Reviving a Plateaued Church Without Ticking People Off
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, June 26, 2006
- Viewed 262
- (67) comments so far
1. Please do not give the author of this quote in the comments section. I’ve give that later. And if you don’t know who said it, make your remarks off of your initial thoughts. (In other words, don’t look up the source before you comment.)
2. Please start your comment by saying whether or not you are on a church staff. This is important. Just say, I’m a pastor; I’m a worship leader; whatever. If you’re in non-paid church leadership, just say you’re a lay leader.
3. OK… here’s the quote… read it, think about it, and comment…
“If your church has been plateaued for six months, it might take six months to get it going again. If it’s been plateaued a year, it might take a year. If it’s been plateaued for 20 years, you’ve got to set in for the duration! I’m saying some people are going to have to die or leave. Moses had to wander around the desert for 40 years while God killed off a million people before he let them go into the Promised Land. That may be brutally blunt, but it’s true. There may be people in your church who love God sincerely, but who will never, ever change.”
I’ll be back after we get a good amount of comments and tell you who said it, and what my thoughts are on the subject (if you’re interested).
I look forward to your comments!
Todd
I would like the honest opinion of everyone on the following quote. Maybe you've heard it before. It's making it's rounds on the internet the last couple of weeks. I won't even tell you who it's from (although it's easy enough to find out) and some of you will be able to guess anyway. Here's what I'd like to do...
Comments
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Dean on Mon, June 26, 2006
Aside fromt he fact that God rarely kills people outright and the wilderness circumstance was more of the letting sleeping dogs die, it seems that this person is persuaded that there is no supernatural element to spiritual revival and renewal. This follows very much in the humanistic vein of church growth by sociological and scientific application. God is neither controlled nor limited by time or space. Brutally blunt, yep. Spiritually sound, nope.
Daniel on Mon, June 26, 2006
I am not a church leader, pastor, or anything with any official title. I simply am a member of a local congregation, and a part of a small group.
I think the quote (regardless of who said it) is pretty much right on. My dad is a pastor, and I’ve seen my fair share of churches, so all I can say is that the quote feels right. People who aren’t used to moving aren’t going to move. And if you try to move them, chances are, they’ll conspire to vote you off the island.
Of course, the spirit can move and do something unexpected, but people are pretty darn good at quenching the spirit, and if they haven’t cultivated that openness (and have therefore plateaued), chances are, getting them off that plateau (for a pastor or for the spirit) is going to be quite difficult.
My two cents.
Brent on Mon, June 26, 2006
Oh, how true it is! I’m a Children’s Pastor who’s between full-time ministries right now. The reason I’m looking for something else is because I’m tired of waiting for people to do before I can carry out the vision I believe God has given me for ministry.
Carole on Mon, June 26, 2006
I am a lay leader in my church. I think this is probably true in this persons experience. I also think too often church’s try to make excuses why they are stale and not growing but the bottom line is change is part of the Christian walk so from the leadership down that needs to be taught and explored daily or the church will not be relevant and able to reach the world around them. Biblical truths change the world when they are walked in not just read aloud. As a church starts to grow it has growing responsibility to be a church of integrity and truth under ever growing watchful eyes so maybe it’s just easier to stay the same insted of having to walk into more responsibility and more work.
I am glad that the church I go to is always thinking of ways to reach more people, serve more people, build more lives and give to more people, it’s not comfortable, it’s not easy but it’s what we are called to do so we must be about our fathers business not just warming pews.
Rich Kirkpatrick on Mon, June 26, 2006
I am a worship pastor. This is VERY right on. Revival is one thing, but sustained growth by simply being healthy should be the norm. It is so much easier to plant a whole new church than to change. Sometimes there are months of being flat, and this can be turned around as stated. The other is true, too where years might take years! I will not quote who said this, but one leader says in his church that “we are seven funerals away from revival.”
Wes Brockway on Mon, June 26, 2006
I’m Pastor of our church…been pastor for 8 years been with the church 14 years. I thought this and taught similarly at our church but perhaps not so brutally.
Our church was doing great through the mid 70’s. It grew from a church start in ‘61 to a church with more than 200 and all the programs. God provided all the church needed to take the next step and the church, or some in the church, said no. Then followed 20 years of decline.
I believe God judged the church just like He did the Israelites. They were supposed to trust Him and they didn’t so He withheld his blessings. There was a core group who faithfully worked and prayed. I won’t take time to tell the whole story but suffice it to say we recently moved into a new building in a new community with twice as much land and many more blessings and everything is paid for. We’ve picked up 20 new members in a year and a half, we’re a small church, 20 would be 200% growth ie double and we continue to have regular visitors. There are only two members at the church that were there when I came 14 years ago and they are two of the faithful ones. Many died, others moved on.
I’ve often thought that since two of the 12 believed they should follow God into the Canaan Land that there were probably a similar percentage of all the people who felt the same way, but God did not let any go in. It is an indication that the faithlessness of a few can hold back everyone.
mbartlettFL on Mon, June 26, 2006
Ok. I am a former assistant pastor and am currently principal of a Christian school. I was part of a church plant for 4 years. My thoughts are that the church is a LIVING organism that is supposed to be just that. Now that can be spiritual growth and physical as well. In our church plant we saw our church grow by sometimes 100 percent in 6 months. We started with 16 and four years later hit 165 not including big holiday weekends. I kept waiting for our growth spurt to drop off and I think we leveled some. Moses wandered because of disobedience of him and his people. If that is the case then what is the reflection of the shepherd and the flock. I think that is the key here. It is easy to say that some people need to be shed, but often that is an excuse for plateaued churches.
Al on Mon, June 26, 2006
When the right attitudes prevail in a church then it will succeed, otherwise, take off your shoes and relax it is going to be a long time before anything happens. Music won’t change it, a new preacher won’t change it, a new board won’t change it.
Again, unless attitudes move from the negative to the positive… get your life jacket on because pretty soon you’ll be in the water.
Rob on Mon, June 26, 2006
I’m just a twentysomething kid with a heart for the future of the Church.<br><br>
It is often said that a measure of truth is how it actually fits with reality. This commentary definitely seems to match up with my experience of churches that have long plateaued and are experiencing little more than growth through new births to families already in the church. And yet, these thoughts still rub me odd—do we not believe in a God with the power through the Spirit to use even the weakest body of Christ to move forward the Gospel? Do we not believe that this same God desires for the Gospel to spread and his Church to grow? So is it a good idea to write off plateau-ed churches with a some people “will never, ever change” statement? <br><br>
I don’t claim to know anything about how to bring growth back to a declining church. However, I doubt that looking forward without the hope and expectation of a Christ-led renewal is a good way to get there.
Leonard on Mon, June 26, 2006
I am a senior pastor and the comment communicates a principle that has merit. I don’t know if we can responsibly relate it to the Israelites nomadic adventures. Human nature being what it is, churches of all sizes seem to want to turn inward and in doing so close off to reaching people for Christ. This inward focus will inevitably kill all kinds of growth in the church. It is why some churches stay small but have “Mature” Christians in them, mature Christians who never reach anyone for Christ that is.
Rev Pastor J. Andre Gagne' III on Mon, June 26, 2006
Ouch. I am an interim pastor. The comments made are truly from a minister who knows how to press people’s psycho-babble buttons. He/she must be a well read person who has a vast knowledge of ministry and perhaps having a mega church/ multi-campus work. I would think perhaps someone from the Middle East or Far East, as they see the faulty worship in the American churches much clearer that we can. I suppose this person might even be Islamic with the over tones of slaughter to the “lazy” Christians in churches today. It also feels like they don’t have much faith in what God can do to people’s hearts. Sounds like if they don’t contribute to the work, get rid of them, by kicking or killing them off.
Chris on Mon, June 26, 2006
Associate Pastor at a church.
Baloney.
I was a part of a church that had plateaued in a lot of obvious areas for the past 30 years. They brought in a new pastor who had vision and direction, and led with purpose, and the church exploded. The spiritual growth of the church is now (5 years later) immeasurably greater than it was before.
This quote is dangerous in the fact that it seems to place all the responsibility for growth on the key leader. Sometimes he can affect change, sometimes he can’t. If the church has plateaued for 6 months, it _might_ take 6 months to get it back. It might not. It might take 3 years. It depends on the reason for the plateau.
chris on Mon, June 26, 2006
Sorry to post back to back - how embarrassing.
As far as God killing people off… it seems to me that God is in the business of changing lives moreso than in the business of taking them. Loving, honest, purposeful leadership beats the heck out of waiting for people to die off any day of the week.
Rick on Mon, June 26, 2006
I’m a lay leader for 20 years now. My experience matches the one described. People tend to build inertia. Those that have invested the most and have been around the longest can be the biggest barrier to moving on. Sadly the majority leave rather than change.
The wilderness experience is part of our journey - individually and corporately. God’s overall intent is not to kill off a million people. His intent is to kill the thing inside that holds us back from Him.
We have to die to ourselves. Those that leave are those that resist death. I am learning to like having the junk in me killed but it is not easy.
Bottom line, God wants does not want us to leave, He wants us to transform. Unfortunately we often find leaving easier.
JHPW on Tue, June 27, 2006
I am a pastor’s wife, and I sure have seen the situation described in the original post. I’ve known several pastors in our community that have tried to revive a plateaued church, and found their people so resistant to change that the pastors were, as someone said earlier, “voted off the island”. God can certainly do a supernatural work and change peoples hearts, and I’ve no doubt that there are people out there who could tell remarkable stories of such. But it is also true that some people have dug their heels in and simply will not be persuaded of the need for change. In those cases, some may need to move on (in one way or another) before anything can happen. There’s an old joke - one pastor says to another pastor after a week of revival meetings “Did you have many added to your church”. The other pastor replies, “No, but we had a few blessed subtractions.”
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