Strippers Turn Tables on Church

Posted on August 10, 2010
Viewed 4469 times
(100) comments

North of Columbus, OH, there is a battle brewing. It pits a church against a strip club. For the last four years, Pastor Bill Dunfee and several from New Beginnings Ministries have been rallying outside of the local strip club. OK, well... they weren't there to take advantage of the Fox Hole's services, but rather to utilize their bullhorns to talk down the businesses' potential patrons. They've taken pictures of license plates in the parking lot and posted them on their website.

And they've been doing this for the past four years.

After a lawsuit against the church was struck down because of free speech rights, Tom George, the club's owner, had an idea. If the church was going to protest his club, why not have his club protest the church?

And that's what they did.

As people arrived for services at New Beginnings Ministries, they were also greeted with strippers from The Fox Hole.

That's right. The tables were turned.

Score one for the Fox Hole.

Here are my thoughts...

1. Do I think stripping is an admirable profession? No. Owning a strip club? Double no.

2. Do I think the church was right in what they did? No. Not at all. Bullhorns yelling down people? Not cool. Taking pictures of license plates and posting them on your website? Way not cool.

3. Which is more important... that people stop going to strip clubs or that they find Jesus? Which is more important... that these women stop stripping or that they find Jesus? The one thing this church has done with their actions is pretty much guarantee that none of them will have anything to do with any of these people coming to Christ. We can only pray that others will be able to show them the love of Jesus in a more constructive way.

4. I get really upset when people, under the authority of the church, make the death and resurrection of Jesus into a license to be a jerk. Matter of fact, I think it's interesting to compare how Jesus treated 'stripper types' compared to how this pastor and church does. Jesus didn't whip out his bullhorn (hey, it coulda happened) and bully people. He doesn't try to shame them into loving him either. And he doesn't get angry. In fact, he keeps his anger for the Pharisees; the religous people who were always pointing their fingers.

5. We've got to get past the thinking that non-christians are going to act like Christians. They won't. Ever. Truth be told: if we were really all that serious, we'd have plenty of work just making sure that Christians acted like Christians.

6. It's so easy for some people to get so wrapped up in fighting evil that they lose any chance they ever had at stopping the evil they're fighting against. (Read that one twice)

Should Christians stand against evil and sin? Of course. I'm just not sure this is the way to do it.

So... if you're asking me which side I'm taking on this one... I'm more prone to side with the strippers. They simply turned the tables on the church that has been bullying them for the past four years.

What's your take?

I'd love to hear it.

Todd

PS -- I'm resisting all the temptation to say the obvious jokes (that church attendance is up 25% since the strippers showed up, or that the church's offering is now mysteriously missing all the $1 bills). That just wouldn't be cool.

Comments

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denelian on Wed, August 25, 2010

i wasn’t offended by you “breaking in” - i was offened by the tone and implication with which you did so. it really came across as a “well, whatever, your religion is silly and it isn’t *real* mine is so much better, convert now” with the overtone of “if you say anything about your religion you are automatically A) prosletyzing and B) WRONG because only *MY* special magical version of Truth is really True. so THERE!”
there were many options you could have utilized to NOT come across that way. the first of which would be “i don’t like her religion. k. no need to do anything”. if you *did* feel you needed or wanted to say something, an acknowledgement that you’re a different person with a different take would have helped. a lot. because, honestly, at first, i thought you were the original person who had asked me questions, and THEN i thought that you thought i was here trying to convert people [i’m not - it’s actually a tenet of our faith that we DON’T impose it on others against their will. the ONLY reason i spoke about it as much as i did was because i was ASKED to.] it didn’t even occur to me, until after you replied to me replying to you, that maybe it wasn’t a reaction to percieved proletyzing. just sayin’. moving on.

i grant that, if one were to qualify as “systems”, different religions would be different. on the other hand, strip away the BS and prejudice, and what do you have? a “system” that, in almost all cases, tells you to *Be A Good Person. Try To Do What’s Right, Even If It Costs You, Even If It’s Hard. Be Nice To People, Help Others Because Someday You Might Need Help*.

the rest of it is window dressing. when i speak of my afterlife, that’s what i’m talking about - *MY* afterlife.

as for “Why do we only see the “bad Christians” or why does it seem like we see more of “bad Christians” than you” - well, you have a few advantages - like KNOWING a lot of Christians, and actually KNOWING that they ARE Christian. wheras those of us who *aren’t* Christian aren’t looking for Christians - sure, i might know Christians, but i don’t know that they’re Christian. [in many cases, i *DO*, which is why i DON’T hate Christians as a whole - i’ve met and become friends with many who actually are good and cool people]
on the *OTHER* hand, what Christians do we *HEAR* about? Focus on the Family, with their various hateful messages - anti-abortion activists calling themselves “pro-life” while attempting to *KILL* doctors and voting for the death penalty and saying it’s ok to torture “terrorists” [and then being insulted when one points out that *they* are terrorists. threatening people and trying to make them do what you want by terrorizing them makes one a terrorist]. we see the Westwhatever Baptist Church PICKETING military funerals because we don’t kill gays on sight. we have misogynists using their pulpits to demand women give up all the gains of the past 160 years; we have bigots using their pulpits to preach hate and war against anyone not like them; we have bigots using their pulpits and *email* to claim Obama isn’t Christian, he’s a Muslim, and Muslims are OF SATAN. we are given a *constant barrage* of BAD CHRISTIANTY.

the best example here is: Al Quida DOES NOT represent 99% of Islam - most Muslims were as horrified by 9/11 as anyone else, and most AMERICAN Muslims felt JUST as attacked by those terrorist as any Christian American [maybe more!] but the only really “NewsWorthy” muslims are those blowing things up, so that’s all people who don’t KNOW any muslims *SEE* or KNOW about muslims. so then they think “ALL MUSLIMS WANT TO KILL ALL AMERICANS” or something similar.
likewise, the hateful Christians i referenced. they are, essentially, America’s Taliban. they’re forever emulating Taliban tactics - not the least of which is the imposement of a theocracy here in the US. despite NUMEROUS LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS, these specific groups *continue* to insist “This is a Christian Nation” and imply that non-Christians can A) leave B) Convert or C) Die when they take over.
oh, and maybe women don’t need to wear burkhas, but they can’t wear THAT. or THAT. or THAT. because if they do, it’s THEIR fault if they are raped. because patriachial religions are AAAAAAAAAAALL about how men are completely and totally incapable of controling their need to rape any woman anytime anywhere, so if a woman is raped it’s because *she is a woman and therefor rapable” and is totally at fault for being a woman.

and, YES, many Christian groups say these things. LOUDLY. EVERYWHERE.

but i should do more than all those people convinced that all Muslims are evil and want to kill them? [i *do*, but thats not the point. ] Muslims are told that they must constantly work to counter-act these perceptions. but non-Christians are told that *they* have to IGNORE these perceptions, and somehow be psychic and know which Christians are which. it’s messed up. it’s wrong. people should judge everyone by the actions of a few. but when you tell *every other group* that they HAVE to work to refute said stereotype, but then insist that YOUR group doesn’t, you’ve done something even MORE wrong.
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 25, 2010

denelien, You wrote [i grant that, if one were to qualify as �systems�, different religions would be different. on the other hand, strip away the BS and prejudice, and what do you have? a �system� that, in almost all cases, tells you to *Be A Good Person. Try To Do What�s Right, Even If It Costs You, Even If It�s Hard. Be Nice To People, Help Others Because Someday You Might Need Help*.] See, in my first post (the one that I am still mystified was so offensive to you) to you I was trying to point out how “true biblical Christ-followers” don’t believe that at all, whereas IN MY EXPERIENCE, other systems of “religion” in the world do indeed encourage you in one way or another to “be a good person”. In biblical Christianity, that is putting the cart before the horse. Instead of doing good deeds for one reason or another, whether to win favor with God or otherwise, our good works are designed to flow out of a heart that has already found favor with God and can therefore now find favor with everyone around us. The whole of the “Law” in biblical Christianity can be summed up in two commandments. “Love God”. “Love your neighbor as yourself”.

Don’t be offended, by the way, if somebody like myself defends or expounds upon biblical Christianity at this particular site. It is, after all, a site that was designed to track and discuss trends and events and news in the contemporary Christian church. The site is very specific to that end.

I think some of your generalizations are based on extremes found in the media, denelian; just by example, your characterizations of bad christians? Actually, I think that you are describing something more along the lines of, pardon me for saying it, obviously stupid, bigoted, ignorant, or just plain “mean” people, who exist in every culture and religious system on earth (I might argue it’s further proof of our fallen-ness as a race). I mean, really… I actually don’t know, personally, one single Christian believer who would embrace the hate that comes out of Fred Phelps’ mouth (Westover Baptist Church), or who would be anything but in disagreement with someone who claims that to stop abortions we must kill abortion docs.

Can I counter with individuals who have founded and led countless humanitarian efforts and proclaim that they did it because Christ compelled them to? Compassion international? World Vision? I know a group of well-off businessmen and clergy in my town who decided that the homeless problem was THEIR problem and started a shelter to help folks get on their feet. Why? Because the love in their hearts that Christ put there compelled them. They would tell you that. There is a very wealthy doctor in my (very small) town who spends more and more of his time every year traveling to the third world to conduct medical missions… at his own expense… bringing as many doctors and nurses along as he can. Another friend who is a doctor is about to retire early from working too hard and taking almost no time off his whole medical career. Why? He would tell you it’s because Christ has compelled him to take his considerable gifts and GIVE them away on the mission field for the rest of what would have been a lucrative career. (He is indeed the best at his specialty in our whole area.) I might offer the example of Bono and his efforts to eliminate the oppressive debt the first world holds against the third, or his efforts to fight extreme poverty and the hopelessness of AIDS. Some Christians wouldn’t characterize him as a Christian believer, but I’ve scrutinized his words (and actions) and he appeals to the Scriptures and to Christ for his reasoning and meaning and I can tell where his mission comes from. Martin Luther King comes to mind. Flawed? perhaps. But where would we be without the mission he was driven to achieve by Christ living in him.

I’ve noticed somehow though, that characterizing Muslims as terrorists because of what a few do is offensive, but characterizing Christians by what even fewer do, while totally ignoring the obvious contributions of so many, is somehow politically correct. I continue to be mystified by this and more than a little annoyed.
Leonard on Wed, August 25, 2010

Peter,
The simple truths about the uniqueness and identity of Christ and the uniqueness and strength of the bible are very much our apologetic.

I know full well a truer history of the church that what is portrayed in the media as do you. Knowing we are Christians by the love we have has been and continues to be a struggle for many. I am not completely sure that the moment by moment of my day would evidence the realness of my faith, but as I live the body of evidence in my life does.

This is also true of the church. The body of evidence for the church is pretty overwhelming in favor of loving God… but the moment by moment junk certainly casts a shadow.
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 25, 2010

Leonard,

Yes, the moment by moment stuff casts a pall, and people like the folks I know who are AMAZING saints of God rarely get mentioned.

It’s the way God wants it, no doubt…

Peace,
Peter
denelian on Wed, August 25, 2010

Peter;

that’s the thing - i *don’t* characterize all Christians as terrorists [or even negative], nor did i at any point. nor do i know anyone who DOES - what we *DO* do, say, is “why don’t the rest of the Christans STAND UP to these a******s?! why don’t they counter the hate, spread the love? why are there *never* national stories about how Christian people do X good thing?”

oh - well, because Christians think they have a monopoly on “Good Works”?

no, *I* don’t believe that, but some do. i know a group of atheists who live near me, who spend every moment of every day when they aren’t working, sleeping or eating, helping homeless and runaways. they don’t preach, and will in fact take people to church or synagog [sp?] or mosque or other place of worship, and generally don’t even mention that they are atheist to the people they help - but the *churches* around here [which do NOTHING to help these people] are *constantly* attacking this group, because they can’t be trying to HELP people - no, no, atheists are “of the devil” and “trying to damn anyone they can”.

now, i’m not saying that your group of businessmen need to waste money *advertising* that they are helping. but they *COULD* be me vocal and public in their resitance to hate. we see almost NO Christian resistance to Hate. none.

further - one of the offensive things, that you don’t just miss, but compound! - is that you think if one isn’t Christian, one can’t love God [by whichever name] and do Good because they love God.
and you are wrong.

i don’t sit here and contantly think about my next incarnation and what i could do to get a “better one” [which would also defeat the whole purpose, but you don’t understand the purpose, so…]. no, what i, specifically have been doing, is lying here thinking “Ok, i’m now almost completely disabled and on total bed rest. i can’t mentor my kids anymore, haven’t been able to, can’t work at the women’s shelter - how can i *HELP PEOPLE* when i can’t even get myself off the bed without help?! and when i’m on all these stupid meds?! i can’t even *eat*. i gotta figure out how to be helpful”.
because i Love God, and because i Love God, i want to *HELP PEOPLE*. there is NO stricture laid upon that i *HAVE* to help people - i want to. it makes me feel worthwhile, it makes me feel like i have changed the world for the positive, in a small way.

you know who comes to help me?! one Christian, i grant [well… she rarely “helps”, mostly she comes to me for advice, but she comes to see me] but the rest are pagan or atheist, with the exception of a jewish friend. they come “help” me clean the apartment [which i cannot do] and they “help” me cook [which i also cannot do]. and they do it because we are friends, and they love me. they need nothing else, but to know that we are friends and they have helped.

just like most of them need nothing else but to know they have helped homeless people, or runaways, or battered women.

STOP JUDGING. and STOP ASSUMING that *ONLY* Christians can be selfless in the way you describe. yes, i’ve known Christians like that - but i’ve known *even more* NON-Christians like that.
Peter Hamm on Wed, August 25, 2010

denelion,

I honestly think that you continue to put “thoughts in my head” but that’s another story. It sounds like you have had quite the challenge. I’m glad there are plenty of people in your life who can help you out and be your friends, and I pray that God’s Spirit draws you into all truth.

You can follow the link on my name to contact me if you want to continue this conversation off-line, I’d be happy to do it, and I’m glad you engaged here. Thanks so much.
Brent Lacy on Thu, August 26, 2010

I agree with you. I think that the church forgot about the grace they have been given. I posted my thoughts on the story shortly after it broke here:

http://ministryplace.net/2010/08/churchgoers-strippers-protest-one-another/
Fisherman on Mon, September 06, 2010

We do not change people by condemning or shouting at them.
When did we become the mad, angry, and mean group of people?
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Leonard on Mon, September 13, 2010

Nothing to add, just wanted to be 100.