Ed Young, Jr. on “Church Pirates”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, May 27, 2008
- Viewed 142
- (100) comments so far
For your response: Have you ever had a church pirate on your staff? Have you ever been a church pirate? Let me know your thoughts on this subject!
Ed Young, Jr. recently recorded this at a staff meeting at Fellowship Church in Dallas. What is a 'church pirate'? It is a person who serves on a church staff who suddenly decides to leave the church and start a new church 'plant' in the same city. Sounds like Ed may have been burned on this one a time or two. Take a look and let me know what you think.
Comments
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Gordon on Tue, May 27, 2008
It grieves my heart to hear pastors make these kind of statements. We need to remember whose Kingdom we serve in. We need to remember whose sheep we feed. We need to remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ to His disciples in Mark 9:39… Forbid him not… Who am I as a pastor to tell anyone else not to follow the Lord’s leading in his life. He is the servant of Christ. As a pastor, I do not “own” anything or anyone. Thefore no man can “pirate” me. Ed is missing a wonderful opportunity to have some Timothy’s and Titus’ in his life. No wonder Paul said that we do not have many fathers among us. If a man considers himself a “senoir pastor,” he should not forsake his call to pastor his pastors as well. Jesus is into sending… not sectarianism. When our Lord sends a man out from us, that is called multiplication…. not division.
JR on Tue, May 27, 2008
If you’ve seen much of Ed’s teaching to pastors, this is his typical rant - disloyalty and betrayal. His sheep, his staff, his ministry, his church… IMO, it’s almost cult-like.
Peter Hamm on Tue, May 27, 2008
[I’m sure many of sheep have strayed into Ed’s pen from other local churches.]
There is BIG difference between “sheep straying in” and planting a church with the intent, or with the only real plan, being attracting already-churched believers from other places. I encourage people all the time to stay in their churches and not come to our much bigger one.
If you’ve ever been in a church plant, you know what I’m talking about.
[When our Lord sends a man out from us, that is called multiplication…. not division.] And when a man leaves a church and plants another one down the street just like it and tries to pull people from that church (often intentionally) it’s not called multiplication. It’s called division, and it’s disloyal, and it’s just plain wrong. And it happens.
chipster on Tue, May 27, 2008
I can just say I am very disappointed in Ed Young Jr. I went to his blog and it is very interesting that the comments on his are all the same flavor as his. Unlike this blog where there are many who disagree with his thoughts.
I hate insecurity and I agree that churches nor pastors own people. If the folks who are leaving were happy and content, do you think they would leave in the first place?
Lighten up and chill out dude! The woeth me thing really isn’t him. It is God’s kingdom, God’s people, and there are too many lost people out there to whine about the fact that somebody took my church member. waahhhhh!
Andy Wood on Tue, May 27, 2008
In 2000 I was “downsized” along with 28 other people from a local megachurch because of a severe drop in attendance and finances. I travelled and consulted for a couple of years, helped my wife run three restaurants, did some interim and bi-vocational work, and explored other avenues of service, including being considered by three churches in this area.
Twice I was approached by someone about starting a church. The first time was in an angry season, and the time wasn’t right and the spirit wasn’t good. (Build a church around a bunch of angry people, and a year later they’ll be angry at you.)
Two years after my termination, I was again approached, and after careful and serious prayer, believed this time God was calling me to do something I never thought I would do - start a church.
On the Tuesday before our first Sunday, guess who came calling - offended, angry, and crying (in Ed’s language), “Pirate!”?
I was greatly disturbed. This was the farthest thing from my mind and heart. I was simply seeking to be obedient to the Holy Spirit’s leadership, and believe that to this day.
I went to every one of the men I had asked to serve as ad hoc elders, and will never forget the wisdom one offered - “Andy, it’s all about the money. If they weren’t seeing the threat of a loss of money, it wouldn’t bother them.”
Could it be that simple?
I wonder if, when someone left Ed’s (or anybody’s) church, their attendance and offerings (both measurable and often ego-driven statistics) actually went up, we would have seen this video.
Of course, there are manipulative, selfishly-ambitious, and deceptive people out there. Paul dealt with such former associates constantly (e.g., Philippians 1:12-19). But I don’t see him in prison hollering, “Pirate!” Save that for the devil, Ed.
Bert on Tue, May 27, 2008
Pretty arrogant to think one church in every town is all we need. When you moved into Plano or Ft. Worth or downtown Dallas did you consider you’d be “stealing” people from other churches? Or did you check everyone’s ID at the door and send them back if they came from another church? I get the fact you’re talking about people leaving your church and starting something down the street, but aren’t the results the same? You’re taking “sheep” from other places. Talk to any small church located close to a mega-church and that pastor will tell you the mega-church is the pirate. And why can’t four or five people meet at a church and be blessed with a calling to plant another church? What is so wrong witht that? Why do you speculate their hearts are full of deceipt and disloyalty? You have several thousand attend every week and dozens of part/full-time staff. Do you honestly think everyone has to fall in line forever? Couldn’t God bless someone while they’re at Fellowship and then send them off on another adventure? Even if that adventure is 10 miles away? He/she may want to plant a church that God is calling him/her to plant. And that will look different than Fellowship. And so what if people from Fellowship go to that church. Isn’t the main goal that people are going somewhere to grow spiritually? Please don’t post any more staff meeting videos like this. You’re not doing yourself or your church any favors.
Shawn Wood on Tue, May 27, 2008
I think the point that many of you are missing is that Ed is not against starting churches. He is not even against people leaving Fellowship to start churches. Ed left Second Baptist Houston to start fellowship and teamed up with a local DFW area church to do so. The difference is that he did not intentionally plant himself in a church with the sole purpose of building a following and then splitting the church. That is the issue at hand and that is what he is calling people out for. If you have ever been a part of a church spit you will know that this is never a good thing. I see many young leaders who want to build a church within a church and then split off. What Ed is saying is “do it right”. I am not sure that splitting a church is showing great leadership…just my humble opinion…
kevin d. on Tue, May 27, 2008
wow… there are lots of good insights here… i tend to agree with steve w’s perspective….
in a recent situation due to a conflict of philosophies of ministry among our staff, i ended up resigning from my ministry, mainly for the purpose of “preserving the peace”…
on the surface, the situation had the appearance of an “amicable split”, but i must say that in the aftermath, the temptation to begin a new ministry in the same town was significant… doing that would likely have caused even more hurt and division, and as i sought the Lord about it, it seemed more like something i wanted to do for my own gratification / vindication than it was a way to continue to serve the Lord ... thankfully, i did not give in to that temptation…
that being said, i still wonder sometimes if it would be so wrong for a new work to spring up right in the same neck of the woods that would (for lack of a better term) “challenge” the status quo of some dyed-in-the-wool ministries… kinda like putting a taco bell (not a burger king) next to a mc donalds…
the fact is that some people who frequent a mc donald’s wouldn’t set foot in a taco bell, and vice-versa… so… what i am saying is that perhaps another ministry in the same neighborhood that does things differently would increase the spread and affect of the the gospel, and a church split might be considered a positive thing in some situations…
Brian on Tue, May 27, 2008
Church = Body of Christ
Melody on Tue, May 27, 2008
I don’t doubt that there are people in Grapevine and the surrounding area who like the type of worship and teaching at Fellowship, but who for whatever reason want a smaller congregation and sermons delivered by a pastor who knows them by name. In fact, I know a number of them.
And frankly, since Fellowship has started building all of those satellites with video feeds you’d practically have to move out of state not to be “next door” to Young’s church. Why is it wrong for a member of that community to decide to minister in his community when he sees that there is a need among the people he knows?
My husband and I have been involved on some level in several SBC church plants, although never one of the founders but rather a church we found after a relocation. In each case, the sponsoring church actively recruited members to move to the new church (with their tithes) to help establish it. And all of these were done right in the same city, even neighborhood.
I liked that statement above about “divide and multiply.” In fact, it’s how Young’s church was established back in the day.
Rick White on Tue, May 27, 2008
Just curious. To those that agree with Ed and say that this is “not God’s plan” for starting or planting a church:
What’s your biblical reason/s? Ed gave a corporate example…but I’m not sure what biblical reason any of this can be based on outside of someone’s heart being one of envy and strife while planting said-church. And as a follow-up…how can one assume all guys that go such a route have envy, strife, etc. in their heart? This just seems random, weird and creepy to me…
“If you’re that big and bad, go out and do it yourself”. What kind of statement is that?!? Is this what he really thinks is at the heart of men that are called to plant churches—that we’re “big and bad”? My motivation is the Gospel and the God who called me…not my rather insufficient abilities. Does he really think a called pastor should “do it yourself” to be legit?
This is all very troubling if taken at face value. Perhaps he’ll shed more light on all this by giving some background story to help understand why this is so personally agitating to him right now…
Pastor Steve on Tue, May 27, 2008
Wow, sounds to me like three are alot of church pirates or potentioal church pirates out there who disagreed with Pastor ed young. I don’t think pastor young has a confidence problem or that he is worried about some youg buck moving in on his turf. It is about respect, honor, loyalty and maturity as a leader. Real pastors don’t just up and go they wait and are sent .
Someone said pastors have a hard time letting younger leaders reach for their full potential, but maybe the pastor sees areas of weakness that could back fire on the young pastor if he steps out to early. But thats the problem today very few people are willing to submit to their pastor when it’s not what they want to hear.
Some of you obviously are not pastors and have no understanding of the spiritual attachment a pastor has with the flock God has made him overseer. And while it is true no pastor ownes his sheep. they are his by means of responsability. And for someone to come in and steal that, well i don;t think God’s blessing will be on that new ministry that was not started in a honorable manner. And remember numbers and growth is not always God’s blessings. Even a deadly infection can grow.
I completely agree with Ed Young. And all of you who have criticized him… you will agree with him too when it happens to you. Thank you and God Bless
adam mclane on Tue, May 27, 2008
One thing that struck me with this video is the lack of understanding Young has with how business works. He referred to something like “this would never happen in the business world.” Well, that’s correct if that person signed a non-compete prior to being hired. But in 99.9% of jobs in this country that isn’t the case.
As someone who has working in “corporate America” he is just denying simple fact. There is little any company can do to stop an ex-employee from starting a business in their former employees backyard.
Without “pirating” this country wouldn’t have some of our best companies, products, and innovations.
I think Young should change his thinking and think about the Kingdom of God instead of his lil kingdom.
We all know that each church reaches a certain type of person. He should be happy that a person would take the risk and try to reach people Fellowship missed.
Erik on Tue, May 27, 2008
While I certainly disagree with Ed Young Jr’s thought process and undue concern for people stealing “his” sheep, there is certainly something very wrong with what he is calling “church piracy.”
When you train leaders up, you are training them how to lead a ministry and reach people for Christ in whatever way your church feels is the most God-glorifying way. If this leader who is brought up doesn’t spread out and go somewhere else in the nation or in the world, but instead stays in the community he is ministering to, what does that community get that it didn’t already have?
Granted it is a totally different thing if you split from your church because of heresy or some other very Biblical reason, but I am assuming that these scenarios aren’t what we are talking about here.
Ray on Tue, May 27, 2008
This is completely asinine!!
Another rant and rave by an aging pastor desperately trying to keep a hold on the numbers that define his success. Some of the statements he makes are just ludicrous.
Nobody ends up in jail for starting a competitor company. They can be sued if they signed a non-compete, but not jail time. And to call someone on a staff for 20 YEARS a disloyal “pirate?”
Just for the record, I’ve planted within the last year, 2 1/2 miles from the church (of about 200 people) I attended for 3 years, with the pastor’s blessing. That church was planted 5 years ago from a “megachurch” only 3 1/2 miles from there. Also with the pastor’s blessing.
The goal is to reach the lost. We need to get beyond the idea of building our little kingdoms and realize that God builds His church.
Anytime people are being discipled into the Christian life, we should rejoice, not grumble about how many people were “stolen” in the process.
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