Ray Boltz: “I don’t believe God hates me anymore”
- Posted on May 25, 2010
- Viewed 3103 times
- (92) comments
Remember Ray Boltz? It's been nearly seven years since Ray 'came out of the closet' and took a hiatus from Christian Music...
But now Boltz is back with a new album, and a new belief. And a call for Christians to not discriminate against homosexuals.
Here is one of the lyrics to a song called "Who Would Jesus Love?"
Would He only love the ones
Who looked the same as me
Would He only offer hope
When He saw similarity
Would He leave the others waiting
Like a stranger at the gate
Would He discriminate.
Or, part of the lyrics of his song "Don't Tell Me Who To Love"
Don't tell me who to love,
Don't tell me who to kiss,
Don't tell me that there's something wrong,
Because I feel like this.
Maybe you're in love today and you've been making wedding plans
But there is someone in your way shouting things cause they don't understand
The judge says that's not legal, the preacher calls it a sin
Oh you just remember they were wrong before and they're wrong again
On his transformation, Boltz says: "I don’t believe God hates me anymore...I always thought if people knew the true me, they’d be disgusted, and that included God. But for all the doubts, there’s this new belief that God accepts me and created me, and there’s peace.”
Make no doubt about it... how the church responds to the issue of homosexuality will be one of the major issues in the church over the next decade.
What do you think? You can read more on Boltz in a New York Times article written recently here...
Todd
(PS -- I was never a big Ray Boltz fan. Ever. But take a short listen to the song linked above. Let's just say, the music itself would not make me a fan, ever. Not one of Boltz's best songs, gay or not gay.)
Comments
if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, your picture will displayed on any website that supports gravitars.
george on Fri, May 28, 2010
right on rich. i just wanted to add that sin isn’t the point. that helping people become better people to me is the gospel. not fixing people of something that has almost become over-mythical within christianity. that are job is to look beyond sin almost as if it doesn’t exist and see the person for who they are meant to be but love them as they are, but i think it also starts with us doing the same with ourselves first. most of the problem with judgement is because people don’t love themselves enough, think about that for a second.
CS on Sat, May 29, 2010
george:
“that helping people become better people to me is the gospel.”
There’s your problem right there. The Gospel is that Christ died for the sins of the ungodly. Check 1 Corinthians 15 for a more detailed explanation of what we are supposed to be proclaiming.
And, yes, homosexuality is a sin.
—
CS
george on Sat, May 29, 2010
CS: ‘there’s my problem”?—that’s incredibly dangerous language; people in history have used that language that thought what they were doing was right. but wasn’t, it ended up killing sacred life, just a quick warning when youre in a discussion not to use that.
and if we’re in a discussion saying that something is ‘sin’ isn’t enough to prove that it is.
and who said that was the gospel? that could be easily what paul thought the gospel, but he could be a wrong (he was human after all) and two he never divulges a step-by-step process on what the gospel is or should be.
plus jesus spoke aramaic more than he spoke greek. in aramaic the word gospel is ‘sevartha’—it doesn’t mean someone needs to pray to accept jesus to be saved. it just means ‘hope’ and nothing else, no additives or preservatives, just hope. and that looks different for each person, and since it does look different for each person it means we have no arrogant right to just what the gospel should or shouldn’t be. love, love is the answer, unless we believe that love isn’t strong enough, is that what you’re saying?
CS on Sat, May 29, 2010
george:
“and who said that was the gospel? that could be easily what paul thought the gospel, but he could be a wrong (he was human after all) and two he never divulges a step-by-step process on what the gospel is or should be.”
Congratulations, you’ve just denied the infallibility of Scripture.
“love, love is the answer, unless we believe that love isn’t strong enough, is that what you’re saying?”
What’s the question, again?
—
CS
george on Sat, May 29, 2010
i think you have assumed i have denied the infallibility of scripture.
if i have denied anything, i may have denied your definition of infallibility. and jesus invites us into a place of denial. ‘you must die to yourself’ he says quite a bit, dying to what though? dying to our answers, dying to our theology, dying to our status, dying to ourselves isn’t just dying in certain parts, its dying to everything.
i have re-pasted the question here “love, love is the answer, unless we believe that love isn�t strong enough, is that what you�re saying? “
what i am asking is if you think that love isn’t as strong as sin? and if you think that our role is go around pointing out sin or is it god’s role?
do you also recognize your/mine historical contingency? they were jews not westerners, they spoke aramaic, not english or greek (most of the writers wrote in aramaic; google ‘aramaic primacy’)—gospel even in the greek has no connection to the idea of jesus dying on the cross or rising from the dead. the gospel was news of victory or a gift given to a messenger. the gift itself was called the gospel. so then the gospel is when give ourselves (‘die to ourselves’) to another.
CS on Sun, May 30, 2010
george:
“and jesus invites us into a place of denial. ‘you must die to yourself’ he says quite a bit, dying to what though? dying to our answers, dying to our theology, dying to our status, dying to ourselves isn’t just dying in certain parts, its dying to everything.”
And how do you know this? Using your logic for Paul, those words that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John could have been wrong, too, because they were just human beings.
“what i am asking is if you think that love isn’t as strong as sin? and if you think that our role is go around pointing out sin or is it god’s role?”
How do you believe people get convicted of sin?
“the gospel was news of victory or a gift given to a messenger.”
Again, what is that message? Paul summarized it pretty clearly.
—
CS
george on Sun, May 30, 2010
I noticed you didn’t answer my last two questions about ‘whether its our (other flawed humans; “let him who has no sin…”) place to condemn/others? if the message of jesus was a ‘free gift’ like so many say, why is that they have to jump through hoops to get it? and if it is free than why do ‘christians’ feel the need to make cursory judgements when jesus, more than any other thing, focuses on love as the answer…so what are ‘we’ saying when all we do is focus on the opposite? i mean someone could ‘believe’ all the ‘right’ things about jesus and still not get his message. either we are to love others or condemn them, which is it? if its the former than it seems we are followers, if its the latter than we are claiming self-deification.
and yeah, youre right, matthew, mark, luke probably could be wrong as well. they were human. but that wasn’t the point of my question preceding that?
CS on Sun, May 30, 2010
george:
“I noticed you didn’t answer my last two questions about ‘whether its our (other flawed humans; “let him who has no sin…”) place to condemn/others?”
According to John 3:18, they’re already condemned. We proclaim the Law in presenting the Gospel so that people will become convicted of sin (Psalm 19:7; Galatians 3:24). And you’ve also taken that quote from John 8 out of context.
“if the message of jesus was a ‘free gift’ like so many say, why is that they have to jump through hoops to get it?”
It is a free gift. And if a person is saved, they will respond by repenting of their sins and placing their faith in Christ. That means that they will turn away from their old lifestyles of sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). That’s no jumping through hoops; that’s the outward evidence of the new creation.
“and if it is free than why do ‘christians’ feel the need to make cursory judgements when jesus, more than any other thing, focuses on love as the answer…”
I’d recommend reading through 1 John, which both says that God is Love (4:8), and for the key signs that a person is saved (5:13). One of which is that we abide not actively in sin (3:18).
“i mean someone could ‘believe’ all the ‘right’ things about jesus and still not get his message. “
You’re right. Matthew 7 testifies to that.
“either we are to love others or condemn them, which is it? if its the former than it seems we are followers, if its the latter than we are claiming self-deification.”
We do love them. And sometimes, in loving someone, you have to say, “Hey, you’re doing it wrong.”
“and yeah, youre right, matthew, mark, luke probably could be wrong as well. they were human. but that wasn’t the point of my question preceding that?”
I was being facetious in that response to you. Now, if you are being serious and denying the infallibility of the Bible because the authors are merely human, then I would say that you are in really dangerous territory. That would be a denial of 2 Timothy 3:16, and as a primary-level issue, it could be described as heresy.
—
CS
george on Sun, May 30, 2010
CS: thanks for the thoughts.
It still seems that you are comfortable with the idea that you or anyone who is or might be conceived as ‘righteous’ has a right/responsible to point another fault out, am I right in assuming this?
also, jesus spoke aramaic right? the hebrew word for condemn means to be ‘led astray’, it also connotes the idea that whatever one’s behaviour is leads them away; but it also gives the idea that whatever they choose if it leads them in a bad direction (ex: stealing) than them going to jail is their condemnation. not someone saying they are a sinner or that what they’ve done is wrong. it isn’t our role to point the finger-ever. Paul (a human flawed author) said in four chapters that it wasn’t our role to judge others. the word for judge in the greek means to divinely judge/point the finger/blame/or say ‘youre doing it wrong’. what he was saying was that when we decide to ‘help’ someone along we are stepping in and calling ourselves god. i would also add when we define sin and point the fingers, not only are we the first to cast stones, we are the first to condemn/judge of which we are encouraged not to do.
i also think its dangerous to apply scripture to every situation, like the old example of ‘judas hung himself, go and do likewise’. scripture was speaking into a time, in a language with a culture. if anything we all are writing scripture now with our lives. a good book to read on all this is by author karen armstrong in a book called ‘the bible:biography’. that when they (humans) were compiling their oral story, they weren’t intending others to go and make ‘doctrine’ out of it. there is laces of their own theology throughout, sure, but its their theology. we can glean from it, but it would be dangerous to assume it should be ours. that is literary colonization.
also the ancients jews thought it was their responsibility to wrestle with scripture. they had this myth story about a guy named jacob who wrestled with an angel as a metaphor for questioning and grappling with scripture, none of scripture was off-limits. they also believed each scripture had up to 70 different interpretations. 70!
the idea behind the timothy letter again is a letter first and foremost dealing with issues and instructing a young new church planter. in a context. and god-breathed means alive. and god-breathed is what we are. we are god-breathed, scripture is god-breathed, therefore we are scripture. our lives are scripture. and if something is alive it means it grows, changes, matures and evolves, this is the same for scripture.
also feel free to follow the link to my website and see if your words stand true (if i am a *heretic*).
CS on Mon, May 31, 2010
george:
“It still seems that you are comfortable with the idea that you or anyone who is or might be conceived as ‘righteous’ has a right/responsible to point another fault out, am I right in assuming this?”
How do you define the preaching the Law of God (Ten Commandments) for the Holy Spirit to work the conviction of sin?
“Paul (a human flawed author) said in four chapters that it wasn’t our role to judge others.”
Verses, please? Oh, wait. That’s right…
“i also think its dangerous to apply scripture to every situation, like the old example of ‘judas hung himself, go and do likewise’.”
Hmmm…
“that when they (humans) were compiling their oral story, they weren’t intending others to go and make ‘doctrine’ out of it.”
So when Paul wrote Timothy and said that all scripture was profitable for doctrine, I guess he didn’t really mean, “ALL,” then?
“they had this myth story about a guy named jacob who wrestled with an angel as a metaphor for questioning and grappling with scripture, none of scripture was off-limits.”
“Myth story?” Do you believe this event actually happened as described in the Bible?
“also feel free to follow the link to my website and see if your words stand true (if i am a *heretic*). “
I didn’t see a statement of faith. Do you happen to have a concise area where you outline your theological statements? For example, here are three yes or no questions that would sort things out for me:
-Do you believe that a person who has never heard of Jesus Christ can go to Heaven of their own merit?
-Do you believe in the Trinity, including the deity of Christ?
-Do you believe in the literal virgin birth, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
—
CS
george on Mon, May 31, 2010
“How do you define the preaching the Law of God (Ten Commandments) for the Holy Spirit to work the conviction of sin?”
Coming from a Jewish perspective, The ten commandments were a covenant between the jewish people and God, not all of mankind; the noahide laws were made for all of mankind. (Note: some jewish historical documents didn’t even have moses receiving the Ten Commandments; you can verify this through the book I referred you to earlier - again, rather than disagreeing, check it out)
In your question, you’re equating our role to that of the Holy Spirit. We aren’t the holy spirit. We aren’t to convict others of sin, Paul talks about that. That’s the role of the holy spirit alone. and all the words in matthew 28:19-20 (most call this the ‘great commission; some biblical historians wonder if jesus said this as well)—all the words he uses there aren’t literal, again, remember first they are poets.
even the word baptise is the only place in matthew where baptise doesn’t mean to dunk someone; its a lifestyle term. all the words even preaching is connected with what your life is doing.
in the west, we focus so much on words, in the east its more about action.
I study a lot of the Jewish understanding of scripture, so some of what youre butting up against is that. Like for example, the story of Jacob wrestling the angel, that’s not a surprise its a myth, or the story of Job, the Hebrew writers were first poet-story-tellers then writers.
For example, the story of Adam and Eve was a borrowed from a 22,000 year old cylinder seal, now instead of getting angry, research this. Rather than assuming I am wrong, find out. I think its important to remember that they were compiling their oral story for future generations. Also, the Paul statement about scripture was referring to the OT, they didnt’ have his (human, flawed) letters compiled just yet.
i don’t have a statement of faith, because our lives should be that statement. the ancient jews believed that it didn’t matter what you believed about god, but how you lived your life orientated to that god. if you look at some of my blogs you can get a glimpse of where i am at,
it seems you are very concerned about where i stand? we don’t need labels or statements of faith to have a conversation. we don’t need to believe the ‘same’ exact things unless you are intentionally trying to pigeon-hole me or label me; labels create distance between people; jesus was one such person who did his best to shatter labels. to shatter the gaps between people. we don’t need them.
CS on Mon, May 31, 2010
george:
I’ll make this short. Given your previous statements of refuting the inerrancy of Scripture (the flawed author argument), calling stories in the Bible (including Adam and Eve, Jacob, Moses receiving the Ten Commandments), “myths,” your inability or unwillingness to answer simple questions about the Christian faith, and the limited information on your website that seems to be focused on the Emergent church and other unorthodox theology, you would appear to be a heretic.
It gives me no pleasure in saying that, and I know the gravity of saying such a thing. Please repent of your sins and put your faith in Christ.
—
CS
george on Mon, May 31, 2010
does it make you feel better now that you have a label? does it make you feel like you can ‘box’ me in/control me and the conversation? i am asking sincerely. because it does seem like you do?
also, i guess you’re saying that ‘one can lose their salvation’ (which means healing; not saying a prayer to save one’s soul - i am not changing anything, just going back to definitions; we seem too comfortable with spouting theology over what words we are choosing; when the words themselves don’t have the meanings we have added) - and i you are saying one can lose their salvation, than you are claiming to be a deity; if you are saying one can lose their salvation than you also are saying that the value of life is summed up with one decision, i believe in a God that is bigger than that.
CS on Mon, May 31, 2010
george:
“does it make you feel better now that you have a label? does it make you feel like you can ‘box’ me in/control me and the conversation? i am asking sincerely. because it does seem like you do?”
No, it makes me feel sad, honestly. I hate it when people think that they have the truth, but the truth is not within them. For example…
“also, i guess you’re saying that ‘one can lose their salvation’ (which means healing; not saying a prayer to save one’s soul - i am not changing anything, just going back to definitions”
Sigh. This is why I hate it so much, because for all your trying to understand what salvation is, you miss the mark entirely.
And, no, people cannot lose their salvation. Instead, more of those who claim to be saved have never been, which makes it even worse. I fear this is the case with you.
Please, before God calls your life debt due, repent of your sins and go to Christ.
—
CS
george on Mon, May 31, 2010
CS: it seems you are assuming God is one-sided. It seems you are assuming truth is one-sided. Paul was in the court-yards of Athens validating Greek philosopy (‘other religions’) . Truth never once converted to Christianity. Truth isn’t just in christianity. To assume so is to assume that God is small.
To espouse yourself to a system where you feel the need to oppress others with religious talk is in no way loving however you try to justify your behaviour. In fact, its religious hegemony.
you seem to project this sort of (albeit, maybe unintentional) arrogance; as if God (albeit, according to some of your views, who seems very small) has bestowed on you the responsibility to condemn and judge others.
all i have done here is share some jewish (remember,the authors were jewish, not english or greek speaking (some were in the NT) - they spoke aramaic and hebrew and were semitic, not christian. all i have done is share with you some of their language and because it counters what you have been taught you automatically assume i am damned to hell or don’t have ‘the truth’; think about that, how destructive is that attitude. there was hitler and the pharisees and others who thought the same. love, not theology is the answer. love, not right answers, love. and i have even encouraged you to go and check and verify what i am saying but since you have responded so quickly, i can only assume you haven’t and maybe don’t even want to, because you are ‘secure’ in your faith. if you’re that secure, than why are you so afraid to check out the things i have said? it tells me the exact opposite of what you are trying to project when all you do is respond. again i invite you to check on some of the things i have said rather than simply respond with rhetoric.
Page 6 of 7 pages « First < 4 5 6 7 >
Post a Comment