What Youth Ministers Wish Their Senior Pastors Knew
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Fri, November 04, 2005
- Viewed 138
- (32) comments so far
After having been in youth ministry for over 10 years, I have had my share of great and not so great pastors to work with and be around. I have talked with many a youth pastor and shared over a table at Taco Bell (the ultimate YM hangout) the frustrations and laughs of pastors. Many just don?t ?get? youth ministry and end up fighting us along the way. I have my top 10 of what Every Youth Pastor Wished Their Pastor Knew About Youth Ministry:
1. YM is not Adult Ministry ? don?t expect it to act like it. YM is unpredictable as we deal with so many variables from teenagers, adults and school schedules.
2. YM is not about the numbers ? true YM is about discipling and seeing teenagers lives changed for Christ. This is something that may not be seen sometimes for years to come. It is not about ?How many we have??
3. Because we are not in the office does not mean we are ?taking time off?. We are out there in the trenches where the teenagers are.
4. YM is not the dumping ground for what the church doesn?t want to do ? Please don?t give us the chores that the adults don?t want to do around the church. If only I had a nickel for every meeting I was in that the phrase, ?that sounds like a good project for the YM?, was used.
5. We are more than ?babysitters? in the church ? we are ministers called and equipped to lead.
6. Include us in the Ministry of the Church ? Communication is key to unity. Information reduces anxiety. Keeping each other informed out our ministries only helps us.
7. Please allow us to fail ? let us try new ministry approaches. Remember what is now ?tradition? was once ?new and cutting edge?. Also, when we fail, love us back to where we were. Don?t belittle us in front of church or it?s members. Praise us publicly for taking risks in the name of Christ.
8. Mentor us ? Make sure we are getting fed. Let us go to conferences, pray with us, hold us accountable, challenge us and teach us from your wisdom.
9. Be teachable ? Please be teachable yourself. Don?t assume that you know more than us. We just might have something intelligent to add
10. We also need a sabbatical. YM is a tiring and rewarding ministry. But we also need our time to be refreshed, renewed and time to be with our family.
That is my top ten list. Have I missed something? Let me know.
What do you wish your Pastor knew or understood about youth ministry?
A while back, there was quite a storm about the post about "Six Things Worship Pastors Would like to Tell their Senior Pastors"… now "Pastor J" has a sequel for Youth Pastors… see what you think… (props to Rachel for this link)...Pastor J writes…
Comments
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LarryF on Mon, November 07, 2005
Here’s another one. YM is not in the Bible. The concept of adosescence as a separate phase of life between childhood and adulthood did not show up in our culture until the early 20th century and came from secular psychology not scripture. The Bible speaks of two types of people from an age perspective, children and adults. Once we’re no longer children we’re adults and should be ministered to and discipled as such. (I Corinthians 13:11 among others)
Jade on Tue, November 08, 2005
Pjlr,
I can promise you I would never serve alongside you. Not trying to be harsh but just from you wording I can tell you are Dictator pastor.
“You don ‘t have the privilege to just pursue what you think God would have you to do.” Are you serious????????? Reread what you wrote and tell me this is not unbiblical
“Senior Pastors, other staff members and Elders were there and they added to their staff someone they thought would be able to help them accomplish their mission.”
Ok it is not their mission it is God’s mission. Again I would not serve with you and I would discourage anyone serving with you until you let God change your attitude. “you don’t have the privledge.” Where do you get off!??!?!?!?!?!
pjlr on Tue, November 08, 2005
Jade, don’t worry, I won’t ask you:)
It’s interesting that you have me all figured out and yet you don’t know me other than a few words that I have typed.
Read the phrase again: ““You don ‘t have the privilege to just pursue what you think God would have you to do.”
The critical part of that is the word “think” Confirmation of God’s call doesn’t come in a vacuum but rarely. It is confirmed in the midst of the brethren, and mature brethren are more likely to get it right.
Youth pastors as a general rule are inexperienced in ministry. They need the gentle guiding hand of senior brothers and sisters to help them discern the voice of the Lord.
Anybody and everybody has the right to do whatever they think the Lord wants them to do, but what do you do when what you think God wants you to do conflicts with the leadership of your church? Look at the logical implications of such a statement and you’ll see what I mean.
Associates are called to assist a church in fulfillilng the vision that church has articulated through much prayer, fasting and discertning the voice of the Lord. To come into that situation and suggest that you want to go in another direction is not healthy for the church or the youth pastor.
Quit jumping to conclusions and think the issue through. It’s not about being a dictator, it’s about leading and protecting the sheep of His flock. You can’t have 2 or 3 steering wheels on the church bus.
I have had the privilege of having 11 staff members work with me over the years. Not a one of them would say that I am a dictator as they all enjoyed working with me. If you every decide to visit our church, try discouraging any one of them from working with me, they’d think your were joking.
If all I had to judge you with was the few words you wrote in your comment, I could come to some conclusions about you that wouldn’t be flattering. I’ll take a pass. You are probably a good enough person who misunderstood what I had to say.
Peace
Jade on Tue, November 08, 2005
Pjlr,
“Associates are called to assist a church in fulfillilng the vision that church has articulated through much prayer, fasting and discertning the voice of the Lord”
The associates are there to help cast the vision. Of course the pastor is the leader, but the associates input should be valuable and help with the vision casting.
It is a partnership.
“Youth pastors as a general rule are inexperienced in ministry. They need the gentle guiding hand of senior brothers and sisters to help them discern the voice of the Lord.” Again are you serious? You honestly think your associates need your help to discern the will of the Lord. They need you to help mentor them, yes, discern no. That is something God will teach them.
Again i can tell you are a little bit of a micro manager. Sorry if dictator was too strong of a word. I was not trying to imply you are bad senior pastor. I just would not want to work under you. We Y.P. are REAL ministers too. We don’t need to grow up someday to be Senior Pastors, nor is the SP job any more important than ours. One can’t function with out the other. It is a team effort.
To me your statements says: “A YP needs to do what his told, because his thoughts about the direction the church is going is not important. And because of his lack of experience I need to watch carefully or he could wreck my church.” Did I get it wrong. Then tell me so. Share your heart with me. As for your current staff. Ask them if I am wrong or how they fell about your statements. See what they say. Of course if I am right about you, and I think I am, they will be afraid to answer honestly.
Doug on Tue, November 08, 2005
I have 3 yrs. in YM. Altho, I always use some sort of lesson materials, my wife is incredably effective with out a lesson from a book. Yet we had those who frownd on that. She was/is first and formost a friend to the young people. She has in her mind what she is going to do and always knows where it comes from in the bible. The young people love her for that. I wish Pastors knew that even just spending time with young people and becoming someone they can talk to is THEE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT YOUTH MINISTRY!!!!!
pjlr on Tue, November 08, 2005
Jade, I took your advice, I assembled my staff together (3 other pastors, 1 secretary, and 2 maintenance personnel)to get their reponse. I gave them two simple rule to follow.
1. Read the post carefully and each comment carefully.
2. Tell me what you think, and don’t hold back anything.
Their responses:
One laughed so hard I thought I was going to have to give him oxygen.
Another laughed but gained her composure.
Another was incredulous
Another was upset that someone would “diss” her pastor and friend.
Another stated that you weren’t even close.
And another said, don’t worry pastor if we ever had someone like that on our staff we would recognize it as a mistake and help you reassign him./her.
I then asked them what they thought your response would be to our findings based on the limited information you have provided in your comments.
One said it would only confirm in your mind that I am a dictator who has managed to brainwash the staff.
Another said you would become defensive.
A third said you’d be indifferent to anything other than what you have already postulated
Another said, I hope he apologizes, but I doubt he will.
Now I have a simple challenge for you. Show your senior pastor the post and the responses and ask him if you are correct in your conclusions.
Based on what you have posted and only on that basis, I can only assume 3 things. 1. You have failed to understand my simple assertions. 2. You are incredibly immature in your thinking. 3. You are filtering your answers from a previous bad experience.
I doubt that I can say any of the above with any kind of certainty as I don’t know you. See what happens when you jump to conclusions without facts.
Now the good news. You won’t ever have to worry about working for me http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif I like team players, not individuals who are pursuing their own “vision.”
Bernie Dehler on Tue, November 08, 2005
Jade said to PJLR:
“ As for your current staff. Ask them if I am wrong or how they feel about your statements.”
Jade,
Likely whatever PJLR asks his staff about himself will be what he wants to hear.. or they may be out of a job. I’m sure he knows who his detractors are… and everyone who’s doing something serious has detractors, right? One could probably learn more about their problems from critics rather than friends.
pjlr on Wed, November 09, 2005
Bernie, with all due respect, you are wrong as usual. Your comments hardly ever have anything that is close to a silver lining. You have a bad case of negativitis.
You have no idea of my staff relations. And I feel confident, based on your negative comments on just about anything posted on this blog, that no matter how good my relationships with my staff are, you’d find some mosquito poop to concentrate on.
BTW, since you’re going to get the last word in, go ahead and say what you are going to say. Make it good and long because I won’t be addressing it.
Jade on Wed, November 09, 2005
Pjlr,
My response hmm. Well first of all you don’t have to answer to me. If you and your staff get along fine than good for you all keep up the good work. If I miss understood you I am sorry.
As for taking the comments to my pastor I shall and you will here the response.
I am credibly immature. Hmm. Kind of below the belt don’t you think. I have served with 4 senior pastor so far. Each I have got along with very good. Mostly because we work as a team. Now I have not be in ministry as long as you or maybe most here. I started preaching in 1997 you do the math. However the immature comment was a little hard. I already apologized for my dictator comment. If you don’t agree with me fine, I can see we both are pretty locked in our position. Your comments back to me, could be read as what….....
pjlr on Wed, November 09, 2005
Jade: I didn’t say you were immature. My disclaimer was:
“Based on what you have posted and only on that basis, I can only assume 3 things. 1. You have failed to understand my simple assertions. 2. You are incredibly immature in your thinking. 3. You are filtering your answers from a previous bad experience.
I doubt that I can say any of the above with any kind of certainty as I don’t know you. See what happens when you jump to conclusions without facts?”
My sincerest apologies if I hit below the belt. I was only making the point that I felt you read a lot into my statements that wasn’t there. I countered (and not maliciously) with reading a lot into your statement that probably wasn’t there to make a point.
I prefer to think that you just misunderstood my original comments about leadership, vision and how a team members feeds into, that vision and leadership.
I will assume that you will forgive me, after all the Bible says to http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif I hope you understood that I wasn’t attacking you personally.
Later friend. No blood, no foul.
Jade on Wed, November 09, 2005
Pjlr,
Ok I printed off your original statements and my Senior Pastor read them. He said it was not what you said but how you said it that made you seem like a micro manager.
He also had this to add on the subject:
The S.P. does not cast the vision for the youth group in the church. The y.p. does, but it must fall within the church’s vision. Which He said the Y.P. has a hand in making. In his mind and mine, the staff which includes me sets the vision of the church. The board then checks the vision and speaks the will of the people in the church.
I asked him about the freedom to disagree as well. He said we can disagree, but if there is a stand off, obvioulsy we will go his route. (Unless his route is immoral).
As for the comments we both have been making, I would say they were not immature, but unimformed. Do you agree?
We both assumed things. I am sorry I started the assuming however, but that was why I asked you to share your heart. Oh well. I accept your apology, I hope you accept my own.
In Christ
pjlr on Wed, November 09, 2005
Jade, Sounds like you have a great Pastor to work with and for.
I don’t do a lot of blogging. I only occasionally post a comment. It is difficult to communicate when you don’t hear a persons inflection of their voice, facial expressions and other body language.
I have a feeling we’ll both embrace in the kingdom. Rescue the perishing brother, that is what we’re both trying to do.
Peace
RevSteven on Mon, November 28, 2005
Dear Jade and PJLR,
Who is more important to the kingdom, Paul or Apollos? The one who plants or the one who waters?
God is the one who makes things grow and work for HIS purpose.
I think your blogs back and forth to each other proved the message of the original article….ministers on the same staff don’t understand or appreciate each other when one thinks “their” ministry is more important or “called” or “ordained” than the other’s ministry.
God has called and equipped you both. Quit belittling each other. Its childish.The “senior” pastor, who’s title is found NOWHERE in scripture, is no more called or ordained than the associate or youth pastor, who’s “title” is also found NOWHERE in scripture.
Paul settled this question a long time ago.
Neither of you are “more” called by God to be “calling” the shots. Its HIS job alone. We are HIS “servants”, not dictators, manipulators or powerbrokers.
Greg Weaver on Mon, November 28, 2005
I agree. I have had only one really bad experience with the pastors I have worked for. I would like to add a few to your top ten:
1. Communicate, communicate and communicate! Communication is key in any working relationship. Jesus communicated with His disciples, do the same with YM. It doesn’t even have to be about ministry, talk to me about the game…..Just talk to us, Man!
2. Practice Agreeing to Disagree! I will fall under a pastor’s authority and be a team player, but allow me to speak freely. You never know, the Lord may give us some better ways of doing things from time to time. It doesn’t mean we don’t respect you or your position.
Jennifer on Tue, December 06, 2005
Just curious about the guy that said youth pastors are immmature…
Do you really consider a youth pastor to be immature simply because they are the “youth” pastor? WOW. That’s all I have to say. WOW. For all you know, some of these guys/ladies may have once worked in the senior pastor/wife role, and felt God calling them out of that to minister to teens.
As the wife of a youth pastor who manages about a hundred teens every week, I am offended that you have such a view of those who work with the next generation. My husband and I deal with ministry pressures also, just of a different kind than a senior pastor. Thankfully, we have worked under two pastors in my husband’s 6.5 years in youth ministry who supported him, gave him the freedom to pursue new things that he felt God calling him to do ministry wise, and allowed him to think outside the box, and even preach during the regular Sunday service.
I am not basing my opinion of you on that one statement, but because I am married to a yp, and many of my husband’s friends are also yp’s, that statement hurts, and has no merit.
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