Charles Barkley: I’m Getting Real Tired of “Fake Christians”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Wed, March 12, 2008
- Viewed 182
- (56) comments so far
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FOR YOUR INPUT: So… what do you think? How do you get around Barkley’s view that Chrisitans
Former NBA basketball player Charles Barkley has an opinon about everything (don't we all)... AND he has political aspirations. But he, for some reason sees Republicans as 'fake Christians'; and really takes a slap at Christians, who he said are the most judgemental people in the world. Watch part of this interview, then let's discuss what we can do when leveled with a charge like Charles'...
Comments
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Kevin on Wed, March 19, 2008
And you continually refer to the judgement seat of Christ… where we will be judged on what? Faithfulness. Faithfulness to keep Christ’s bride pure and free from sin. Faithfulness to be a light in a dark world. What does light expose? Sin. Thus our lives lived each day is a form of God’s judgment on a flawed world.
I shudder to think how a man could respond to Christ on the judgment day when asked, “What did you do to promote justice and my agenda on earth?” if he does not differentiate between sin and righteousness.
deaubry on Wed, March 19, 2008
when we are at the judgement seat of christ, and jesus ask how i plead i will say i plead the blood of jesus.i think we all should pray for charles, he is not so tough, there has been people more tougher than him fall to their knees in repentance. i know he believes in same sex marrage , but when the lord takes hold of him chanches are he will forget about all that and then some,
Mark on Thu, March 20, 2008
Kevin wrote:
“How would you argue your way out of 1 Timothy 1:18-20?”
Kevin, by not skipping over 1 Timothy 15 in a desperate attempt to find a justification in the Bible for self appointed judgementalism?
1 Timothy 15 says:
“Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.”
Kevin, why are you in such a hurry to ignore this passage from the Bible?
You should carefully examine yourself and your motives for the true answer.
Kevin on Thu, March 20, 2008
Mark,
Just this morning I prayed that prayer. Acknowledging that I feel just like Paul; that I am the worst of sinners. My sin grieves me greatly, because it grieves a holy God.
THAT is why Paul (and definitely all who are called to be shepherds in the local church) must refuse to allow sin to go on in the local church without calling it out and leading people back into fellowship with Christ.
HOWEVER, I agree with you that preaching a simple morality message to the unsaved is a ridiculous notion. Why in the world would I ask an unbeliever to submit to the morality of God when they don’t even KNOW God? Acts 8:35 shows us Philip’s example to us all of how we should address an unbelieving world; “Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this scripture he preached JESUS to him.” What a lost soul needs is not morality, per se, but JESUS to give him LIFE and life to the FULL! Can we all agree with that?
Your carte blanche statements, however, lead me to believe that you don’t recognize the God-given responsibility of calling out sin in another brother’s life. James 5:19-20 says, “My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” PRAISE GOD! If believer’s see themselves as Christ’s ambassadors and fulfull His work on earth, we can see fruit in the lives of others. That is an amazing miracle of God.
I pray that we are not as far apart as we both originally thought with this clarification of the difference between preaching morality to the unsaved and calling out sin in the local church so as to restore an errant brother.
I love you and hope that I have not offended you by any argumentative tone or offensive words. If I have, please forgive me.
His,
Kevin
Mark on Fri, March 21, 2008
Kevin wrote:
“THAT is why Paul (and definitely all who are called to be shepherds in the local church) must refuse to allow sin to go on in the local church without calling it out… “
Kevin, that sounds nice but is your church “calling out” everyone in your church during every Sunday gathering who is divorced and/or committing adultery? Or is your church like most American Christian churches and only “calling out” the sins the are politically advantageous to “call out”??
Kevin, earlier you said this:
“How would you argue your way out of Matthew 18:10-20?”
Did you read all of Matthew 18? Please read the part of Matthew 18 I have pasted below and explain to me where God gives you the authority to “call out” the sins of others after he forgave you your sins??
“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
“The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’
“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”
CS on Fri, March 21, 2008
Mark:
“Did you read all of Matthew 18? Please read the part of Matthew 18 I have pasted below and explain to me where God gives you the authority to “call out” the sins of others after he forgave you your sins?? “
This part of Matthew 18, and pretty much everything after verse 15, deals with interpersonal sin, when people sin against each other. That does not preclude us from preaching the Gospel so that the Holy Spirit can convict people of their sins, even if it means naming sins.
—
CS
Kevin on Fri, March 21, 2008
Yes, my church does seek to call out every unrepentant public sin we can. Not in an effort to pretend that we in leadership are without sin, but in an effort to protect our church and our sheep from taking sin lightly. Remember that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Unrepentant, ongoing sin prevents the brother in sin from having real fellowship with God and with his/her brothers in Christ. It is BEST for the errant brother to stop sinning and to have sweet, victorious fellowship with his Creator… we want the best possible life for every believer.
CS’s assessment is true and right. This parable is not applicable to the discussion. The Bible calls us to forgive our brother when he sins against us. This is exactly what “church discipline” when done right is seeking: the restoration of a brother or sister in Christ. When a brother who has been caught in sin repents, we are quick to forgive and restore! That is what the Bible teaches.
The thing that really worries me about many of your comments and rebuttals is that you appear to believe that the Bible contradicts itself. That is so dangerous! If you do in fact believe this then our conversation is fruitless as we are diametrically opposed.
I know that the Word of God is unchanging and true in every way. What you have done, thus far, is refuse to acknowledge the scriptures that I and others have pointed out; but instead you quote other scripture that are either speaking of entirely different issues or are pulled out of context in your arguments. You have not been able to answer the scriptures that clearly point out our RESPONSIBILITY to our brothers in Christ.
Another amusing thing to note is that anytime you quote Paul’s letters to the churches, you are quite literally contradicting the principle of your argument. Each of Paul’s letters had dual purposes: to encourage the church and to call out sin that was present. This was done in a loving and beneficial way to each body; likewise the church must learn from Paul’s model of how we are to call out sin.
I fear this conversation has turned fruitless, as it appears we won’t see eye to eye on this topic. As someone else pointed out, I am sorry that the church has hurt you in the past. I am sorry we can’t come to a consensus. I am sorry for the pain that you have experienced.
I am going to bow out of this conversation to avoid “fruitless controversies” as the Bible instructs.
Thank you for your comments and candor.
His,
Kevin
Mark on Sat, March 22, 2008
Kevin wrote:
“Another amusing thing to note is that anytime you quote Paul’s letters to the churches, you are quite literally contradicting the principle of your argument. Each of Paul’s letters had dual purposes: to encourage the church and to call out sin that was present.”
What amuses me is that you clearly fail to understand that you are not Paul. There is no contradiction in the scriptures when you don’t try to use it to bolster your own sense of self importance. You are quick to offer help to remove the speck from your brother’s eye while the plank is still in your own eye. You are still swimming in your own arrogance blatantly ignoring your own sins while “calling out” others. I pray that you someday realize your error and that the Church that taught you to be so arrogant continues its slow fade into decline and obscurity.
Each day that you “call out” the sins of others you push people away from Jesus and each day you confess your own sin you draw people closer.
The Bible is clear. The consequences are eternal. You know what to do. All that remains is for you to decide to do it.
Until that day, please stop telling people you are a Christian because you are not.
Mark on Sat, March 22, 2008
Deaubry wrote:
“when we are at the judgement seat of christ, and jesus ask how i plead i will say i plead the blood of jesus”
And just exactly what do you plan to do when Jesus replies: “‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
You should go read Matthew 7 again carefully and become very concerned for your future.
Peter Hamm on Sat, March 22, 2008
Mark,
too far…
deaubry on Sat, March 22, 2008
i am not concerned about my future because i have the holy spirit of god, if you have not the holy spirit of god you are none of his.but if i do sin jesus will forgive me, but thank you for being concerned,
Leonard Lee on Sat, March 22, 2008
time to stop now Mark. This blog site is for exchanging ideas and interacting with topics and people. It is not for telling people that they are not saved and being rude. you have been engaged politely but seem to lack the grace to return politeness. I am done dialogging on this level with you and hope others will follow suit since you seem to want to fight. Should you want to change your tone and tactic, I would be more than willing to dialog. but for now it is a waste of my time.
Mark on Sat, March 22, 2008
Deabury wrote:
“thank you for being concerned, “
You are very welcome.
Peter Hamm wrote:
“Mark, too far… “
Peter, which part of Matthew 7 do you think went too far?
Leonard wrote:
“time to stop now Mark. This blog site is for exchanging ideas”
Is it really, Leonard, or is this site only for ideas you approve of? My idea is that Matthew 7:21 is extremely serious business and that you may be twisting the writings of Paul out of context to suite your own earthly purposes and you do so at your own peril. Which part of Matthew 7 do you suggest we should stop reading, quoting and discussing?
CS on Sat, March 22, 2008
Mark:
“Peter, which part of Matthew 7 do you think went too far?”
On the one hand, you’re telling people to stop judging, and on the other, you’re calling people out as being not Christians.
I agree with the others; knock it off.
—
CS
Mark on Sat, March 22, 2008
CS wrote:
“On the one hand, you’re telling people to stop judging”
You need to learn how to pay better attention to the conversation. I’m not telling you anything. God is instructing you through Matthew 7 to not judge others. The text is simple and clear. Perhaps you need to learn how to read?
CS went on to write:
“...and on the other, you’re calling people out as being not Christians”
Again, for the slow learners, I’m not calling anyone out. Its not for me to Judge. Matthew 7:23 was not written by me. If you don’t like what Matthew 7 plainly and clearly requires for you to call yourself a Christian and to get into heaven then I suggest you take up your issue with the author.
Its going to be fun watching you with a shocked look on your face on the judgement day when you are crying and whining to Jesus: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out homosexuals and perform many other miracles?’
And then Jesus tells you: ‘I never knew you. Away from me…”
You have the same opportunity to read and follow Matthew 7 as I do. Charles Barkley is pointing you to Matthew 7. I suggest you take heed of his warning and not squander your opportunity before its too late.
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