Florida Pastor Cleans House: Fires SIX Staff Pastors
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Sun, November 16, 2008
- Viewed 372
- (74) comments so far
After the meeting, the Senior Pastor was cleared of any wrongdoing. In an attempt to bring some reconciliation to the staff, the deacons scheduled individual meetings with the six pastors for November 4. When none of the six showed up for the meeting, the six were fired.
Last Sunday, during the service, some members ‘shouted down’ Dr. Cummins, forcing him to cut the service short. According to the newspaper, a ‘couple hundred’ worshipers crowded the altar, chanting “We want the truth”.
Dr. Cummins says he hopes for reconciliation with the fired pastors.
Whenever I report a story such as this, inevitably I will get emails telling me not to spread this bad stuff around. I totally understand. However, the reason I do report such things is I think they make great studies for every pastor and church to consider. Here are some examples:
1. If you’re the senior pastor of a church with multiple staff, what would you do if you had a situation of staff mutiny?
2. If you have one person who needs to be fired, that’s tough enough. But what if the problem extends to more than one staff members, or a group of staff members? Are you willing to take the risk to do what you need to do?
3. If you’re a staff member and you have a problem with your senior pastor, how do you proceed? Forming a coalition and emailing bad stuff and blowing off meetings with the personnel team didn’t work in this case? How should you voice your concern?
4. What would you do if you were shouted down in a service, or if a good number of your people started chanting ‘we want the truth’.
5. How do you respond to the secular press, who always seem to have a heyday with this kind of thing?
Without knowing the situation, it is impossible to know if these staff members had a valid complaint; or if they were just a bunch of trouble makers. And that is not really the point of this point. The point of this post is to see how things can go so, so wrong… and think through how you might respond to such a situation. That could have a huge benefit you in the future of your ministry.
So… what are your answers to the above questions? I’d love to hear your thoughts!
Todd
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After being on the job just a year, Dr. Mark Cummins did the unthinkable: He fired six of his staff pastors; six pastors who were considered loyalists of the previous, long-term pastor. According to Ocala.com, the firings have caused a major rift in one of the areas largest and most prominent churches. in 2007, Cummings came on staff as the pastor, replacing 20 year veteran Rev. Ed Johnson. What was the main reason for the firings? The church is not really saying... other than an email sent to church elders on Halloween from the six staff that called the senior pastor "manipulative," "dishonest," and "untrustworthy". They followed up that email, calling for a meeting with the deacons, but were referred to the church's personnel committee. A meeting with the personnel committee lasted for nine hours, according to the Ocala newspaper...
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Kevin McCord on Mon, November 17, 2008
All of us in ministry need accountability. This pastor designed and implemented new Bylaws at his last church that removed ALL accountability and gave him complete control. Please combine these facts with the track record he had and avoid assuming you know why these 6 pastors in Ocala risked their livelihoods.
Pastor Power - New Bylaws
Blessings,
Kevin McCord
fishon on Mon, November 17, 2008
Lynn said, “This is a sad day for the church - demonstrating like gay marriage advocates who didn’t get their way.”
————Absolutely! Sackcloth and ashes would have been the way to go. Amen, Lynn. You are right on.
fishon
fishon on Mon, November 17, 2008
Leonard,
fishon/jerry is not redfishon.
I am the staff of the church I pastor, and I get along pretty well with my self. I haven’t considered fire me, not yet anyway.
fishon
Kevin McCord on Mon, November 17, 2008
Todd,
You missed an article on this topic published by the newspaper that broke the story. You linked your readers to the original “here’s what happened last week” article as well as to the interview with the pastor, but you missed the investigative article entitled ”At Pastor’s Previous Church a Legacy of Trumoil”.
Blessings,
Kevin McCord
Leonard on Mon, November 17, 2008
Funny, redfishon is Jerry too. How can this be? It is another Christmas miracle.
Wayde Goodall on Mon, November 17, 2008
Hi Todd, thanks for Monday Morning Insight.
I served on the Pulpit and Pew think take at Duke University for four years. One of the purposes of the “think tank” was to determine why so many pastors are quitting and why all denominations are having a challenge in getting people to sign up for a career in ministry.
Basically ... the number one reason why (by a long shot) so many pastors resign is because of “conflict” issues in the church. I.e., not knowing how to handle conflct, the timing of when to address conflict, the history and people involved in the conflict and the major tensions that are part of the conflict. These issues and others cause many pastors to feel that the situation is distracting (to say the least) or impossible in the worst cases.
We found that wIth pastors that have multiple staffs, the major reasons why they quit is not just conflict ... but conflict among the associate staff members (See the book, Pastors in Transition, Eerdmans).
It seems that when a pastor comes to a church with a staff in place that the loyalty issues, trust (on both sides), and power plays (among some existing staff) are part of the presenting problem. Many boards do not think this through as their concern (when bringing a new senior leader on) is getting a pastor in place.
Some thoughts.
The staff that you inherit has been hired by another leader whom they bought into.
As the new senior leader, we need to understand all the job discriptions, know the people doing these ministry positions, and evaluate if they are doing the job (that takes time).
If we have issues such as disloyalty (toward us) or unearned mistrust (the associate has an issue “attitude”) then we need to act in an appropriate way and speak to the person, then decide if it will ever work.
If it will not work, then deciding the best way to transition the person out is the next step.
My hope is that there would be more training for pastors and leaders in churches that addresses these issues. This problem has proven to be a very messy, hurtful, and divisive issue in far to many churches.
One more thought, it seems that the pastor that inherits a staff, positive and negative history, and problems that have not been addressed by the previous administration ... “is at a disadvantage.” Great wisdom, discernment, and understanding is manditory ... or the situation can get out of control ... fast.
The advice that seems to come from most that have been through this is ...
Give it some time and communicate trust.
If there are loyalty issues on the staff, deal with them (one on one) and keep the board informed.
My, my ... what they don’t teach us in Seminary!
Rev. Kareem on Mon, November 17, 2008
Hiring and firing staff pastors…
I like what both Ken and Leonard stated, so if I could combine the two for just to form my opinion…
• Sometimes there are people in the church who believe they have the right to know every detail. They believe they have the right to voice any opinion as well. These two beliefs cause much harm in the Body of Christ.
• One problem is that some people do not believe the senior pastor has the right to be the boss. They believe he cannot hold people to standards of doing their job with the right attitude and actions.
• before the Church every voted on him, he would have an agreement in writing that all the staff would within the first 3 to 6 months turn in their resignation. Then at that point, he would have to the choice of accepting or denying those resignations. What it would do, he said, was to make the existing staff who were hired by another pastor understand their value to his leadership…
Sometimes people who have been serving in a ministry position for a long period of time feels they own that position and nobody else could do their jobs…I’ve seen many of ministries that had people serving in a particular position for a long period of time; and when the new pastor comes in there’s a sense of seniority that these people tends to hold onto… I’ve been holding this position for x amount of years and because the former pastor gave it to me, nobody can’t take it away… (A sort of entitlement)…
when we truly understand ministry, then we’ll understand that we’re replaceable and we don’t have a monopoly on the church… nobody owns a ministry/staff/or volunteer position… many times the new senior pastor walks into these types of ministries and feel a sense of inferiority…”Thank God for bold leaders who aren’t scared of the folks…”
I like what my father in the ministry taught me, “everybody that he put into position he also had them sign their resignation letter the date he put them in…” he let them know up front, he put them in office and he’ll take them out of office. This way they don’t have a monopoly on the ministry and they know their place… they’re not above the Sr. pastor, they’re to work to fulfill the vision God has given the sr. pastor… and if the sr. pastor see where the relationship isn’t working out, he has the authority to let them go… God works through the head of the church not through the staff… it is the sr. pastor that God gives the vision for the church not the staff pastors… and sometimes a sr. pastor must fire everybody and start from scratch… God would vindicate the sr. pastor… (I’ve witnessed ministries where this happened… yes it was tough on the congregation, yes many hearts were saddened…but it had to happen…and God vindicated the sr. pastor…)
For this reason, many pastors rather work without them… I have served as a staff pastor and when I saw the relationship between the sr. pastor and me was deteriorating, I removed myself from that ministry… in the end we’re both happy and still working for the kingdom of God…
As a sr. pastor I believe in firing/dismissing those who aren’t lining up with the vision and direction the church is headed…
Peter Dodge on Mon, November 17, 2008
Ken, good point on other staff submitting their resignations when a new senior is appointed. In some churches, and denominations, that is customary.
I have never served as a senior pastor, although I have worn the hats of leadership in most of the common ministries you find in typical churches.
I know one thing for sure, it is paramount that all staff be on the same page as the senior/lead pastor. If I am in disagreement with a senior on a particular topic, that is taken up in private, and it has never been an issue or a detriment to my ministry. The lines of communication between subordinate staff and the lead pastor must remain open at all times.
The fact that the six associates did not show up for the meeting, which was reportedly aimed at reconciliation was a strike against them. Whoever we are, wherever we are in ministry, we must, MUST, must always ALWAYS always seek reconciliation. Sometimes that is not possible, but if we are truly people of faith in a God who created everything, why is it so hard for congregants and ministers to believe that reconciliation is possible.
I believe the committee at FBC Ocala acted in good faith. By not showing up, the six associates did not honor that. My question is, does the offer of reconciliation still stand? It should.
Peter on Mon, November 17, 2008
I’ve seen a couple of comments about the idea of the church acting in good faith by offering these meetings, but I know that sometimes these meetings are stacked with people who are not impartial or (as noted in some areas) might be presided over by the pastor. In those cases, I can see that attending a meeting like that is pointless and the offer to have a meeting is more putting on a show than anything else.
Not saying that this is the case here, but I know that it could very well have felt this way to those people let go. From what I’ve read on this one, it sounds like there is a history with this particular pastor and the local church body may want to explore that some more. Sadly, those of us in the more independent/non-structured denominations often do a poor job of checking out our leaders before calling them. I’ve even been part of a church or two that just moved as quickly as possible through the hiring process and just about took the first person they found. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/tongue_laugh.gif
Rev. Kareem on Mon, November 17, 2008
Yes, the offer of reconciliation should always stand, however, a sabbatical should be issued if the sr. pastor wishes to keep them on… (I know a person who was serving as a associate pastor/minister and he let his position go to his head. He thought he was the sr. pastor and he thought everything the sr. pastor did was wrong… this associate pastor had the backing of the congregation but he didn’t have the blessings of God… so the associate pastor thought he had a point to prove so he left the church and started his own… 3-6 months down the line he realized that he was out of order and God wasn’t blessing his steps… in humiliation the associate went back to the sr. pastor and sought reconciliation…the sr. pastor forgave the associate but the associate was put on a year sabbatical for his actions…today that associate pastor leads a congregation where over 1,000 in attendance weekly…and the sr. pastor ministry grew as well…) we must learn accountability… we can’t do whatever we want just because we’re serving in ministry… we all have to be accountable… the associates are held accountable to the sr. pastor and the sr. pastor is held accountable to God…
Rev. Kareem on Mon, November 17, 2008
every saint has a past and every sinner has a future…
we can’t do ministry based upon what happened in the past… so, you wouldn’t hire a pastor that had a criminal record…no matter how much God has His hands on them?
Kevin McCord on Mon, November 17, 2008
The words mutiny and loyalists are framing this discussion. So many of the points made are valid only in the vacuum of our presuppositions about what happens when change is brought to a church by a new and visionary pastor.
Change is not the problem here. Vision is not the problem here. Mark Cummins got all the change he wanted in South Florida and he still left. The people who supported him and the people who questioned his integrity were ALL hurt in the process. The problem here is integrity and the manner in which a senior pastor treats those he leads.
There is great advice in these comments, but the advice presupposes the issue is with pastoral strategy as opposed to character and the tactics employed to accomplish the goals.
The clearest evidence are the bylaws I published on my blog that Mark put into place in South Florida. The need for complete control and absolute loyalty are evident in those documents. Add that to the pain experienced by hundreds in South Florida many of whom were individually and personally manipulated. Only then is it possible to appreciate that these 6 men have put their careers, their church family, and their reputations on the line simply to have an opportunity to address their deacon body as a whole with their observations about Mark Cummins’ Integrity.
My senior pastor has an amazing amount of influence and autonomy that he has earned. We have a VERY strong constitution that gives him way more authority than a typical Baptist church. Our bylaws are for a strong senior pastor and I would tender my resignation to the incoming pastor in a heartbeat. To assume these 6 ministers in Ocala are simply entrenched, mutinous, loyalists is unfair. Those words presuppose the truth of this sad situation and they fly in the face of the trail of pain behind this senior leader.
Chris L on Mon, November 17, 2008
Many in the discussion have used the terms “hiring and firing” quite a bit and one even seemed to say the Sr Pastor is the head of the church. Eph 5:23 tells us Christ is the head of the church.
As a staff member of 15 years I have been “called” to a place of ministry by God. A new pastor does not change my sense of call to serve where I am. Let’s not forget staff members are called as well. Yes my pastor has the authority to dismiss and for the good of the church I would go quietly. However, I think this man’s track record speaks loudly.
Business Guy on Mon, November 17, 2008
In the world of business, any leader who felt the need to fire all of his subordinates would likely be fired him or herself. To simply replace an entire team shows a total ignorance of how to lead people. Why would I want to work or be loyal to someone who is that callous? I wouldn’t get near such a leader.
Of course, churches are more like dictatorships than are businesses, but should they be? It is about God, not all about the senior pastor.
ocalagirl on Mon, November 17, 2008
I believe the church body should be able to ask questions and get answers. Not on a Sunday morning but call a special meeting and let the MEMBERS speak. It feels like a death and in some ways it is. In order to heal we need to be able to express our thoughts, feelings, fears and even the future of our church.
After all the years that these men have given to FBC, where is the loyality? Why haven’t the deacons stood up for these men? I realize that deacons are human and they make mistakes but come on. And where does it say that a “pastor” can decide who can come to church and who can’t? And tell a sunday school teacher that their service is no longer needed? Sounds like a power hungry fool to me.
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