OK… Senior Pastors… How Much Do You Make?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, August 28, 2008
- Viewed 1660
- (76) comments so far
Here’s the rest of the article from the Christian Post...
Here’s a link to purchase the study and compensation results...
If you're a Senior Pastor at a church in the United States, you're probably making about $80,000 per year. That is the finding of the 2009 Compensation Handbook for Church Staff survey of nearly 5,000 churches and 11,000 employees.
Here's the breakdown: If your church averages 100-300 people, the average pay is around $73k (including benefits). If your church has a weekly worship attendance of between 300-500, that number jumps to $88k. And the total compensation average for the senior pastor of a church $103k if attendance is 500+.
I'm wondering... if you're reading this, how are you matching up? Are you within these findings? I'd like to hear...
Comments
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Pezz on Tue, September 02, 2008
John MacArthur asked his board, “Why do you pay me so much?” They said, “Because we want to see what you do with it!” The truth is, if he is truly a man of God, he can’t be overpaid, he’ll give the excess away.
I assure you, that though I may be paid well as a senior pastor, I give most of it away. We just did a financial analysis of our churches giving. I was surprised to find that I had slipped into 3rd place this year, I’m usually #1 or #2 in giving. So, rant and rave about how much preachers make if you like, but if you don’t know what they do with it, you don’t know the whole story. They just might be paying someones electric bill or buying oil for their furnace this year. I could have a Benz like the Drs. or lawyers or business owners in our church because of the salary I make, but I drive a rusty vehicle with 142,000 miles. Why? Someone has needs greater than mine. Yes, I have a second car, I paid $14000 for it on Ebay. You want to gripe about people getting paid too much, start with the question, how much of their salary do they give away?
David on Tue, September 02, 2008
Paul did not erect churches….let alone the multi-million dollar “compounds” we see all over the land. Paul didn’t institute “family programs.” Paul didn’t die a wealthy man with followers saying, “a worker is worthy of his pay.”
As a matter of fact, there is evidence that the church continued attending the temple as Jesus did.
I always love the pastors (most of whom have a vested interest in this concept) who quote “do not forsake the assembling of yourselves” to those who don’t attend, but don’t seem to mind or know when asked about how many serious, active, healthy RELATIONSHIPS their parish have. I would venture to say that in most churches, 20 percent of the people or less have a serious vested interest in each other’s lives and see each other on days other than Sunday. This makes the church look like a gathering place for money.
Frustrated, I see your frustration, empathize and agree with most of what you say. Profanity only lessens your credibility and shows how closely you follow the Spirit and Word. I imagine one’s youthfulness should give him/her a pass in this area, but a person commands more respect when he gives it.
I personally have seen at least two pastors who just couldn’t find time to spend time with a person/people in desparately needed Godly counsel. One was seriously considering suicide. They were both, and I quote, “so busy lately with my kids and the doctorate I’m working on.” Yes, both of them. I see that too much.
Yes, the early church was too young to have mega churches, but it seemed the more organized the church got, the more it moved towards paid staff etc, the more trouble and corruption entered.
Peter Hamm on Wed, September 03, 2008
Pezz,
I am hoping that doesn’t mean that you know the amounts your people give. I wouldn’t want that info.
Your point about generosity is well taken, though. However, many of these people who responded are not compensated enough to be as generous as they would like, I’ll bet.
I, too, do not think I’ve ever known a non-generous pastor. I’m sure they exist. I just don’t know them.
Leonard on Wed, September 03, 2008
Peter, I think a pastor should know what his people give. I realize that it is a huge responsibility to have that information but it is necessary.
One of the most powerful grips Satan has on us as people is materialism. Debt, selfish spending, over spending, under giving are words that mark us as Christ followers. If I am responsible to care for spiritually for those in my church, I need to be able to help in this area as well.
I should know if someone is leaving their spouse, hurting their children, lying, struggling to grow, caught in unforgiveness… Why should I not know if someone is sinning by not being a faithful giver too.
Giving is not an option, generosity is not an option for us as believers. Regardless of your opinion about tithing, giving is not optional. In my experience, almost every single time someone makes a commitment to let God be owner and they become manager in this arena of life, huge spiritual growth follows.
One task a shepherd has is to guard their flock… the bible warns us to watch out for all kinds of greed. I think it is necessary to know.
Peter Hamm on Wed, September 03, 2008
I understand where you’re coming from, Leonard. I’ll just agree to disagree. I’ve been in churches where Pastors seemed to favor big givers over others, and I think a great way to avoid that is just not to know.
If I were SP I wouldn’t want to know, and as an “associate” pastor, thank God I don’t know.
Leonard on Wed, September 03, 2008
Peter, you are not free to disagree with me… Oh wait never mind you can… (smiley face here) I know the temptation to favor, but I also know that, and forgive me if this seems a bit off, until someone sits in the SP chair, much of what the SP does is misunderstood. I have been a Youth pastor, missionary, leadership team member at a church and many other roles in the body of Christ. But the role of SP is by far the most easily mis-understood and most easily criticized and most easily maligned role in the church.
I have been accused of things in the past about my heart that are things that never crossed my heart. Far too many people know how to do my job better than I do, even though they have never done it. I know you are NOT saying this, but I think if a SP cannot handle the information he should not have it. It becomes impossible once your church becomes a certain size anyway. I cannot possibly handle all that information. I do however have access to check.
Here is how I use it. If someone comes to me and complains… I check their giving record. If they do not give, I do not listen. Not because giving buys you the right to complain but because investment give you ownership and ownership gives you voice. I also believe it is impossible to be mature in Christ and not be a generous giver. If someone is a generous giver, most likely they have a level of maturity to that brings wisdom.
I check my leaders to see if they are giving. My pastors, board members, key ministry leaders should all be examples. I check for accountability and when thy do not give, I simply remind them of the responsibility to give and to model giving to those they lead.
This would be a fascinating discussion if we could keep away from the “I had a a pastor” bashing and the “bible doesn’t teach tithing” discussions.
Peter Hamm on Wed, September 03, 2008
Leonard,
Again, I TOTALLY understand where you’re coming from. I tend to ignore complaints that are either anonymous, given by someone who has nothing good to say, given by somebody who has no real involvement in my church, or given by somebody who just doesn’t get what we’re doing. Ignoring complaints by people who don’t give is understandable, but I do know mature believers who aren’t “there” with giving yet (they always get there… always…) and I for one am glad that I don’t know what people give, especially during difficult seasons of life.
Anyway, we’re getting off track, but it’s a good discussion. I plan to continue it with some folks I work with.
Tony on Wed, September 03, 2008
Frustrated wrote: “I proudly say that this is Bull Shit….I tithe faithfully. Not doing that anymore for sure…READ THE DAMN BIBLE you hypocrites!”
Frust, I feel your pain and do not disagree, but I think you should also take your own advice about reading the Bible (and not in a million years would spiritual maturity and wisdom refer to it as “THE DAMN BIBLE”). Zeal is not all that God calls for. He also calls for holiness - not just in how we do church - but in how we talk about it, too.
Proverbs 8:13 (NIV) - To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.
Proverbs 16:23 (NASB77) - The heart of the wise teaches his mouth, And adds persuasiveness to his lips.
Proverbs 16:27 (TEV) - Evil people look for ways to harm others; even their words burn with evil.
James 3:10 (NIV) - Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be.
Ephesians 4:29 (NASB77) - Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Let’s reform things, but let’s not discredit it our passion by our mouth nor actions.
David on Wed, September 03, 2008
Thanks Tony
David on Wed, September 03, 2008
Over-all, it seems that people who generally work with people (this is not a seriously hard-labor job physically), most often in air conditioned offices all week, the average pay is pretty good. I work in a job in which I inspect the work of a number of skilled workers in an industrial environment. Most of us get paid the same or close. Most of us are looked at by the community as being very well-paid compared to the average member of our community….and we are. However, the kind of numbers I’m seeing here, most of the guys I work with know we could only day dream about having such high pay and benefits working in a largely non-physical labor field.
Being a shepherd of only 125 people and bringing in 62k a year? “Aaaahhhh wouldn’t that be nice?” I’ve heard so many co-workers say.
Regardless, whether we are paid clergy or not, we live in a great country. Hopefully we never will dare to complain about what we have compared to the other 75% of the Earth. We own things many other Earth inhabitants only thought was science fiction. We can easily go to the Doctor and pay him/her over two hundred dollars (a year’s wage for many) for a five minute visit because of a red mark on our finger we’re wondering about. Thank you thank you thank you God for the blessings you have given us as “low-paid” ministers and parishioners in North America. (My apologies to anyone ouside of that boundary.
GEM on Wed, September 03, 2008
iT’S FRUSTRATING TO GET TO KNOW SOME PEOPLE IN OUR CHURCH WHO CONFESS THAT THEY ARE CHRISTIANS BUT DO NOT ANY CONCERNS FOR MINISTERS LIKE US. I MYSELF IS A MINISTER RECEIVING I CONSIDER A BLESSING ALTHOUGH IT IS THE LEAST I GUESS AMONG YOU GUYS. hOWEVER IT IS MUCH JUST MONEY OR CONPENSATION WE RECEIVED FROM OUR CONGREGATION THAT MOTIVATES US PASTORS TO SERVE GOD AND THE PEOPLE HE ENTRUST TO OUR CARE.
MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
Peter Hamm on Thu, September 04, 2008
David,
You bring up another important point. If we spend our whole week in our air-conditioned office, we’re missing out on much of what we’re supposed to do (most of it?) as pastors, don’t you think?
We are insanely rich in this country (US), any of us who had three square meals yesterday and will have them again today. That’s insanely rich by global standards!
Sponsor a World Vision or Compassion child (or two) TODAY!
Okay, now, back on point.
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Leonard on Thu, September 04, 2008
David, it is true many pastors do not sweat it out on the job site. But that does not mean the job of pastor is not physically demanding.
Many pastors do what is never seen by anyone other than God. They do the heavy lifting of grief and comfort for families who will never darken the door of their churches. In my first church I never buried one person from my church but I did services for kids who died in their cribs, people caught in gang activity, murdered people, people who took their lives, leaving behind a scar and question that cannot be answered and a dozen other horrific situations.
This is very demanding. emotionally, physically, spiritually… It is never done in the 9-5 time frame either. Of course there are the couples who have decided that cannot live together any longer as man and wife, there is the husband whose wife left him for some guy at work, the husband who from time to time hits his wife, the man who for some reason of his past and his choices has molested a kid, possible and often his own. Pastors deal with this stuff. This is serious heavy lifting.
Did I also mention that these are not usually planned or scheduled events? We don’t get to say, hey on Thursday I do grief work… if you have someone die on Monday, wait till Thursday. The expectations on pastors are unique as well.
Expectations about family, biblical ones and not so biblical ones. What we are expected to know, to do, to think, to act… are all surreal at times. There are a lot of jobs out there but not many carry with them the scrutiny a pastor gets. From God we are held to a stricter judgment and higher standard. From people we are helped to a standard that includes; expertise in human hearts, biblical truth, wisdom, social issues, family issues, all relationships, finances and much more. We are supposed to be experts in marriage, parenting, communication all while maintaining great health, great attitudes, great teeth and great… Well you get the picture. We are expected to be funny but not too funny, smart but not considered smart in “real life” issues, we are most often highly educated, most often entering a field which the expense of our education does not and will not match for about a gazillion years.
Did you know I can never be rude, tired, snippy, cranky, fussy without giving God a bad name? Most people, if they lose their temper will not lose their job, if they look at porn will not lose their job, if they curse now and again will not lose their job, if they get divorced will not lose their job, if they tell the truth will not lose their job, if they lie will not lose their job… but I have seen pastors lose their jobs over every on of these issues.
So to assume we work in an air conditioned building, getting great pay for a job that is not that physically demanding is an error. My day usually starts way before the sun comes up and struggles to end before the sun goes down. By the way, pastors never get to not be pastors. When I travel, go to the store, see the game, go camping… I am still the pastor. I still am accountable to the ethics of the profession in my private and public life. If my church does not do it all “just right” you will never get the blame, but I will. If I lead people to places that do not want to go, they write nasty notes, if someone is not growing, I get the blame, if we run short of money, I don’t get paid… I think you can see where I am going with this.
I have never pastored for money. I have never pastored for fame. I pastor because it is what God made me to do and I want to honor him. I do not do it for the perks, bennies and applause because frankly, you couldn’t pay enough to do what I do week in and week out. I pastor because my Father has heard the cries of his people and has sent a deliverer and without that Deliverer, Jesus, those cries will end in death. I pastor so people will know the greatness of my God. I am richer than money can ever make me, more successful than success can make me and I am famous enough that in at least one place in heaven my name was written.
That being said, I draw my living from the preaching of the word. I work harder than anyone would ever know, doing what no one will ever see and I love it.
This is very demanding. emotionally, physically, spiritually… It is never done in the 9-5 time frame either. Of course there are the couples who have decided that cannot live togehter any longer as man and wife, there is the husband whose wife left him for some guy at work
Peter Hamm on Thu, September 04, 2008
Gee Leonard, the pastors in my church have it much easier. We only work on Saturday night and Sunday morning. The rest of the time we play golf…
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Seriously, thanks for that post. You echo my (and other people’s, I’m sure) thoughts exactly…
Jan on Fri, September 05, 2008
Leonard, that was awesome! Very well said.
I would add also that your family has a lot of those expectations too.
I read somewhere, I think it was J.B. London, that the stress on a pastor compares to the stress of the president.
I believe it.
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