The $3.65 MillionParsonage: “God Has Blessed Us”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, April 02, 2007
- Viewed 88
- (35) comments so far
“I also have faith in God, but I don’t expect to live in such opulence,” said Evgenia Asimakis, a single mother of two who lives nearby and has trouble paying her property taxes.
Her neighbor, Gary Wall, is blunter: “You don’t need a multimillion-dollar place to see God. He’ll take a lot less.”
Detroit World Outreach Church isn’t apologizing. In fact, members say the mansion is proof God has blessed them.
The 4,000-member church is part of a growing movement that preaches prosperity. Also known as “health and wealth” theology, the ideology preaches that God wants followers to do well, be healthy and have rewards—such as the $50,000 Cadillac Escalade the church bought the Giberts, who have four children.
Ben Gibert said God surrounds the faithful with beautiful things.
One of the leaders of his church agrees. “God’s empowerment is to make you have an abundant life,” said Elder Marvin Wilder, a lawyer and general counsel for the church.
“In this country we value rock stars, movie stars and athletes. They can have a lavish lifestyle, and a pastor who restores lives that were broken shouldn’t? When our value system elevates a man who can put a ball in a hole and not a man who does God’s work, something is wrong.”
Born in the 1950s, prosperity theology has a strong following among some fundamentalist and nondenominational churches. It’s gained popularity among mega-church ministries of such well-known national pastors as Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes and Pat Robertson.
Even so, most Christian denominations disparage the belief as consumerism run amok, said David G. Myers, professor of psychology at Hope College in Holland who has written about the movement.
“Are people really any happier for that sort of self-indulgent spending? The answer is clearly no,” Myers said.
Wilder said the four-bedroom mansion “isn’t flamboyant” and is compensation for Ben Gibert leaving his job as a high-paying automotive executive with DaimlerChrysler’s minivan division after the sudden death in 2005 of church founder Bishop Jack Cameron Wallace.
Wallace dropped dead in Zimbabwe doing what Wilder said was the church’s work. Wallace, 47, was an accomplished weight lifter and co-founder of Prosperity Nutrition Inc., which sold performance enhancement supplements, such as creatine, online.
Wilder said Gibert saved the church whose membership, once at 10,000, had fallen by more than half. Its services still are carried on a host of television channels throughout the Midwest.
“We know that it will cost the township some tax revenue, but every church in the state gets property tax exemption,” Wilder said. “Having a parsonage is a historical precedent. Ours happens to be worth $3.6 million.”
The mansion sits on 12 acres and behind a quarter-mile-long driveway and a tall, electronically controlled gate. That’s necessary because the church has spoken out against homosexuality and Islamic violence, Wilder said. Wallace once had a live bullet delivered in the offering plate, Wilder said.
For Discussion: Is a $4 million dollar parsonage ever justified? If so, when? Do we make too big of a deal about the money? How much is too much?
A Redford Township church that believes wealth is God's reward is raising eyebrows for buying its pastor a $3.65 million mansion and taking it off the tax rolls. This month, township officials grudgingly conceded they had no choice but to remove the 11,000-square-foot home overlooking Maybury State Park from its assessment rolls, losing $40,000 annually in taxes. They concluded the plush pad is a parsonage, but that hasn't quelled debate among township officials and neighbors about whether Christian charity extends to the Detroit World Outreach Church's purchase in September of the home for Pastor Ben Gibert and his wife and co-pastor, Charisse Gibert.
Comments
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Jade on Mon, April 02, 2007
Sounds to extravagant to me but I am outsider looking in. I think though this is probably safe to say way too much for a parsonage.
Pastor Edd of BareNakedChurch.com on Mon, April 02, 2007
This is not about a rock start… or super athlete… or even a mansion. It’s about how we use the resources Christ has trusted to us. The money does not belong to a “church” or “pastor.” They are the stewards. It belongs to Jesus, How would He use it to change the world? Build His Church?
What we can learn from Pastor Ben is how to teach giving. Obviously they have a surplus of funds.
A side note. I wonder how long it will take the IRS to place caps on the so called “parsonage allowance.”
Faith, Hope and Love to you all…
Pastor Edd, the pious pastor (Ha Ha)
Stewart on Mon, April 02, 2007
To Edd’s comment about how long before the IRS gets involved… ask our own rock star author, Rick Warren. This became an issue a few years ago when he declared a huge amount of money in his salary as “housing allowance”.
Leonard on Mon, April 02, 2007
Wow, my church parsonage is only worth 2 million. I gotta get more faith.
DanielR (a different Daniel) on Tue, April 03, 2007
Stewart, are you a Pastor? If so, you should thank Pastor Warren in this instance. Rick Warren challenged the IRS interpretation of the tax code after the IRS assessed the value of his home at far less than the local tax assessor and penalized him for claiming more than the IRS valued it at.
Sounds like something that should be challenged; the tax assessor values your home at one value and you pay property tax on that amount, then the IRS values it at a lower amount and only lets you deduct based on their amount. And then the IRS penalizes you for your previous years’ deductions as well. The lawsuit took four years — and far more of Pastor Warren’s money than the $55,300 disputed in the audit.
The IRS has been eyeing the housing allowance for awhile and there are still people and organizations challenging the exemption’s constitutionality and trying to have it eliminated altogether. The deduction, usually called the parsonage exemption, is available to ministers, rabbis and other clergy members of all faiths working at houses of worship. It allows them to live in congregation-owned housing without being taxed on the imputed value of their housing, or to deduct their housing costs from their income if they pay their own housing. This exemption, provided for in the federal tax code since 1921, has enabled many small and low-income congregations to hire full-time pastors, rabbis or priests when they otherwise might be able to afford it.
Pastor Warren, who gives 90 percent of his considerable income to his church and other charities, explained in an open letter to other ministers that he decided to sue the IRS because the housing allowance was the only way small churches could pay their pastors enough to live — and he knew that those ministers could not fight the I.R.S. as he could. Warren said his wife, Kay, and he “decided to challenge the vagueness of the revenue ruling that allowed agents to arbitrarily assess the value of a parsonage without any objective standard.”
In response to the lawsuit the U.S. Senate has approved a bill designed to protect the longstanding housing tax exemption for ordained ministers and other clergy and setting an objective standard for valuation based on “fair rental value”.
Rachel on Tue, April 03, 2007
Okay I want all you who are this pastor’s brother’s and sister’s in the lord to stop judging him and think. Look at what the enemy (media) has done. We have no changed our complete focus and now discussed a situation that has nothing at all to do with us. I bet you guys didn’t know he was a executive at Chrysler and he nearly mad double what he is making now… but no the media didnt say that… Call the church and ask for the real story instead of some new story from the media.
Mike on Wed, April 04, 2007
This Ben Gilbert guy and his ilk remind me of the sea gulls in the movie, “Finding Nemo.”
“Mine! Mine! Mine!’
What does being an executive at Chrysler and/or making huge amounts of money previously have to do with anything?
Michael on Wed, April 04, 2007
The discussion and various views are interesting. The IRS thing is also interesting. I see merits to both side of the argument and I’ll just say Lord, Your will be done. I was just talking to my bishop in an online chat about the article and comments. I thought I’d share a snippit of our conversation:
Me: I wonder what the church at large or the public’s reaction would be if the pastor and his wife bought the house on their own instead of the church buying it for them? Wonder if it would have been as big a deal. Also makes me wonder what kind of place Jakes, Osteen and others mega church pastors live in. LOL
Bishop: I see. It wouldn’t have been a big deal if it did not come off of the tax roles. That just gave them a reason to talk about it. And I am sure that the others live in mansions too! But they probably bought them themselves just to escape just this kind of press. The church may have given them the money to get them, though. I guess I won’t ever have to worry about that kind of controversy…LOL :D
(I know some of these mega church pastors are making a bundle and live lavishly. Osteen doesn’t even collect a salary from the church anymore, but then again he doesn’t need to as he’s making millions on his book royalties.) I wonder what everyone’s thought would be. Would anyone’s view be different if the pastor had the finances to do so and bought the mansion himself instead of the church buying it for him?
Anyway my two cents.
HOP on Fri, April 06, 2007
Hmmmm!
Do they have a position for associate pastor?
Does it come with a parsonage??
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Rodney on Fri, April 06, 2007
The bible says you reap what you sow, those who sow sparingly shall reap sparingly, but those who sow bountifully shall reap bountifully. What are you reaping? I guarantee it is in line with your sowing. God says you can’t out give Him, give it a try. God Kingdom first. Stop looking in the next lane and run your own race.
Marty Banks on Tue, April 24, 2007
I would like to let all of you know the truth about Pastor Ben Gibert and Detroit World Outreach.
First of all DWO is a great church that has helped thousands of people in the metro Detroit area.
This past Christmas we helped many people who were in need. We bought them new stoves, washers, dryers, fixed heating in peoples houses and lots more. DWO is one of the largest food providers in the state of Michigan. By the way DWO has had the IRS in to look at our books many times and they have found nothing wrong. Pastor Ben gave up a large chunk of his salary
when the church decided to purchase the house and he has stated that he is getting ready to give up the rest of his salary. One reason that he needed to move was because people were following his children home from school and the house that they were living in had no fence and the city would not let them put one up. Pastor Ben has helped many people in need and has paid off other peoples homes. The church got the house for 1 million dollars less then the market value so in the long run the church has made a smart investment. I would prayerfully ask that in the future that you will get the full story before posting comments and remember that most news stories are coming from a secular view point. Thank You and God Bless, Pastor Marty Banks.
Mike Bolley on Wed, April 25, 2007
Pastor Marty and others:
You miss the point completely. Do “good works” somehow justify selfishness and ostentation?
And, by the way, is IRS the arbiter of good and evil? Who CARES what they found or didn’t find?
No matter how we may slice it, a mansion on earth is not a sign of humility and service to God. Those are things we are ALL called to. This is a church and a man whose priorities are obviously skewed. I don’t sit here as one who is perfect—or even approaching perfect. But, at least I have better sense than to expect God’s people to support a lavish lifestyle. Even if they don’t pay him a dime of salary, the house is lavish.
justme on Sun, June 10, 2007
It is amazing how we trust the media to give us the truth. None believers! People who do not care about the church. I believe if we are all critizing how the church spend there money, and want to put our 2cent in, then we should at least give Pastor Ben Gibert the respect and find out who he is. If we do not want to take the time out to find out who he is, then we should keep our mouth closed. Who are we to say that is enough or that is way to much. When I heard this story I was shocked, but I want to find out who he is before I make statements like “he should take that money and give it to the poor”. Our conscern should not be how they spend the money, it should be is the word of God being preached and our lives being changed. Is he following God? I am going to read about him and find out more about this church and the Giberts before I dare make statements that may not be true
gr guy on Tue, September 23, 2008
doesn’t the bible say we should not only be above evil, but also the appearance of evil? Pastors have a very difficult job and I think they should be rightly compensated, but for a church to pay for a lavish lifestyle seems to have no purpose that serves the kingdom
Michael on Tue, September 23, 2008
I think your remark is valid. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif Although, it sounds like you’re saying that having a lot of money makes one appear to be evil. Jesus said that those who gave up all to follow Him would receive a hundred fold blessing in this life w/persecution. I do agree with you that pastors living a lavish lifestyle seems to a lot of people (including me) to have no purpose that serves the kingdom, and that, that person is serving themselves. But I think most people who don’t have a lot of money and influence think that way.
I don’t know that anyone but the Lord is in the position to say what is or isn’t too much for a person. The same could be said for the president living in the white house. Even though he entertains foreign dignitaries, and has great responsibility, does he really need all that? I guess we don’t know about whom that pastor serves or entertains in his home to know if he needs all that.
I believe God blesses each of us with what he needs us to have to fulfill his purpose. A pastor living a luxurious life may be what God needs for this individual. Or maybe he is money hungry and is headed down the wrong path. Only the Lord knows. But if we lean on our own understanding, which Scripture tells us not to, then we may judge bad what God has judged to be good. God blessed both Solomon and Pharoah to be rich, but the purposes behind doing so were different for each man. But I don’t intend to judge another man’s service, I’ll just do as the Lord leads me and leave the rest to him.
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