Am I the Biggest Sucker in the World?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, August 09, 2005
- Viewed 319
- (100) comments so far
Dear Todd,
I am at a church that we love. I am non-paid staff. We have been here for 5 yrs, with the elusive promise of pay. I am ready to graduate in 6 mths with a concentration in my ministry. I have worked for free, and accumulated $$$ in tuition debt. The church has not paid for any of my schooling. I have been receiving offers, but my church has asked me not to take them, that the time will come when they will "fairly" compensate me.
Am I the sucker of all time??? Am I being taken advantage of?
Well... what do you think? I told this person that I'd post his/her email on the blog and see what kind of comments we get. What do you think... are they a sucker or should they stick in there and see what happens? Has a similar situation ever happened to you? How did you handle it? Take a few moments and add to the response!
I get many emails each week from people with questions about church staff and personnel issues. Here is one that has to do with pay… an believe it or not, it is not an uncommon scenario. Read this short note, and take a few minutes to give your feedback below…
Comments
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Greg Johnson on Tue, August 09, 2005
I would say that you are a sucker. You are just new to ministry and church staff (stuff, politics, abuse, etc). You are not actually on ‘staff’ until you are paid. Until then you are a volunteer layperson. Which by the way has more freedom of ministry than a staff member. Remeber, all staff members are in some way, great or small, in fear of the lay member(s) to whom they answer.
Also, think about this if you are working for free and they don’t feel obligated to even ‘tip’ you each month, then what are they going to use for criteria for offering you a ‘fair wage?’
Remember, scripture says that a workman is worthy of his hire. Has the church deemed you a worthy workman so far? What would it take to be thought as such?
Usaully a church loves free work. You’ve been giving it. Why buy the cow when the milk is free. I know, this usually refers to something else, but this does apply to this situation too.
They either need to make a counter offer or throw you a good-bye party. Believe me on this. Future churches will not look at your free ministry time as equal to paid staff time. In other words, your ministry experience will be less qualify as time goes by.
After 20 yrs of youth ministry I can promise you that if you love working for free then you’ll love working for a salary too. Best to ya.
Robert on Tue, August 09, 2005
I would verify what the Senior Minister’s expected timeline is for compensating you. If his/her timeline does not jell with your own financial timeline and needs, I would graciously and lovingly bail.
Mike Porter on Tue, August 09, 2005
I couldn’t agree more with the above comments.
I was in a similar situation with technical ministries in a church, constantly being told “we don’t have room in the budget right now, but as soon as we do, we’ll start compensating you for all the hard work you do” Problem was, as soon as there was money, there were “other priorities”
When I finally did leave, I don’t think there was anyone more surprised that I was actually leaving that the person who had been feeding me that line. Sadly, while I don’t know how I was viewed, relative to Thomas’ comment, I know that *I* lost any respect I had for the individual who kept telling me those things.
My advice, if you truly care about your church (and it sounds like you do, or you wouldn’t have put up with this for 5 years http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif ) would be to approach the leadership and say something along the lines of “I know that you don’t want me entertaining these other offers, but I am in the position where I need to be fairly compensated now (or at least have something in writing for compensation at a specific future date rather than “someday”) or I will have to look at these other offers, for my own/my families financial and spiritual health”
Especially if these other offers are unsolicited, maybe God is trying to tell you something?
-mike
Chad Miller on Tue, August 09, 2005
Todd,
I have had this conversation with a lot of my friends who have traveling ministries, many of them struggle with asking for a nominal amount, yet get disappointed when they travel hundreds of miles and receive 50 dollars. The point comes down to you must do what God has called you to do, and most importantly as much as possible. Not to be tough on churches, but I have been promised so much, full time, a raise from part time, it comes to a point working part time or volunteer when you have to realize the church is a voluntary organization and they have to take a leap of faith to hire you, but the principal of “Why pay for the cow, when you can get the milk for free . . .” does exist. You may get an offer from another church and they might try to counter. I would tell them you are looking and want to know if you should consider them as an option? Will pray for you as I know it is a tough one!
George on Tue, August 09, 2005
I served with a church for 4 years unpaid (while studying at Bible seminary) - but I took this on knowning I would be unpaid. But, when I left this church after my studies were completed they gave me a small gift. I was a bit disappointed after all I have given, but then I realized how much I’d gained in exerience also - and it was all worthwhile. But, your situation is a little different and I think your time has come to move on and thank God for this experience and all you’ve learned. They have not honoured their promise and so you should feel no guilt about moving on.
Brian on Tue, August 09, 2005
You don’t mention if you have a family. If you do, you have a responsibility to provide for them, even if it means being bi-vocational (as I am!). And they have the responsibility of paying you as much as they can afford (within reason, of course).
Are you a sucker? I don’t think so - you are ministering out of love for God and for them. However, they are abusing that love.
I think it’s time to say, “Pay up or shut up.” And then if they don’t pay you WELL, then I would think it’s time to move on.
Five years is way to long to hang on to such a promise.
Alison on Tue, August 09, 2005
Dear person,
You are not the biggest sucker in the world. However, your church is dealing with you in an abusive way. (I know it sounds extreme to use the word ‘abusive’ but what else does one call work that goes unpaid, in a situation where the worker is encouraged to invest with the promise of pay, but payment never comes…?) It happened to me— the same way, while I was in school, in a church I loved. Promises never led to support and sustenance.
I am now a missionary and have to raise my own salary—but at least that’s part of the up-front agreement, and I do receive an adequate, if not ample, paycheck. Missionary life must be a choice, not an imposition.
It seems to me that the scripture addresses this when Paul writes to the Corinthians. Paul happened to have other means of support from churches that were more generous, but he still rebuked the Corinthians:
“Don’t we have the right to food and drink?...Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk?...’Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain’ [because it should be allowed to eat while working]...Don’t you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple…?...In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.” (1 Cor. 9)
I believe you need to reevaluate your ministry situation and ask for a change. The church needs to take responsibility for its decisions: Of course, it might be painful—but on the other hand, it’s not helping the church to get away with taking advantage of you, either.
It’s in the church’s best interest to be disciplined about this and to pay you. How will it help your ministry with them to have you remain in debt and unable to live? Malachi and Nehemiah, among others, encountered problems when the priests went out moonlighting and buying land and quit paying attention to proper sacrifices and good pastoral leadership.
Your church needs to get with it and provide appropriately. I sure hope they move wisely. If not, I hope you move…wisely.
Doug Wedan on Tue, August 09, 2005
Sounds like you have been taken advantage of, but you stuck it out and labored with love. They did not care to assit you. You haven’t been a “sucker” yet, but you may become one if you stay. May God open doors for you and bless you beyond measure!
Wayne on Tue, August 09, 2005
You didn’t make any mention of your calling. Do you feel that you are being called by God to leave the church? This really isn’t a matter of the church wanting you to stay. The real matter here is what the Holy Spirit is saying to your heart. If you are truly being called to another church by God, ask yourself, will you continue to stay and listen to the promises of man or will you walk in obedience to God’s call on your life. Regardless, Ministry is a calling, not a job.
Brian on Tue, August 09, 2005
Yes, you are a sucker. Sorry to say so ... you seem like a good guy. And whether or not it has been intentional, your church has taken advantage of you.
I think you need to get out of there because I just can’t imagine that an irrepairable pattern of disrespect and distrust has been established. Even if the church were to start paying you a fair wage (and in this case fair = what you’re worth now plus a big “thank you” premium) tomorrow, you’d be crazy if you didn’t always have in the back of your mind that your church thinks nothing of acting less than honorably when it comes to your livelihood.
I know that it’s easy to feel like you are focusing on the money and talk yourself into backing off. Ministry is tough and it requires support and healthy relationships. Once again, I can’t imagine that this is the case for you anymore.
Harry Stoorza on Tue, August 09, 2005
You have given them five years of your life. That is quite a tenure today. Dangling the hope of money is borderline abuse and you should kick the sand off your sandals and move on. Thank God for the experience they have given you. Tell them good bye and that you love them, pack and go! You have been prepared for a great minitry.
Valenta on Tue, August 09, 2005
No, you are not the sucker of all time. There are many others who have made the same mistake of not setting specific timeframes and deadlines for receiving appropriate compensation. We tend to “blur or spiritualize” those ministry-related areas of our lives that should simply be handled as business (i.e., get it in writing). I cannot say whether 5 months or 5 years is too much time, that depends on your goals and most especially, on God’s calling in your life. I can say however, that it is time to consider your options and make an informed decision. You can always give your current church the option to match or exceed your offer(s).
rico on Tue, August 09, 2005
yes…he’s a sucker. I guess. I mean…he’s only a sucker from this point on…because he’s been ok with it during the school years, it seems. From here on, if he listens to that “don’t take other offers” stuff…well…you know the rest.
Pay seems to be a sensitive issue, but the worker deserves the wages…especially if he works hard at dispensing the word of God well to God’s people.
Sean on Tue, August 09, 2005
Sounds like it’s time to move on. Regardless of whether or not they will compensate you in the future, they have failed to take care of you in the present. It seems very controlling and manipulative to ask that you not consider other offers. I would say it’s time to get out there and look for a church that will not only let you minister, but will minister to you as well. And helping you meet the basic needs of yourself and your family (or future family) by providing a steady income is part of that ministry.
Cal H on Tue, August 09, 2005
You should listen to the Lord, but I believe that accepting another offer is what is best. We forget that Christians still have the flesh pulling at them and that includes church leaders who want to get something for nothing or next to nothing. When I came as senior minister to my current church, I found that staff who had been here 10-15+ years were still being paid less than I paid my youth ministers fresh out of Bible college at my former church . (The former senior minister had allowed the elders to balance the budget on the backs of the staff and THEY greatly resented it, but they had a strong commitment to this body). And it would have continued unless I had gone to our elders & gently, but firmly reminded them of their responsibility. You seem to have already given solid ministry this church. (If not they would be willing to see you go). You MIGHT set a deadline and say, “If I am not being (what I consider) fairly compensated by x-date, I will actively begin a search for the next place God would have me serve. (And let them know that!) What they are doing is irresponsible because if/when they lose you they will lose history, connenction, relationship, etc.
All the best
A Senior Minister in Oregon
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