Ed Young, Jr. on “Church Pirates”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, May 27, 2008
- Viewed 143
- (100) comments so far
For your response: Have you ever had a church pirate on your staff? Have you ever been a church pirate? Let me know your thoughts on this subject!
Ed Young, Jr. recently recorded this at a staff meeting at Fellowship Church in Dallas. What is a 'church pirate'? It is a person who serves on a church staff who suddenly decides to leave the church and start a new church 'plant' in the same city. Sounds like Ed may have been burned on this one a time or two. Take a look and let me know what you think.
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CS on Tue, May 27, 2008
Paul:
“Interesting. Based on the title, I though the article was going to be about churches that “pirate” Christians from other churches. I guess “church pirates” come in a variety of flavors.”
I think your post got overlooked, but this is also a great point. What about the megachurch that gets planted in a town and starts “pirating” people away from the smaller nearby churches? Shouldn’t there be just as much consternation towards those pastors as to a person who breaks off from another church to start his own?
—
CS
Rick Blue on Tue, May 27, 2008
I think some have missed the point. Ed is not talking about legitimate church planters. he is talking about church transplanters. People with wrong motives.
As to “owning” the sheep, pastors are not owners, but they are shepherds who will give account to the chief shepherd.
I am amazed at how many have judged Ed’s motives. As I watched the video, I saw a heart of concern. I guess it is because I have been there.
Lori on Tue, May 27, 2008
I guess my idea of church planting is different than Ed’s. I agree with Ed Stetzer when he said the church planting should be in a church’s DNA. Training leaders and lay workers and then sending them out in the same part of town or different, to reach the lost. I’ve seen this model work so many times, and the “sending” church is blessed because of it.
In our area of the country, the metro area is growing so rapidly that there are large areas without a church within five miles of people’s homes. I wish more churches would send out a member or two of it’s staff and some of it’s church members to start a church.
Peter Hamm on Tue, May 27, 2008
Ray writes [Just for the record, I’ve planted within the last year, 2 1/2 miles from the church (of about 200 people) I attended for 3 years, with the pastor’s blessing.]
And I hope with his assistance, maybe. And THAT is the difference. Some of you guys haven’t seen what happens when someone joins a staff with the express purpose of splitting the church. It’s horrible. That’s what Ed’s talking about. (Did you all actually hear what he said? Some of you it appears didn’t.)
[ What about the megachurch that gets planted in a town and starts “pirating” people away from the smaller nearby churches?] Good point. I have a counter. What about the town that is filled with churches who so worship tradition that they are only filled with the silver-haired set. What if no church moves into that town that actually appeals to people who are younger, and they all die in their sin? What if they don’t plant a church because they are afraid of offending the people who can’t seem to change their methods (never the message of course)?
That would be a tragedy. If there are churches in a community that are making a difference and reaching people who are lost, great, if there aren’t… then we need to plant new young churches to replace the old ones that we are seeing die away.
Teri Hogg on Tue, May 27, 2008
What I found interesting is the comment he makes about church planting in rich suburban areas. How often do people say that they are called to start a church in the inner city? How many suburbanites choose to go to a city church bringing in their money to help with that church’s needs. So often we choose churches that will meet OUR needs instead of seeking a church where we can meet its needs. I also thought by the title the discussion would be about new churches that come in and pirate away parishoners. That would be another one for good discussion.
paul merrill on Tue, May 27, 2008
I visited the Young church - and I must say, it seemed all about Hollywood & Mr. Young. In the store that is part of the church, his photo graced the cover of nearly every end cap. Books by him, for him and about him.
Rick White on Tue, May 27, 2008
Peter…I’m so sorry that you’ve been involved with church splits and the staff that create them. That’s terrible and hurtful for the kingdom. I’m also sorry that you’ve seen far too many churches be ineffective in communities where you’ve lived…thus necessitating new churches that will reach that commuity. I sympathize with both your points.
I would only ask that you re-listen to Ed’s message without those filters being so dominant. It’s easy to find solidarity with Ed’s entire message with your experiences. For those of us without those experiences, we might have heard a very different message and picked up on very different language than you.
All I ask is that you admit that your filters might be affecting your hearing…and I promise to do the same. I actually think Ed said some good things…but they were overshadowed for me by some snide remarks he inserted along the way. Just consider it.
Leonard on Tue, May 27, 2008
I have planted 2 churches, one in a low income, inner cite area and another in an urban suburban area. I am less than 3 minutes from the church that we planted from. In out first year another church came out of the church that planted us about five minutes from us and we sent almost 50-60 people. We were less than a year old.
I think that the reality is that within 15 minutes of where we are are several hundred thousand people who do not know Christ. We planted all our churches with these people in mind. I pay very little attention to the size of other churches since there are so many people who they do not reach.
I understand Ed’s comments. They in some ways seem poorly communicated. I do know people who have pirated as Ed calls it. I think it is stuff that probably did not need to be said, he said it to his staff.
Adrian on Tue, May 27, 2008
The senior pastor SHOULD initiate new churches in community centers and homes and start them himself if he does not have leaders that can do it. With the approval of my church of 600 in attendance in Hayward, CA I drove across the San Mateo bridge to Foster City, rented the community Center, and using Rick Warren’s church plant letter with permission (“At last a church for those who have given up on church”) I planted a new church where 264 people showed up at the very first meeting. A cop on the beat walked in and asked me, “What is going on here?” It was such a “new” unchurchy crowd that during a “get acquainted sharing time” a man got up and said, “What the hell, I gotta share this, yesterday I got a hole-in-one at the local golf course!” There were only cheers and applause. Can you imagine what would happen in the typical stuff-shirt “normal” church if some guy jumped up and shared that testimony. Well, when the applause calmed down I said, “Sir, how about starting a sharing time in your home?” He did and I led it to get it started the following week. In about 6 weeks he accepted the Lord in his own home! I never pass an offering plate in any of my churches, just a box or two for VOLUNTEER no-pressure-giving in the lobby. Minister friends have difficulty believing it but offerings increase when no pressure-plate is passed under every nose! The Foster City church met at 9 AM Sundays and grew. Each Sunday I drove back to my Hayward church and preached at 11 AM worship. A senior pastor needs to encourage leaders in his church to go out into the neighborhoods and offer help and plant any kind of church fellowship that will draw the unchurched and unbeliever. If a pastor only builds his one ‘“EMPIRE” then competition will inevitably appear.
Dedicated on Tue, May 27, 2008
Yup…a group of us founded a church only to have the second pastor we called whoosh in and “steal” our work…changing the constitution to be what he wanted to protect his job forever, making elder rule, changing the location, the chairs, the time of worship, the leadership,and running off anyone who dared challenge his position. Oh, did I mention he hurt many beautiful Christian people while splitting this church in a small community?
On top of that, he did another number to assure his position forever in the church. The only result was to leave a work we had poured our hearts into and leave this person to our Heavenly Father who says, “He will replay.”
Camey on Tue, May 27, 2008
Leonard: That type of church planting is totally different than what hubby and I were approached about back in 2005/2006. If it had been that type - we probably would have jumped at it honestly.
I think it is good to point out that we all watch Ed’s video with our own blinders on from past experiences as well as current. Peter is far from being the only guilty one. Just sayin….
Dedicated on Tue, May 27, 2008
Yup…a group of us founded a church only to have the second pastor we called whoosh in and “steal” our work…changing the constitution to be what he wanted to protect his job forever, making elder rule, changing the location, the chairs, the time of worship, the leadership,and running off anyone who dared challenge his position. Oh, did I mention he hurt many beautiful Christian people while splitting this church in a small community?
On top of that, he did another number to assure his position forever in the church. The only result was to leave a work we had poured our hearts into and leave this person to our Heavenly Father who says, “He will repay.”
Bruce van Heerden on Tue, May 27, 2008
I think Ed Young has been around this mountain before, he is a great guy and does a great job for God, but I do think that he needs to look at the reason people leave and start another church, sometimes the head guy is so dictatorial that people become “Pirates” because they are tired of “Captain Bligh” “ and the way he runs the “Bounty” so rather than confront the captain they leave and start on there own.
We also need to realise that in America most mega churches are mega because they “pirated” people from other churches, he did it in Grapevine, Bishop Jakes did it in Dallas, there are very few new converts in the mega churches, and then you have to put up with the kids of the “Captain” who are now taking over the ship without any qualification except blood.
Dedicated on Tue, May 27, 2008
We had to fight for an adult Bible study for two months and for the cross to be where he wanted the big screen.
And oh, have any of you ever heard the policy that you can’t lead little children to the Lord under 12 unless the parents are present?
Rick White on Tue, May 27, 2008
Dedicated…do you attend Fellowship?
Also…would someone like to plainly spell out the background for these comments?
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