Taking Multi-site Church to a Whole New Level
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Wed, June 22, 2005
- Viewed 89
- (30) comments so far
Pastor Craig said ?We?ve seen God bless it locally and believe that state lines wouldn?t really blur the message,? he said.
Similar approaches are currently working well already... like the success of Seacoast church which has a state-wide network of churches in South Carolina.
Some other quick, interesting facts about LifeChurch.tv's expansion to Phoenix and Mesa:
- Initial investment expected to be about $1 million for each campus
- About 100 church members have committed to move from OK to AZ, find jobs there, and help start the new campuses.
- LifeChurch.tv's most recent Oklahoma City Campus was started with $1.2 million in capital raised prior to launch. The campus now has an attendance of over 2,000 with between 30-40 people making commitments to Christ each week.
- They have also produced a 28 minute TV special that will run in the Phoenix market before the launch that will show what people can expect when they attend.
- Craig said he and other ministry leaders have met with several pastors in the Phoenix area with the hopes of developing good relationships with them and their congregations. He said about eight or nine pastors from Arizona are expected to visit the Oklahoma campuses in July to get a firsthand glimpse of Life Church as the ministry prepares to become their newest neighbor.
Sounds like an interesting and exciting endeavor. I know that everyone is not a fan of the multi-site concept; but it is something that you should learn about now because it is quickly becoming an accepted and even preferred format for many churches across the country. In a post tomorrow, we'll share what Pastor Craig says to his detractors... those who feel that rather than start new campuses they should start new churches. Stay tuned...!
Here's a link to a press release from LifeChurch.tv...
Until then... what are your thoughts on LifeChurch.tv's plans?
We’ve discussed alot about the multi-site church format here at the blog, in our email newsletters and at our sister-website ChurchVideoVenues.com. Many churches are setting up additional campuses/venues, either across the building, across town, across the state, and now… even across the country. LifeChurch.tv (based in Oklahoma) recently announced that they were starting two new campuses/churches… in ARIZONA!
Comments
if you want a Globally Recognized Avatar (the images next to your profile) get them here. Once you sign up, they will displayed on any website that supports them.
Ricky on Thu, June 23, 2005
Todd said:
“If that were the case, then no one would leave ‘home’ to go to the mission field.”
Todd, how many missionaries do you know? I mean know very well, to the point where they can be honest with you about the support they receive from pastors?
I would be willing to bet that most missionaries receive support ONLY after they agree to the pastor’s demands, as regarding where to plant, what to teach, etc.
It’s sad but true that missionaries, who are the true apostles of today, are being controlled by the pursestrings that lead all the way back to the supporting pastor.
Ricky on Thu, June 23, 2005
Geoff:
I am amazed by Life Church’s passion and commitment to reaching lost people. A couple of comments:
“All of the multi-site churches I’m familiar with emphasize community through small groups as Todd said.”
Geoff, what does your church use for curriculum for the small groups, assuming they have curriculum? If so, who writes the curriculum?
Geoff:
“We have four campuses 100+ miles from our original campus, the key to shepherding for us is the Campus Pastor, not necessarily the teaching pastor. In the New Testament they often read Paul’s letters at their gatherings, but the local pastor (such as Timothy at Ephesus) was responsible for shepherding and discipleship.”
Geoff, as we briefly discussed on your blog, there were no local “pastors” in the churches of the New Testament. There were elders, who were seasoned, mature believers who helped guard the local churches against heresy but seldom was involved in the “shepherding and discipleship” of the believers. That was a CHURCH WIDE responsibility, with everyone participating and utilizing their unique ministries.
If that’s not the case, then why does Paul NEVER address one of his epistles to a church (i.e, Corinthians, Galatians, etc.) to some supposed “pastor?” In fact, he NEVER names any one in such a role?
Todd Rhoades on Thu, June 23, 2005
OK… Todd here… stepping in with his iron fist. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Ricky, are you finished? (Actually, you are… you used your five posts already).
I’m afraid that your bad experience with pastors and large churches has had an unbelieveably negative effect on you and jaded your whole outlook. I know you would disagree, but to me it seems evident.
I need to stick up for Geoff, (my AND your brother in Christ) and for the churches that are successfully using multi-site.
You’ve judged Geoff and his motives. You’ve judged his church and the church we’re talking about here (LifeChurch). You’ve over and over again judged motives, actions, and intents of the heart that you quite simply can’t know. You simply think the worst, and then attack.
Quite frankly… it’s getting old, partly because there’s nothing new that you’re saying, partly because of the way you say it. And you’re right in one sense… I’m just not getting it. But that’s ok. God’s best to you, brother… but here we choose to come alongside people who are making positive change in the Kingdom. I think that’s what Geoff, LifeChurch.tv, North Coast, Fellowship; and many others are doing through multi-sites. And that’s why I’ll support them and use this forum to help promote a method that I think has great potential for spreading the Word.
OK… let’s get back to the discussion. Again, disagreements are fine… but let’s keep away from the attacks (I’ve been lenient in this case in leaving what Ricky’s posted ‘live’) and judging of motives and keep it positive.
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Todd
Geoff Surratt on Thu, June 23, 2005
Ricky,
As to small group curriculum we let small groups choose their own. Occasionally we will ask that everyone do the same material at the same time (i.e. 40 Days of Purpose), but for the most part small groups form around their own needs and choose their own material.
As to whether the role of pastor is Biblical, as I’ve shared before we’re going to have to sort that out in Heaven. As long as were both committed to reaching lost people and helping them grow in their faith, its all good to me.
Shawn Wood on Thu, June 23, 2005
Todd,
I have been on staff at Seacoast for four years and have been blessed to be a witness to the multi-site revolution that is happening here and at many other wonderful churches.
A couple of comments:
1. “Will it last?” I think is the wrong question. The better question would be, “how many souls can be won for the kingdom of God while it lasts?”. Knowing the heart of our team and the many teams experiencing this revolution, we will gladly change methods as needed if it will introduce people to Jesus Christ.
2. “Is it ego driven?” I can speak for Seacoast and many other churches here. We love churches and love senior Pastors. We hope and pray that everyone that is a gifted speaker is empowered and speaking somewhere. We also believe that in the same way Paul’s letters were distributed, why not distribute the message of gifted teachers. Not eveyone will be attracted to our teaching style - and thus we welcome all to the revolution. We will also gladly assist other churches in anyway we can to help them reach people.
3. On a personal note - Just to “have his back”...Geoff is a friend of mine and my vocational mentor and one of the most committed men to reaching lost peopoe I know. If changing everthing we do was a better way to reach lost people, including dumping multi-site - I know he would lead the charge - I just wanted that on the record.
Todd Rhoades on Thu, June 23, 2005
Thanks, Shawn… I couldn’t agree more.
I’ve left Ricky’s original posts here because I think it serves as a good example of the case some would try to make against multi-sites (unsuccessfully, I think)… but, again, what you says is indeed correct: It shouldn’t be about multi-sites (they might work great at Seacoast and not work well somewhere else). The real discussion is about how best to reach people; and from your experience (and Geoff’s) at SeaCoast, you’re doing what’s working there and simply multiplying it. Same with LifeChurch. And, as you say, ‘as long as it’s working’ let’s reach as many people as we can! Forge ahead, Shawn!
Eric Jaffe on Fri, June 24, 2005
As a Campus Pastor for a video church. I give it a resounding amen. It works. We have grown from 18 folks with a passion for the lost to close to 700 on an average weekend with a large percentage of the growth coming from new believers. at first I was a skeptic. I was a live preacher. When I preached we has 2-5 decisions per week. Which is awesome, this 1st week we played video 15 people got saved and I have been sold out on it ever since!
Matt Murph on Fri, June 24, 2005
I have to laugh at some of these comments and let them roll off my shoulders. I remember the first time I heard the argument of, “that money could be feeding people in Africa for decades”… I think I was 8 years old. And we’ve all heard it lamely used on a trillion other topics. Sure, that money could feed people for decades. So I suppose we should stop spending money on ministry here in the US, because it cost more. After all ministry is competing with Movies, clubs, and other establishments with monster budgets. So lets just stop spending money here and send it all over there.
It’s all about diversification. My home church spends a chunk of coin on it’s multi-campus structure… sure… but they send people all over the world and build churches in other countries as well. In fact one of the worship leaders is in Africa right now, with others heading to Brazil. And seriously, “marble floors for mega productions”.... Having personally seen many of the largest churches in world…. I remember 1 marble floor… St. Peter’s in Rome (and they didn’t even pay for their marble). The rest of these so called “mega-churches” (in the U.S.) are typically built with a concrete slab foundation with long lasting indoor-outdoor carpet. Personally I think that’s pretty budget friendly.
Jim Reich on Fri, June 24, 2005
As a 50+ dyed-in-the-wool traditional German descent, raised Baptist, fugitive Mennonite, former missionary (12 years in Caracas, Venezuela) turned Program Director in a seeker church in the heart of the conservative Mid-West - I believe I have some room to talk. And I say to Life Church, Seacoast, Saddleback, Willow Creek, our own non-mega church & others like them, “ROCK ON!”
People like Ricky, Ellen & Chris only display their ignorance (in the best sense of the word) by criticizing things that they personally know nothing about. It’s like sitting on the bench at the bus stop & taking pot shots at the bus because it’s going somewhere & they’re not!
To think that they have the corner on evangelism & Kingdom work and the right way to get it done, displays the same sort of cynicism and arrogance that would have gotten me kicked off the mission field before I even got there. Prior to going overseas, even my hyper-traditional former church required me to learn the culture, learn the language & learn to use culturally appropriate methods to reach the people we were going to minister to. Had I approached the Venezuelans with the typical “I’ll show them how it’s done right” attitude, I would have been labeled just another “Ugly American” & would have severely compromised my effectiveness in doing so. So, why are there so many “Ugly Christians” running around spouting off with the same kind of attitude about how to do ministry here?
Leoard Sweet said a while back, that like it or not, WE (Christians) are “the foreigner” in our own country. These critics have to realize our culture has changed, our language has changed & our methodology better change if we want to continue building the Kingdom in this country or anywhere else, for that matter! It’s all about “TRANSLATION” man!
That doesn’t mean compromising the message, either. I know some do, in the name of being “relevant”, but I’ve been in Warren’s church, I’ve been in Hybels’ church, I’ve read their books, and Stanley’s & McManus’ & Ed Young’s, and I know what I’ve been hearing in my own church over the last thhree years. Nowhere there will you find a compromised message. I’ve seen more people brought to tears & repentance over their sin (yes, we use the word) than in most of the traditional churches of which I’ve been a part.
One last thought. In regards to ministry, Christians of all methodological persuasions continually have to ask the question, “Is this about US - or is this about THEM?” If doing church is about us being comfortable, about our likes & dislikes & our way of doing things, as opposed to THEM - those we are trying to reach - then we are sadly mistaken and our effectiveness will be (is being) compromised.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that God can’t/won’t use more traditional churches for His glory. To say so would display the same ignorance & cynicism that the critics employ about those who use non-traditional methods. Unfortunately, for most of the naysayers, it’s more about themselves & their comfort zones - and it shows. I count myself blessed that they’re not a part of my church.
Ricky on Fri, June 24, 2005
[comment deleted by the moderator]
ellen on Fri, June 24, 2005
“Does it have to be the ‘teaching pastor’ that “shakes your hand and tell you that he’s happy you were able to be there that day”?”
I attend what could be called a “mega-church”. Every Sunday, the pastor that gave the message (we have two pastors, equal in “rank”) goes to an area called “Sunlight Cafe”, where he greets people, answers questions about the sermon, visits, etc.
So yeah - I think that the teaching pastor should be available.
Jim Reich on Fri, June 24, 2005
Ricky:
BTW - did I forget to mention that I spent the first half of my working carreer in the manufacturing, warehousing & trucking industries - as both an employee & owner? ‘Bout as pagan an environment as you can get, but you know something? The venue changed, but my “real job” remains the same - doing whatever possible, whenever possible, by all means possible so that some might be saved. Wasn’t there a guy named Paul who once said (and did) something similar? Hmmm…
Answering your question, I think the Church in America is far worse off now, than it was in the 1st century, precisely because the Church has had it’s head in sand for so long. The kool-aid you referred to is not what I’ve been drinking, it’s the “status quo” that the Church has been mired in for the last several decades. The ostrich mentality is the one that sees the declining Church & says, “I’ll keep doing the same thing I have been doing & expect a different result.” Go figure.
Society is rejecting the Church or more accurately, ignoring it, because for the most part it has nothing to say. It is the Institutional Church that has, in fact, become the “Cultural” Church that you seem to dislike so intensely & accuse others of being. Might I point out that it was guys like Luther, the Wesley boys & Menno Simons, among others, who finally pulled their heads out of the sand of the Cultural church of their day and fostered some of the greatest revival & renewal of the Church that we have seen up to this point? You see, it’s not about “doing church” per se, It’s about doing life - touching people where they’re at, speaking to people in terms they understand, giving them hope that there is something better for them if they do it God’s way & getting in the trenches with them & helping them do it. Fortunately, there are churches out there that are doing exactly that, and those are the ones that are having an impact on society.
Are they reserved only to the seeker sensitve? No. Are they reserved only to the traditional? No. Are there phonies & abuses in both camps? You bet there are! Point is, God will use whatever means He chooses to reach those he wants, irrespective of their methodology.
So quitcherbellyachin’, quit taking pot shots at those who do it differently than you, recognize that there’s room enough out there for everybody & that God is big enough to handle them all w/o our help. Then make sure you’re doing what He’s called you to do & don’t worry about the rest. That’s what I intend to do.
It’s time to go home and it’s HOT out there… so pass the kool-aid would ya? Have a great weekend!
zulu on Thu, June 30, 2005
A church built around a pastor will not last, but a church built around the church (people) will last for eternity.
Mega churches and mega churches with satalite churches only expand on the pastor center church instead of the people center church.
Like others have mentioned, what would happen if something traggic happend, the pastor dies, the video feed doesn’t work for a month. No one would attend the satalite church b/c there connection is to this absent pastor they’ve only seen on screen. There’s no connection to the body of the church unless the small groups really are as well founded as some of you describe.
Jodie on Fri, July 08, 2005
As a member of LifeChurch.tv who will be visiting Phoenix to help facilitate the first couple of “sneak peeks” all I can say is… God is present everywhere you go at Life… I’ve made some amazing friends. My marriage is stronger than ever, my kids can’t wait to attend church every week… My ‘tweenager helps as a “student intern” in the ministry department during the week. My kids are counting the days until Bible camp!!! How often can you sit in a service and hear people over and over commit their life to Christ. And missions… both in our community and outside our borders… Come by and say Hi! We’ll be in Gilbert!!! It’s an experience you will not regret…
Manning on Sun, July 05, 2009
Hi everyone. What more felicity can fall to creature, than to enjoy delight with liberty. Help me! There is an urgent need for sites: Ramesh car finance case chennai. I found only this - bmw 5 series car finance. Car finance and insurance by cheap car loan king. By seeking the services of an online car finance specialist you can be confident that a cheap car finance solution will be sought for you. Thank you very much http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/mad.gif. Manning from Tajikistan.
Page 2 of 2 pages < 1 2
Post a Comment