Am I the Biggest Sucker in the World?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, August 09, 2005
- Viewed 317
- (100) comments so far
Dear Todd,
I am at a church that we love. I am non-paid staff. We have been here for 5 yrs, with the elusive promise of pay. I am ready to graduate in 6 mths with a concentration in my ministry. I have worked for free, and accumulated $$$ in tuition debt. The church has not paid for any of my schooling. I have been receiving offers, but my church has asked me not to take them, that the time will come when they will "fairly" compensate me.
Am I the sucker of all time??? Am I being taken advantage of?
Well... what do you think? I told this person that I'd post his/her email on the blog and see what kind of comments we get. What do you think... are they a sucker or should they stick in there and see what happens? Has a similar situation ever happened to you? How did you handle it? Take a few moments and add to the response!
I get many emails each week from people with questions about church staff and personnel issues. Here is one that has to do with pay… an believe it or not, it is not an uncommon scenario. Read this short note, and take a few minutes to give your feedback below…
Comments
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Michael Stevens on Tue, August 09, 2005
I agree that it is probably time to move on. My first ministry position as part time youth pastor I held for 4 years with the hope that it would turn into a full-time position. I went 4 years without a raise too. I have sense moved on and God is doing incredible things here. Pray about it, but I believe that you have family needs financially and even if the church means well, they need to make it happen or it will never happen.
Jan on Tue, August 09, 2005
Have you asked the church to make a contribution to your schooling? Sometimes they have a benevolence line in their budget.
Seems like most churches are hard up for workers and have no money to hire people. If you are a sucker, would you say you’re a sucker for God?
I’ve seen volunteers that give it up for the church and leave offended because they didn’t get the respect they desire. I think if you are volunteering it should be because that’s where God wants you for whatever reason, not because you expect to receive anything from people.
As for finding a job, I’m surprised no one has said to look for God’s will. If God wants you to work in that church, it will open up but I would seek his face. It’s your future you’re talking about, not really about the church you are volunteering at. It’s a big old world out there and He’s got a plan for you. Don’t ask me, Ask HIM! Take it as a compliment that they would love to have you on their staff but don’t base your decisions on what they think or what they would like.
Frank on Tue, August 09, 2005
If your heart is to be in full-time ministry and you need to be paid then follow God’s arrow. Just don’t leave until you are anointed vs. being annoyed. We have to love our God, our family, our church and our way of life. I suggest you pray over any and all offers but wisdom of what God wants is the most important. Our purpose in life may be in full-time paid ministry or bi-vocational ministry…..Trust me it is wiser to be happy than rich…ON the other hand you need to live and money is needed..so you are a sucker if you leave without the anointment of Christ….Pray brother pray.
James on Tue, August 09, 2005
The church has clearly demonstrated that they will not take care of you. I made a similar mistake, working for very little and accumulating debt which I am still under. They may really mean well, but it is absolutely wrong for them to do this to you. I would get out of there and find a church that will treat you fairly.
This time while you are in school has given you valueable experience. I would honor the church for allowing you the opportunities it has. But don’t waste the 5 years of experience by not learning from what you have observed. This is not about your “right” to be paid a lot of money. This is about a church that does not respect and offer you fair compensation for what you are doing. Leaving when your schooling is done will be a much smoother transition point than being stuck there for a year with little or no income.
By all means pursue the other offers and seek God’s will for where you would go next. If the church is sincere in its offer, then they should be able to give you specifics of what they will do. This should not be a “bidding war” where you play one offer against another, but if your church cannot give you specifics, then they are not ready to treat you with the respect you deserve.
James
Jan on Tue, August 09, 2005
Have you asked the church to make a contribution to your schooling? Sometimes they have a benevolence line in their budget.
Seems like most churches are hard up for workers and have no money to hire people. If you are a sucker, would you say you’re a sucker for God?
I’ve seen volunteers that give it up for the church and leave offended because they didn’t get the respect they desire. I think if you are volunteering it should be because that’s where God wants you for whatever reason, not because you expect to receive anything from people.
As for finding a job, I’m surprised no one has said to look for God’s will. If God wants you to work in that church, it will open up but I would seek his face. It’s your future you’re talking about, not really about the church you are volunteering at. It’s a big old world out there and He’s got a plan for you. Don’t ask me, Ask HIM! Take it as a compliment that they would love to have you on their staff but don’t base your decisions on what they think or what they would like.
bernie dehler on Tue, August 09, 2005
The church sounds typical of many. They want to ‘control’ the church member’s giving. Why not let other church members support you financially? Because it may drain funds that would otherwise go to the church. The church Pastor is taking care of #1, himself and the churches needs/bills first. The church Pastor wants to manage you like any other bill… pay it when he has to… amongst the other priorities…
I’ve heard some denominations give almost free training, like Southern Baptists, if you live near one of their Seminaries…
BTW, I don’t attend one of the three local seminaries near me; too expensive (all are the same price). I like http://www.lrs.edu (experts in “Distant Education”); almost 1/2 price, and they have decent accreditation.
...Bernie
http://www.freegoodnews.com
wayne on Tue, August 09, 2005
I have found that good paper makes for good relationships. in other words allways get it in writing especially when you are dealing with churches. you can have a lawyer draw up a contract that includes growth markers like, when the church reports 100 in attendance then we will pay you this much. when it hits two hundred then this much. you might want to use short time lines like, in 6 months we will do this or that. trust me even if the pastor is one of your best friends they will squeeze every thing out of you that you will let them. it is sad to say but i have been in full time ministy for over 15 years and it only stopped when i stopped it. my lawyers have really helped me to come to terms with these kinds of situations. your ideals of the church being concerend about your future must change.
Jerry N on Tue, August 09, 2005
One has to be realistic in a situation like this. While I am sure that the Pastor and staff want this individual to stay as they view highly the skills and talents they provide. However, budgets are budgets and church finances are difficult at best. Therefore, you must leave, pursue your God given talents and give your efforts 100% wherever you go! If God has it planned for you to stay there, He will open the doors. Perhaps, God wants you to touch others and then return someday?
Either way, God will not punish you if you choose to leave. Actually, Satan may try to stop you from leaving as he doesn’t want you to grow. I say leave, if God is giving you peace and allow yourself to be led back if the church can pay you later.
God Bless,
Jerry N.
Austin,TX.
W. Edwards on Tue, August 09, 2005
When dealing with Russia, Former President Ronald Regan said, “Trust, but verify!” When dealing with churches, I say, “Trust the Word of the Lord, but get everything else in writing!” WJE
Daniel on Tue, August 09, 2005
Todd,
The greater question is does God want you to stay? If they are not compensating you and can, that obviously is wrong. But, if they honestly can’t, then God might be leading you to bi-vocational ministry. Are they taking advantage of you, or do you just feel that way? Only you can answer that question. May God bless you and provide for all your needs. Prov. 3:5-6.
Hang in there,
Daniel
Bart Breen on Tue, August 09, 2005
Wow! what a hot button.
Paul says in Scripture that the worker is worthy of his hire.
Unfortunately Churches are often run less effectively and less fairly than secular companies. Practices that would not and could not exist in the marketplace exist in Churches because those Churches hide behind the Separation of Church and State.
Having worked with Churches for 20 years, here’s what I wished I knew at the beginning that I know now.
1. The most important thing is call. If God has called you, then you follow and allow Him to work things out. But it is your responsibility to know if you are indeed being called and it is not always easy to know. Pray.
2. A call is a 2 way street. God calls you but he also calls the Church to do their part. If the Church will not respond to God’s call to provide for yours and your families needs then that is grounds for a release from my call in my opinion. It is your responsibility to define a boundry and see that you keep your part and do not allow a Church to defy their need for faith, sacrifice and commitment to their Christian Worker. That is just as important as your responsibility.
Church leaders who heap guilt on a Christian Worker for not sticking to a position when they themselves refuse to make a commitment with dollars and time limits attached are hypocrites. Do not enable them. Be gracious, be merciful, be understanding but the care of your family is entrusted to you and if others will not meet their responsibilities then that releases you from that call.
If you know that there is no money and no commitment to begin to pay you and you continue in that position, then reconcile yourself that you are a tentmaker and trusting God. If He’s called you he’ll provide. You’re the one responsible to make that determination, however, not the Church. They are responsible to care for you as a Christian Worker.
I’d walk away sooner rather than later if I were in that situation.
Darren Melugin on Tue, August 09, 2005
Yes you are the sucker. It has been long enough to show that you are not in ministry for the money. You have been giving of your time to help and minister. After 5 years if the church has not seen an increase of giving or attendance there are some situations to talk about.
I say it is time to move on if you know for sure that you have been called into the ministry as a career.
Bart Breen on Tue, August 09, 2005
Wow! what a hot button.
Paul says in Scripture that the worker is worthy of his hire.
Unfortunately Churches are often run less effectively and less fairly than secular companies. Practices that would not and could not exist in the marketplace exist in Churches because those Churches hide behind the Separation of Church and State.
Having worked with Churches for 20 years, here’s what I wished I knew at the beginning that I know now.
1. The most important thing is call. If God has called you, then you follow and allow Him to work things out. But it is your responsibility to know if you are indeed being called and it is not always easy to know. Pray.
2. A call is a 2 way street. God calls you but he also calls the Church to do their part. If the Church will not respond to God’s call to provide for yours and your families needs then that is grounds for a release from my call in my opinion. It is your responsibility to define a boundry and see that you keep your part and do not allow a Church to defy their need for faith, sacrifice and commitment to their Christian Worker. That is just as important as your responsibility.
Church leaders who heap guilt on a Christian Worker for not sticking to a position when they themselves refuse to make a commitment with dollars and time limits attached are hypocrites. Do not enable them. Be gracious, be merciful, be understanding but the care of your family is entrusted to you and if others will not meet their responsibilities then that releases you from that call.
If you know that there is no money and no commitment to begin to pay you and you continue in that position, then reconcile yourself that you are a tentmaker and trusting God. If He’s called you he’ll provide. You’re the one responsible to make that determination, however, not the Church. They are responsible to care for you as a Christian Worker.
I’d walk away sooner rather than later if I were in that situation.
Dave on Tue, August 09, 2005
I don’t think you are a sucker, but you might be on the verge of becoming one. The “compensation” for your last 5 years of volunteerism can be found in the experience you have gained by doing ministry while a student - this will serve your resume well and put you ahead of other graduating job-seekers.
To continue in your setting after graduation (when others are willing to pay for your ministry skills) would be ill advised for 3 reasons.
1. “a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.” This attitude of always waiting for something better just beyond the horizon can lead to discontentment that will hamper ministry.
2. 1 Tim 5:8 teaches that you have a responsibility to provide for your family. If God is providing a way to do that while serving Him (a laborer is worthy of wages), you would be doubly blessed.
3. A church that asks you to ignore the needs of your family so that you can serve the church is setting a bad precedent! This won’t be the last time you are tempted to prioritize “ministry” over family.
Billy Bob Cox on Tue, August 09, 2005
I have served several congregations over the past 30 years at little or no compensation. I have done so by choice; God has blessed me with a good job and adequate salary to provide for my needs and be able to help young or small and struggling churches. However, I have come to the conclusion by not allowing them to provide financial remuneration I have done them a diservice. They have at times become dependent; at others they have become almost resentful and when they reached the point they could and should have been paying a minister they were unwilling.
I do not think you are a sucker. I think you are a good and caring man of God who wants to help and has invested a great deal of your time and energy into a body of believers that you want to see succeed. However, you need to ask yourself, “am I really helping them or am I crippling them by not requiring them to stretch their faith.” Only the Holy Spirit can answer that for you. But it is important you lay the issue before him.
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