Florida Pastor Cleans House: Fires SIX Staff Pastors
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Sun, November 16, 2008
- Viewed 371
- (74) comments so far
After the meeting, the Senior Pastor was cleared of any wrongdoing. In an attempt to bring some reconciliation to the staff, the deacons scheduled individual meetings with the six pastors for November 4. When none of the six showed up for the meeting, the six were fired.
Last Sunday, during the service, some members ‘shouted down’ Dr. Cummins, forcing him to cut the service short. According to the newspaper, a ‘couple hundred’ worshipers crowded the altar, chanting “We want the truth”.
Dr. Cummins says he hopes for reconciliation with the fired pastors.
Whenever I report a story such as this, inevitably I will get emails telling me not to spread this bad stuff around. I totally understand. However, the reason I do report such things is I think they make great studies for every pastor and church to consider. Here are some examples:
1. If you’re the senior pastor of a church with multiple staff, what would you do if you had a situation of staff mutiny?
2. If you have one person who needs to be fired, that’s tough enough. But what if the problem extends to more than one staff members, or a group of staff members? Are you willing to take the risk to do what you need to do?
3. If you’re a staff member and you have a problem with your senior pastor, how do you proceed? Forming a coalition and emailing bad stuff and blowing off meetings with the personnel team didn’t work in this case? How should you voice your concern?
4. What would you do if you were shouted down in a service, or if a good number of your people started chanting ‘we want the truth’.
5. How do you respond to the secular press, who always seem to have a heyday with this kind of thing?
Without knowing the situation, it is impossible to know if these staff members had a valid complaint; or if they were just a bunch of trouble makers. And that is not really the point of this point. The point of this post is to see how things can go so, so wrong… and think through how you might respond to such a situation. That could have a huge benefit you in the future of your ministry.
So… what are your answers to the above questions? I’d love to hear your thoughts!
Todd
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After being on the job just a year, Dr. Mark Cummins did the unthinkable: He fired six of his staff pastors; six pastors who were considered loyalists of the previous, long-term pastor. According to Ocala.com, the firings have caused a major rift in one of the areas largest and most prominent churches. in 2007, Cummings came on staff as the pastor, replacing 20 year veteran Rev. Ed Johnson. What was the main reason for the firings? The church is not really saying... other than an email sent to church elders on Halloween from the six staff that called the senior pastor "manipulative," "dishonest," and "untrustworthy". They followed up that email, calling for a meeting with the deacons, but were referred to the church's personnel committee. A meeting with the personnel committee lasted for nine hours, according to the Ocala newspaper...
Comments
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Logan on Mon, November 17, 2008
I have mixed feeling about this whole matter. I do not know enough facts to take sides. I have known most of those 6 pastors for years, I would not think of them as people who would do anything out of proportion and rash.
All I can do, and many people can do, is just pray for the wellness of FBC, the pastors, the families of the pastors, the church family, and for everyone to know the whole truth, and not just make assumptions off of what they think might be true (rumors).
I believe that a church should be open, and just come out and say, the pastors did this and that is why they were fired, or at least distill some of the rumors and say what is true and what isn’t. But at the moment I have yet to go with Mark, or the pastors, although truthfully I find myself leaning slightly in favor of the pastors. Anyway I will probably get some bad feedback from this comment, but that is to be expected seeing as everyone has their own opinion.
Leonard on Mon, November 17, 2008
It is always interesting when someone using a screen name demands disclosure. No offense Ocala girl but you lose credibility in my opinion by not even being willing to use a name but wanting full facts.
In a church full disclosure is a myth. Just food for Gossip for Christians. How church people measure ministry and how it should be measured are usually different. Church people measure it by did they help me, were they likeable, were they nice, do other people like them , is there no visible sin…
It must be measured by some clear standards such as… Do people come into a relationship with Christ through their ministry. Is there a clear plan they use to develop disciples? Do they build leaders around them? Are they equipping and training people to do the first three. Very often people in the church do not use standards like these to discern whether a pastor is effective.
As for who can and who can’t come to church, a shepherd has a very clear and biblical responsibility to protect the flock. Sometimes this means telling someone to leave and not come around.
I have never heard of this guy before these posts and refuse to read the gossip put out on the about him. (gossip does not have to be untrue for it to be gossip) so I have nothing to gain or lose in this matter. I do know that when Jesus was accused he said nothing. I do know that when Jesus was falsely condemned, he actually became numbered with sinners. Not because he had no sin but because he did not chose to defend himself and disclose everything,
Beth on Mon, November 17, 2008
I agree that emotionally charged words such as “mutiny” are framing this discussion. In defense of the six ministers: In accordance with the church by-laws, they sought a meeting with the deacon body. This request was sent to church leadership and NOT to the church body as others have suggested. These men have yet to meet with the deacon body and have chosen to not speak publicly about their accusations against the pastor until they are able to meet with the deacons as a whole. They knew that such a decision could cost them their jobs but held their position to protect the people of the church and out of respect for the church by-laws.
I believe that integrity and character of the six men has stood the test of time. The reason they are loved and respected among the congregation is that they have lived our their faith day in and day out. We have seen them as husbands, fathers, coahces, students, leaders, and members of the community. Their love for God and for the people of FBC is genuine and has been demonstrated through great personal sacrifice.
In all your discussions, please remember that while you are reading about “just another church,” there are many people whose lives are deeply affected by the decisions made at FBC.
I pray that the ministers are able to speak to the deacons as members of the church. I also pray that in all of this, God will continue to work in the lives of the people of Ocala.
FLMom on Mon, November 17, 2008
Something that has troubled me as I have read articles from a Christian perspective and comments from members of FBCO and the West Hollywood church is how few of the comments are framed from the lens of Scripture. We evaluate our pastors from two main passages - 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9. (Of course there are others.) You see this situation spiralling out of control and the facts behind it start to become unimportant as we view how this pastor has chosen to handle the situation. Both of these Scripture passages begin with a simple statement - “the overseer MUST be above reproach. “ There is very little latitude to keep this pastor in his current position. Dr. Cummins is no longer above reproach. As you read about what transpired down in south Florida, it appears he was not above reproach there either. I do not believe there is a Christian out there reading all of these things that would disagree with that statement. The specifics are now insignificant from my veiwpoint.
The situation in Ocala poses a second disqualification for Dr. Cummins. 1 Timothy 3:7 states “And he MUST have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.” The church business out in the public like this has damaged not only Dr. Cummins reputation in the community, but First Baptist Church Ocala and the universal church as well. The questions this post has asked are good ones because how you handle something like this is a reflection of your character and your qualifications as a leader in the church. I highlighted MUST because it is not negotiable. If there is a time that these qualifications are not true of a man, he should step down. I do not know him personally and wish him no ill will, but at this point in the life of his ministry to God’s people, he is not qualified to lead them. The lens of Scripture is the best way to view all of this because it diffuses the situation and shows the path God would have for this church. There is no guessing and there are no longer sides, only God’s Word. If it is followed, God will begin the process of restoration for this church family.
James Lipton on Mon, November 17, 2008
Trent Kirkland said:
“Just for clarification, the email was sent to the entire church family, not the elders of the church, along with an automated phone message.”
This is, most definitely, NOT TRUE. No other members received this email from the 6 pastors. Anything sent to any other members of the church was as a result of a ‘leak’ in the deacon body.
Trent, please check your info before you post it. Your statement was simply not true.
If this happened once, it would perhaps be an aberration. However, this is not the first time such things have happened at the hands of Mark Cummins. While it’s great that he’s your friend and all, I would invite you to actually investigate what has happened rather than simply take his word for it. You may be surprised what you find.
James Lipton
JustAnotherSoul on Tue, November 18, 2008
I do not profess to know what kind of a relationship a man has with our Lord, I can tell you from first hand interaction with Mark on many levels he is not trained to lead people and he is not endowed with the natural ability care for, or counsel a congregation of people.
It is certainly something to say that as a man he has “brought people to Christ”...I have seen people come forward in his services, but what then, how do we care for and teach the “new to Christ” when all the programs in the church are halted?
How do we serve those whose spend their time ministering in our body of Christians when he won’t even allow a women’s ministry to exist?
Is the church a “drive thru”?...where the sign reads “over 1,000,000 souls saved? Surely the “Not So Newly Saved” need taken care of as well. A minister must be so much more than that…he is not a minister.
What’s worse is that when it comes to faith it is so easy for the wrong to say “Satan is testing me” when he is questioned or challenged..when done so , how easy to say that the person who has questions is “acting in sin”...I never did figure out what his REAL goals were for the church he left gasping for it’s last breath. All I ever heard was that we were going to “Build a Bridge to the Community” The Community exists inside the church as well.
Thankfully I know that God wants us to trust in Him and not mankind.. so that when someone like Mark dissapoints us sooo badly he does not drive us from the whole church, from God himself.
I can’t say that was the case for all involved.
He states he has “The devil running scared”? What an ego! Is it just the specific churches he happens to go to that end up being filled with all these evil people? The whole congregation was just out to get him?
I dare say the only people who won’t speak out eventually will be the ones who need their paycheck so badly they can’t afford to so so.
These foruma have EXPLODED with sadness and angst that Mark has created in order to fulfill his personal goals…people have turned on one another as they are unprepared for the special kind of deception that Mark unleashes in his surroundings.
The lengths he goes to pull the wool over a churches eyes is almost an ART FORM…when this is all said and done the Baptists Leadership in whole WILL be studying what went wrong in Ocala and Hollywood.
I can say this ...I do believe this will be the last place it happens, as there will be many injured and damaged a person who will go to great lengths to make sure he doesn’t “minister” to anyone else.
Rev. Kareem on Tue, November 18, 2008
Chris L,
we’re aware that Christ is the head of the church…we’re also aware that Christ left angels (sr. pastors) to be leaders over the flock… it’s the sr. pastors that’s going to have to give an account to God for the leadership and direction in which the church went…. it’s good to have staff (associate) pastors within the congregation for the sake of building the ministry, however, God doesn’t speak to the staff (associate) pastors for the vision of the church, God speaks to the sr.pastors… God is not the author of confussion, therefore, He won’t speak to two heads, nor would he have two heads under one church…
as staff (associate) pastors we’re called to serve the ministry (you’re right on that one)...many are unaware of the calling…there are different callings for different seasons…sometimes God calls the staff (associate) pastor just for a particular season to serve the needs of the church… the problem many make is misinterpreting that seasonal call as a permanent calling…we have to pray and seek God’s face on the matter… I personally wouldn’t stay and fight the sr. pastor, that would be unchristian and God won’t bless me for that… God calls the sr. pastor to pastor the church…and if you’re a staff (associate) pastor and the sr. pastor don’t need your service…then the best thing to do for the ministry and for the sake of the church universally is to honor that pastors wish… when one door closes another opens… God bless you for being the staff pastor for 15 years…but in serving God there’s no sonority… we don’t own positions… our purpose is to glorify and worship God… not be caught up on positions or titles… the minute we start thinking that God needs us and nobody else could do our jobs, then we’re no longer serving God… when God says go we must pick up and go… and God would always speak to the sr. pastor only for the direction of the church… (He’ll confirm it in others, but He gives the vision to the sr. pastor)…
Peter on Tue, November 18, 2008
Kareem,
I agree with you to a point, but what do you do when the senior pastor at a church is not following scripture and you’re a staff member? And I agree that God isn’t the author of confusion which is why unity is so important. Even if there are many leaders at a church (whatever their title), there needs to be unity. If there isn’t then someone is not listening to God’s plans correctly.
From all accounts, it sounds as if these men tried to do the right thing and have tried to keep quiet now that they’ve been fired. I think it’s sad that any church comes to this, but am also thankful that we have better ways of catching people like this before hiring a new staff member. If I search for someone and find one church with trouble I probably would dig deeper (if I were on a search team) to find out what was going on. If there were multiple signs of trouble, I’d probably consider that all the warning I need not to pursue that particular avenue.
Definitely saddened that this happens in the church and that so many people want to point out the bad more than the good, but does this say something about the church in the US as a whole? Why aren’t we known for the good we do for those in our community rather than the scandals among the leaders?
April on Tue, November 18, 2008
Thank you James Lipton! I urge all of you to research this story before making judgements. Many of your positions are logical and come from a heart that wants to protect the church at large. However, you assume that this pastor is conducting himself in the right manner and that the people of the church have been acting against him.
This is not an issue of style, popularity, length of service, or power. At the heart of it, there are serious charges against a pastor that have yet to be heard by the church leadership. I do not believe that is even an issue between men anymore. Satan is using confusion among the people to take their eyes off the truth of the situation. He is turning brother against brother and sister against sister.
Please join me in continuing to pray for all involved.
Rev. Kareem on Tue, November 18, 2008
I agree Peter,
what do we do when the sr. pastor is off key? we pray and continue to pray for him… we never take matters in our own hand…. we’re not to form an aliance and seek to destroy the pastor… God said, vegenance is His… God never promised us that ministry was going to be easy… but He did promise us many trails and tribulations… the problem with many that serve in ministry is them not wanting to be troubled… many want a walk in the park on a hot summer day…but many times there’s going to be clouds and storms…
a major problem in our churches today is the want of everybody to be paid for the services they render… many feel, everytime they do something for the ministry then they’re entitled a handout (paycheck)… what ever happened to christians serving in ministry because of their love for God and for the health of the church? (this may be off topic)… I’m not sayin it is, but maybe the root of the matter isn’t the ministry but money… (staff pastors) denote they are paid… would there be complaints if the positions were volunteers?
and yes I agree, more attention and researsh should be done before a church calls a pastor… but many times those that are on the search committee are un-trained…and they look at how the pastor/preacher could preach and draw a crowd rather then his ability to pastor the church…
Theresa on Tue, November 18, 2008
I found this post and the responses last night, and am frankly appalled at the attitudes of some of the responders. Some of you need to change denominations, maybe even become Catholic or Methodist where you can be appointed to stay until moved by a higher authority in the church. (This is, of course, assuming you’re not of those faiths already.)
Leonard, for example - as a church member, I have the right to voice my opinions and to know what’s going on. I don’t check my brain or my right to free speech at the church door, and neither should anyone else.
Secondly, the pastor, any pastor, is human. He/she does not have a direct line to God that is any different than any other person. God doesn’t listen to my pastors’ prayers first or pay more attention to those prayers then He does mine because he/she is a pastor or a church leader. He/she puts their pants on one leg at a time like anyone else - and if their ego leads them down a road that is obviously wrong and/or fraught with problems, then someone/several someones should call them on it. Associate pastors and others, including members, should not be yes-men. Especially not just to stroke the senior pastor or leaders ego.
And, from experience, to expect a sr. pastor to always have the right attitude and actions is definitely the wrong assumption (see my points above.)
Rev. Kareem - no, the sr. pastor does not have a monopoly on visions for the church. God works through ALL members and leadership. The sr. pastor does not have the right to fire anyone for disagreeing with him/her - it’s likely/possible that God may be using that disagreeing member/pastor to draw back the church from the mistakes that the sr. pastor was about to lead them in to.
A church is made up of people, of differing beliefs and opinions/viewpoints. It is not a building, and not someone’s personal playground. Christianity is based on Christ’s forgiving your sins when you accept Him as your Savior. Period.
It is not based on slavishly following a certain person or belief, in closing your mouth or not voicing an opinion or being afraid to say “hold up a minute here,” how you voted in an election, and so on.
For some of the respondents, I would seriously make it a matter of prayer as to what you’re really doing as a pastor - it reads to me as if you’re more concerned about you having complete loyalty and command with your ministerial/leadership position than anything else.
Leonard on Tue, November 18, 2008
Theresa, this is not about checking your brains at the door or your rights to free speech. This is about how to approach the body, leaders with biblical conflict resolution. Your “freedom” is governed by standards and ethics found in bylaws, found in morals, found in scripture. Last I recalled you actually give up some of your “Rights” by following Christ.
As for what you have a right to know and what people have a duty to disclose, where is that in scripture. Where does it say, as a member you have a right to know… Common sense tells us that sometimes people are just not mature enough to handle information. It also tells us that sometimes it is just hurtful to give full information.
Logan on Tue, November 18, 2008
No matter who was right in their actions, one thing that most can agree on is that through these actions, Christianity’s name has been worsened. I pray that people will remember that people are just that…people. People make mistakes, some greater than others. I hope that these pastors personal lives will not be harmed by these events. The same goes for Mark. Lets just keep praying for the better.
lulu on Tue, November 18, 2008
from what i have read, it seems that this church just baught itself a pack of trouble, and it probially will no stop untill the new pastor is gone, he seems to be on an ego trip, and if he is not stopped he will take that part of the body of christ down if they are no careful, i have seen it happen more than once,it seems to me he is used by the enemy to destroy churches, if i,m wrong god forgive me , but if i,m right god help the people.
Rev. Kareem on Tue, November 18, 2008
Todd post was in accord to what would you do if you found yourself in the situation, not attended to be a attack on this pastor’s identity…
Theresa
if the church operated with everybody voicing their opinions on how the church should operate then there would be nothing but confusion… that’s why officers are elected into positions…
yes, you do have the right to know what’s going on and voice your opinions…that’s why the church has quarterly meetings (depends on the church)… those meetings are designed for the purpose of opening the doors to everything that’s done within the church… that’s the time where one voice their opinions… to interrupt a service where the center of one’s attention should be focused on God is wrong and out of order…no matter what was done…
Many have a tainted view of ministry… and leadership in particular… nobody said the staff (associate) pastors are to be yes-men… yes, they have a right to voice their opinion to the pastor… (That should be done in the staff meetings with the pastor)… many staff (associate) pastors feel they don’t have to answer to the sr. pastor… when this is done, the sr. pastor isn’t a sr. pastor he’s simply a hired preacher… if you have the mentality that everybody is to be yes men then your thinking is wrong from the start…
This is a huge problem with churches today in America… nobody could tell the layaity what to do…they’re educated and feel they know what to do… they feel like they don’t have to give an account to the sr. pastor… yes, God listen to your prayers just like He does the sr. pastor…but God gives the vision for the church to the sr. pastor not the layaity… God calls the sr. pastor to pastor the church, not for the church to pastor the pastor… if God worked according to how you perceive, then you’ll have a church with everybody with a vision and the church would be going in 100 (depends on the size of the congregation) different directions…
my prayer are with you… if you don’t like the way the church is ran, then you have a right to go to another church… (not stay and cause contention…) I’ve seen this time and time again…that pastor isn’t going to run me from this church… I’ve been here for 30 years and been serving in this position of 29 years… if anybody is going to leave its the pastor… that’s a bad mentality…. and a person that thinks like this heart isn’t right…
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