Ray Boltz: "I don't believe God hates me anymore"

Ray Boltz: “I don’t believe God hates me anymore”

Posted on May 25, 2010
Viewed 3104 times
(92) comments

Remember Ray Boltz? It's been nearly seven years since Ray 'came out of the closet' and took a hiatus from Christian Music...

But now Boltz is back with a new album, and a new belief. And a call for Christians to not discriminate against homosexuals.

Here is one of the lyrics to a song called "Who Would Jesus Love?"

Would He only love the ones
Who looked the same as me
Would He only offer hope
When He saw similarity
Would He leave the others waiting
Like a stranger at the gate
Would He discriminate.

Or, part of the lyrics of his song "Don't Tell Me Who To Love"

Don't tell me who to love,
Don't tell me who to kiss,
Don't tell me that there's something wrong,
Because I feel like this.

Maybe you're in love today and you've been making wedding plans
But there is someone in your way shouting things cause they don't understand
The judge says that's not legal, the preacher calls it a sin
Oh you just remember they were wrong before and they're wrong again

On his transformation, Boltz says: "I don’t believe God hates me anymore...I always thought if people knew the true me, they’d be disgusted, and that included God. But for all the doubts, there’s this new belief that God accepts me and created me, and there’s peace.”

Make no doubt about it... how the church responds to the issue of homosexuality will be one of the major issues in the church over the next decade.

What do you think? You can read more on Boltz in a New York Times article written recently here...

Todd

(PS -- I was never a big Ray Boltz fan. Ever. But take a short listen to the song linked above. Let's just say, the music itself would not make me a fan, ever. Not one of Boltz's best songs, gay or not gay.)

Comments

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Brandon on Wed, May 26, 2010

Fishon said:

I do NOT know what you are talking about. I did NOT reference the story you are talking about

Response:

Sure you did.

“fishon on Tue, May 25, 2010

��Rick, what constitutes a �stone thrower,� in your opinion?��-Could it be something like: The acts of the sinful nature are obvious�I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this WILL NOT [caps mine] inherit the kingdom of God.�
/end quote
Brandon on Wed, May 26, 2010

@fishon

you said:
��Well, Rick, if I understand you right, man can become saved but continue to be a murderer��must be if he can continue to rape and be a drunk.
All I can say is��-You have changed the grace of our God into a license for immorality [Jude 4].
/end quote

Rick hasn�t change grace in any manner, fishon. Grace is something that�s provisioned for without exception to every person, everywhere. We didn’t earn it. We can�t lose it.

In the same manner, salvation isn�t something earned or lost. It simply is.

Jesus said it�s finished. Not “it�s finished, except for these couple last things you need to do, personally.�

Now, if you want to live by the letters of the law, that�s fair and fine for you. But please don�t put constraints on the depth of the love, the grace, and the mercy of God.

And as we read in the story, Jesus didn�t condemn the woman in adultery. He forgave her without her asking, in the midst of what she was doing. That�s where transformation happens. When you can extend that kind love, without judgment and condemnation, or rules and regulations, things begin changing in people.

What do you believe grace to be, fishon?
Kevin on Wed, May 26, 2010

Well, people… I, too, am pleased to read through a long a respectful discussion. It looks like a safe and anonymous forum to share my “experience”. Five years ago, at 23 years of age, my son told us of his attempts to commit suicide over despair at reconciling his orientation for men with his strongly held beliefs. We were devastated over our ignorance that he was struggling and in pain - and we were unaware.

There has been a mutual determination to remain close as family - and I think we have been successful. HOURS into DAYS of discussion, prayer, counsel and some great conferences like “Love Won Out” (where the mantra is “they are your children, love them”) and stacks of books and videos have helped…

Experts (including a doctoral level therapist in our church) agree on one thing: Nobody really knows how it happens. I personally think it might be bilogical (NOT genetic) and environmental. But it’s not as much a choice… more like a final surrender. I’ll tell you one thing - when you put a face on it, it’s a whole lot less theoretical.

Is change possible? With God all things are possible, but I am not Him. So I take my son as he is today and love him passionately!
Fred on Wed, May 26, 2010

OK, I don’t feel so great today and all I can say is puke. Sorry.
fishon on Wed, May 26, 2010

Brandon:
Fishon said:

I do NOT know what you are talking about. I did NOT reference the story you are talking about

Response:

Sure you did.

�fishon on Tue, May 25, 2010

��Rick, what constitutes a �stone thrower,� in your opinion?��-Could it be something like: The acts of the sinful nature are obvious�I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this WILL NOT [caps mine] inherit the kingdom of God.�
/end quote

————Oh! Yea, I went back and saw where I asked that question in reference to Rick’s previous statement:
My point is that many heterosexual stone throwers are manifesting the same �God�s blessing� deception about their sin as do men like Boltz.
fishon on Wed, May 26, 2010

Brandon on Wed, May 26, 2010
@fishon

Rick hasn�t change grace in any manner, fishon. Grace is something that�s provisioned for without exception to every person, everywhere. We didn�t earn it. We can�t lose it.
—————Oh yea, it is extended to everyone, but not everyone accepts it. And the Bible says, “...and so have shipwrecked their faith.” Can’t shipwreck faith unless you had faith.
Are you a follower of Carlton Pearson’s teaching, “Everyone will be saved?”

Brandon said: Jesus said it�s finished. Not �it�s finished, except for these couple last things you need to do, personally.�
—————Ah then, I guess you believe Peter got it wrong on the day the church was born——the day the first church sermon was preached——-the day the first question was asked about what they should do—————and the day the first answer ways given by Peter:“Repent…and be baptized.”

Poor old Peter, denied Christ, then gets it wrong the first time out during the first church sermon.

Brandon said::And as we read in the story, Jesus didn�t condemn the woman in adultery. He forgave her without her asking, in the midst of what she was doing. That�s where transformation happens. When you can extend that kind love, without judgment and condemnation, or rules and regulations, things begin changing in people.

What do you believe grace to be, fishon?
——————-Well, if you are using your above quote, and you are citing it as grace————-you needed to finish Jesus’ words. “Go and sin no more.”——————-WHY DID YOU LEAVE THAT OUT, BRANDON?
fishon on Wed, May 26, 2010

Kevin,
I could tell you a similar story about my prositute daughter. We all have junk.
Shawn Wilson on Wed, May 26, 2010

Brandon,
Are you saying that homosexuality is NOT sin? Because I would love to know how you came to that conclusion when scripture clearly calls it just that. Please explain.
Dee on Wed, May 26, 2010

Jim B asks, “Besides, has anyone talked to Ray’s wife and kids? I’m sure they’re not so accepting of his new-found freedoms.”

Hmmm. That’s not exactly true, considering his ex-wife is now on the Board of Directors of Soulforce and some of his kids have been pretty outspoken about how they support their dad and his coming out. From what the latest NY Times article says, and from Carol Boltz’s blog, it seems like the whole family supports him pretty wholeheartedly.

His ex-wife Carol has a blog: http://myheartgoesout-carol.blogspot.com that tells her side of the story, and she’s pretty much the picture of a loving response to this kind of situation.
Brandon Mouser on Thu, May 27, 2010

@fishon: looks like you finished the verse out for me. thanks!

Could you please unclick the caps lock? It makes it appear like you’re yelling and its hard to read.

Why did I leave out the verse? Idk. Why didn’t I just copy the whole chapter? I think you missed the point of that whole interaction. It was not about her not sinning. It was about the religious establishment not caring for her as a whole person. All they wanted to do was judge and stone her. Jesus turned them away and didn’t condemn the woman. Even ‘go and sin no more’ isn’t a condemnation; it’s an admonishment. Almost like ‘hey. you almost died here because you messed up. don’t do that anymore or you might end up right back here’.
Brandon Mouser on Thu, May 27, 2010

@Shawn Wilson.

Tis true. I do not believe homosexuality is a sin.

Being that this isn’t my blog, I don’t think it’s fare that I hijack the topic to unpack this idea.

I’ve got some pieces I’m preparing to publish on my blog that might help in understanding this departure from conventional, pop-church culture beliefs.
Brandon Mouser on Thu, May 27, 2010

@Shawn Wilson.

One thing I would add.

As I’ve said before on this thread: The Bible doesn’t *clearly* state homosexuality is a sin. This discussion has gone on as long as it has because it’s not ‘clearly stated’. Your interpretation of translation may state it clearly, but that doesn’t mean it’s true.
fishon on Thu, May 27, 2010

Brandon Mouser on Thu, May 27, 2010
@fishon: looks like you finished the verse out for me. thanks!

Could you please unclick the caps lock? It makes it appear like you�re yelling and its hard to read.
—————Sorry the cap thing offended you. Not yelling, just emphasis.

Why did I leave out the verse? Idk. Why didn�t I just copy the whole chapter? I think you missed the point of that whole interaction. It was not about her not sinning. It was about the religious establishment not caring for her as a whole person. All they wanted to do was judge and stone her.
————-Yes, his talking to them was that.

Jesus turned them away and didn�t condemn the woman. Even �go and sin no more� isn�t a condemnation; it�s an admonishment.
—————Good, glad you see it that way. “Brandon, go and sin no more.”
Peter Hamm on Thu, May 27, 2010

Brandon writes [I�ve got some pieces I�m preparing to publish on my blog that might help in understanding this departure from conventional, pop-church culture beliefs.] It’s not a pop-church culture thing, Brandon. The arguments that I’ve heard (and you will doubtless re-visit on your blog) simply use revisionist lexicology. Saying that words mean something different than thay’ve meant for centuries, and even millenia. I respect and appreciate your interaction here, but you probably need to know that we’ve heard this before (at least I have).

Bless you, though!
george on Thu, May 27, 2010

i agree with brandon. i don’t think God ever hated Ray. I am glad Ray Boltz came out, I am glad Jennifer did. I think the Gay communty within/without Christianity has a lot to teach the Church.

And when people call it sin it taps into this other gene within us, the selfish gene. the one jesus talked about, the ‘dying to myself’ gene that counters the selfish gene. sin in the aramaic is about who we are becoming. not what’s wrong with us. sure, sin can be about what’s wrong with us. and how we get it wrong. but the hebrew mind toward sin is that we aren’t being the best us intended. and its another word for selfish. and jesus showed us how to deal with that by dying on the cross, not that he even necessarily died for our sins, but that dying to ourselves leads to resurrection of who we are meant to be. sin, death, resurrection, these are about the process of rebirth. thanks for your music Ray, you’ve changed a lot of lives bro. thanks!