor must know and connect with people. But knowing the pulse of people doesn?t mean knowing the pulse of everyone. We?ve long ago proved that effective and life-changing teaching can be done from a distance. Radio ministries, books and tapes all powerfully carry out the work of the Spirit without the communicator being in direct relationship to the listeners. A message on a video screen is no different.
As far as shepherding a flock, no one who pastors a large church shepherds the flock in a hands-on way. It simply can?t be done. And for those who try, the advice of Jethro to Moses is well taken. Large churches that are healthy long ago learned to depend on small group ministries and a team of pastors and shepherds empowered and equipped to lead an assigned portion of the flock.
An off-site Video Venue (whether across town or across the nation) will always need an on-site pastor to shepherd and lead the flock. An off-site Video Venue is really no different than a church plant, except that the primary leader needs only to wake up thinking about shepherding and leading rather than shepherding, leading and teaching a weekly message.
Finally, Geoff Surratt, the Pastor of Campus Development at Seacoast Church (another well-known user of the multi-site format) says this at his blog. I think he sums it up well:
If we are to truly go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, we can no longer hold onto the comfortable thought of being a church that meets in one location under one roof. We have to cross boundaries into other neighborhoods and cultures. We have to open our doors to other churches that may be more effective at reaching the lost and making disciples than we are. We have to put aside our preconceptions of what a church is, what a pastor is, how the Good News should be delivered. And when we do it will said of us that we have turned the world upside down.
I realize these are a bunch of random thoughts on multi-site, but I hope they will prove helpful to you. What do you think?
This is a follow-up post to yesterday’s story about LifeChurch.tv’s move to form two new satellite campuses in Arizona (LifeChurch.tv is based in Norman, OK). Today, I said we would follow up with some words that Pastor Craig has to say to those who are against the multi-site church concept. (We’ve already heard from some of these people in the comments section of yesterday’s post).
Comments
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mark waltz on Fri, June 24, 2005
I’ll try to be careful here, but a quick glance at Jesus might be okay in all this (not suggesting that no one has; let’s just say it here). I think it would be wrong of us to point to Jesus and mandate any particular method of ministry based on mimicking what we see Jesus, but there may be room to accept that:
- Jesus drew some decent crowds in his day. When he died the church went underground for a little while. But it didn’t stay there - she’s thriving pretty decently still.
- Jesus seemed to be pretty open to decentralizing the church. He rallied and taught and mentored those he sent out - but they did go out with his message. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
- Jesus warned his early disciples about judging others who did ministry differently and concluded - if they’re not against me, they’re for me.
Just some thoughts.
Todd Rhoades on Fri, June 24, 2005
Thanks, Marcus… and thanks Mark.
Mark, I wish that some of the detractors here could see the passion and excitement with which many people here serve. For instance, I’ve had quite a bit of exposure with Granger (Mark’s church, which is NOT multi-site, BTW) and I can tell you that they are all about bringing people to Jesus. As a matter of fact, everything they do is to that end. And they do it, not with an egotistical, arrogent, number-crunching state of mind; but out of a love for people who are dying in their community without Jesus.
Respectfully, I do think that some people who are so against new ideas would do best to search out some good examples and research them rather than instantly thinking the worst about them.
And, Mark, I too wish that everyone could separate the methodology and the message, but we’ve had that discussion here before, and It’s not possible for some. If the message changes, there’s a problem… but methodologies should always be in a state of flux. (My opinion).
Todd
Geoff Surratt on Fri, June 24, 2005
Just noticed that in the article that lit this fire I’ve been promoted to “the pastor” at Seacoast. While I do occasionally stuggle with an “egotistical, arrogent, number-crunching state of mind”, I’m afraid the other Seacoast pastors, not to mention the Sr. Pastor, might want me to point out I’m just the Pastor of Campus Development. But thanks for the significant, albeit brief, promotion http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/grin.gif
[Todd’s note… sorry about the Geoff… guess if I’m going to mis-state your position, I might as well go all out! I’ve fixed my error in the post.
Actually, you might be a bigger target here as “Pastor of Campus Development” than the “Senior Pastor” would be. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif ]]
Eric Jaffe on Fri, June 24, 2005
Comment regarding the lost in other countries? I think it is wrong to assume that life church is not active in world missions. Many churches including Seacoast and other members of ARC are very active in world missions. Billy Hornsby has a heart for missions domestically and internationally unlike few that I have ever met.
I don’t see it as an either or. God called us to witness in Jerusalem, Judia, etc. to the outer parts of the earth. For me, that starts in my own back yard. The local church campus, as God has given us influence we have started to become a city wide church, others like Seacoast have regional influence, Fellowship National. Most all of them also have a global missions mindset.
God is up to something with multi-site. We are learning more about it every day. It is exciting to see God use this tool and allow others who might not be as highly gifted communicators spend the 20+ hours a week they might have spent preparing an average message loving and caring for people, or leading God’s Sheep!
To use an analogy I once heard geoff say. The technology Paul had in his day was letters, so he used them to spread the Gospel. Over the years people have used radio, tv, and a variety of other means to spread the good news. Why not use the internet, tape, or DVD to spread the word! Especially when people are getting saved!
Sarge on Fri, June 24, 2005
Can’t we all just get along?
Marcus Monroe on Fri, June 24, 2005
unfortuneatly Sarge, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Some will lack to see the larger picture, or be quick to judge others. I honestly don’t know what the driving force behind their ministry against unconventional yet still biblically sound and moral means of reaching the lost is all about. I don’t know if it’s a site of envy, or the work of the devil strongly working. I believe if they could actually experience the things first hand, they would be revolutionized in their thinking. I never thought the capactiy of ministry at which some churches function could be possible until an annual trip to Arlington for Six Flags had caught my eye on the large letters reading FELLOWSHIPCHURCH.COM It was all I thought about on the whole trip. I couldn’t relax until I got back home and opened up my browser to fellowshipchurch.com. At first, I was quick to judge the ministry efforts of FC as just absolutley “not church”. But when I experience the ministry myself, I could see that the ministry of FC was one that was saving souls and changed the way I looked at life as a christian, and the way I do my own ministry.
Alot of people who don’t know or just don’t understand will say that this is just a fad. But I believe that after all the traditional churches have died out, and that’s currently at a rate of 11 a week, that the mega-church will become the norm.
People still question how such a large church can still meet and reach the needs of each and every individual person. But their own capabilities have limited their thinking. It’s not just one person. It’s several hundred volunteer laymen working and caring.
I really don’t know what to say to nay-sayers. I guess all our questions and thoughts will be answered when we’re in heaven.
God Bless, i’m off to bed.
John Ventry on Sun, June 26, 2005
What is church? Is church a place with a choir loft, hymnals, and a 3 point sermon? Is church a community where the common bond is Christ’s love and grace? The ground truly is level at the foot of the cross. What does it matter as long as God is working. If people’s lives are being changed, then glory to God. The common bond of Christ’s love crosses cities, counties and states. It is exciting to see. Same grace, same God, same hope.
justk on Mon, June 27, 2005
Marcus wrote about LifeChurch.tv:
“They are making a difference. They recently rented out a venue downtown and played music. They stood out on the same corner and handed out flyers for the event. I worked the night of the event, so I wasn’t able to go. But let me ask you guys, what are your churches doing in IT’S communities.”
Just to clarify, Marcus, that downtown event is called Oasis, and it is an ongoing weekly ministry held in a nightclub in Bricktown on sunday nights. While it is supported by LifeChurch with the use of some resources, there is no official connection between LifeChurch and Oasis. Before anyone takes this as deflating Marcus’s point however, let me point out that Oasis was started by a single home group from the body of LifeChurch.tv. 25 or so people take time to not only attend and serve in their local church (lifechurch.tv), but also spend most of their remaining sundays putting together an outreach event to reach the lost who would never set foot in any church, mega or otherwise. So if you feel that the multi-campus mega church model is destroying community, take a look at this ministry. I don’t think that anyone would say that Life is a perfect model for a church. But if God is using its ministry to inspire people to start ministries of their own, I’m willing to give them the benifit of the doubt.
Tony Myles on Mon, June 27, 2005
My experience?
The video venue I participated in ended up being nothing more than a good way to off-load people in a facility (rather than build a bigger sanctuary). While many things were done to try to build an identity for this congregation, they still remained spectators. Hopefully that will change as the future moves on.
I like Willow Creek’s approach - don’t start a satelite unless you have a campus pastor, worship pastor, youth pastor, and children’s pastor. That’s one way to start the thing off with a good foundation.
I’m still working on digesting this whole concept… right now I like the idea of church planting a bit more.
rick on Mon, June 27, 2005
In case it matters, Lifechurch IS involved in a bunch of overseas ministry—they’re goal is to “tithe” their people. In other words, a tenth of the people who attend go to serve the 3rd world once a year. Give them some slack in this area.
Second, I interviewed for a pastoral position with Lifechurch…found that I was pretty uneasy about the whole “single-voice” deal from the stage—and their OBSESSION with every last syllable of your message being scrutinized. If excellence and authenticty were pitted against one another, excellence won—probably because they’re arminian in their theology and believe people’s response to the gospel hangs on their every word.
They were also less than interested in candidates that were slobbering over their technology and methods. The intermediary in the interview warned me in advance that they would come off as “arrogant”. Can that be good? When does coming off as arrogant become arrogant? Regardless, I thought Craig and the gang are great people who love Jesus—seriously! My short time with them DID NOT sour me on them as people. Craig has IMMENSE character, from my observations.
One major knock though…lifechurch does a count of “hands” every week regarding who accepts Jesus—they freely admitted that there was zero follow-up as to how many were actually making a commitment for the first time, getting plugged in, etc. Things may have changed since then, but I’m not aware.
Last, I still think its lazy leadership to not develop and send other leaders to be what pastors are supposed to be (more than just shepherds)—ministers of the Word and prayer. Pastors/Elders teach…it’s that simple. It’s the only “skill” listed in 1 Timothy 3—the rest deal with character issues.
thoughts from my inside peek of LC.tv
justJ on Tue, June 28, 2005
Rick, speaking as a member of LifeChurch for 5 years and someone who knows several members of the staff personally, I’d like to comment on some of your thoughts…
[In case it matters, Lifechurch IS involved in a bunch of overseas ministry—they’re goal is to “tithe” their people. In other words, a tenth of the people who attend go to serve the 3rd world once a year. Give them some slack in this area.]
They have also in the last year increased the mission portion of the budget to help subsidize mission trips up to half, so that cost is less of a barrier for those considering a mission trip. Life has really stepped up their missions program recently.
[Second, I interviewed for a pastoral position with Lifechurch…found that I was pretty uneasy about the whole “single-voice” deal from the stage—and their OBSESSION with every last syllable of your message being scrutinized. If excellence and authenticty were pitted against one another, excellence won—probably because they’re arminian in their theology and believe people’s response to the gospel hangs on their every word.]
eh, I wouldn’t go quite that far (from my persective), but they do put a great deal of effort into crafting their “experience.” I think Craig’s response to your statement would probably be that excellence and authenticity are not mutually exclusive. I see your point, though.
[One major knock though…lifechurch does a count of “hands” every week regarding who accepts Jesus—they freely admitted that there was zero follow-up as to how many were actually making a commitment for the first time, getting plugged in, etc. Things may have changed since then, but I’m not aware.]
I know that those people are encouraged moments after their decision to fill out a communication card and drop it in the bucket when the offering is taken. On that card they can check a box indicating a first-time commitment or a re-commitment, as well as give any personal information they see fit for follow up. Those cards are then divided among staff members, prayed over, and the individual staff members then usually contact the new believers during the week to follow up. There are also free “new-believer” packets including a free bible and CD of that week’s message, and periodically they offer new-believers classes. There are also home groups geared specifically toward new believers as well. All of this is dependent on the person who raised their hand being willing to be followed up with.
[Last, I still think its lazy leadership to not develop and send other leaders to be what pastors are supposed to be (more than just shepherds)—ministers of the Word and prayer. Pastors/Elders teach…it’s that simple. It’s the only “skill” listed in 1 Timothy 3—the rest deal with character issues.]
Craig recently mentioned in a message that he was going to be giving more time for the Campus Pastors to teach to the entire congregation, in an effort to develop the future leaders of the church. As recently as last weekend one of our AZ Campus Pastors spoke and did a great job. Campus Pastors usually preach messages to their individual flocks around four times a year. I don’t know how much input they get on their messages, but I’m sure that Craig gives his fair share of feedback. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
J
jb skaggs on Fri, July 15, 2005
With the serious decline of small independent churches due to such things as money and people which are rolling into huge mega churches. I see the video venue as another blow to the small independent church.
For whatever reason the mega churches are gobbling up resources and people and destroying the local assemblies. Do they mean to? Probably not. But if the mega churches want to continue the gospel freely and without personal gain or vanity let them send their descretionary income and workers to the small struggling existing churches!
Walmart was a terrible idea for the retail survival of small towns and the mega church is having the same effect on the spiritual health of small towns and churches.
The video venue can and never will be a placement for the local pastor- and to say that having a jr. local pastor (campus pastor, small groups pastor, whatever) who is there to promote and support a televison broadcast rather than developing a self sufficient church borders on the sacriligious. This idea even twenty years ago would have been shot down in flames- the idea of a TV replacing the local pastor’s sermon IN THE LOCAL CHURCH?
There should be a difference between the church and the world- and one of the greatest differences use to be our close fellowship and community. And Now ?
JB Skaggs
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