Mark Driscoll on the Trends in Worship Styles
- Posted on January 30, 2007
- Viewed 1673 timess
- (37) comments
“I’ll be happy when we have more than just prom songs to Jesus sung by some effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar offered as mainstream worship music. Right now most worship music is still coming from the top down through such things as Christian radio and record labels. But the trend today in a lot of churches is writing your own music to reflect your culture and community, and I pray this trend of music from the bottom up continues.”
SOURCE: RockWorship.com… read more here.
TAGS: Worship; Worship Music; Mark Driscoll
FOR DISCUSSION: What do you think of Mark’s comments? Agree or disagree? What do you think worship music will look like in most churches (or in your church) in five years?
In a recent magazine interview Mark Driscoll was recently asked: "What trends in church and worship styles do you see? Are they positive or negative?" You might (or might not) be suprised by his response... (Mark ALWAYS has a way with words)...
Comments
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Bruce on Tue, January 30, 2007
Hey Leonard,
I here ya on the masculine issue…...........I have met my share of wimpy men over the past 30 years. Men who refused to be men. Men who refused to lead.
But, I do think some of our “what is a man” tends to be culturally based and sometimes how we judge a man is based on our own cultural and personal experiences.
Many a soft spoken, quiet man has been accused of being “light in his loafers”
I am lover of sports. Any, all. If it has a ball I am inclined to watch it. Yet, I despise boxing, WWF, etc…......any so called sport where the express purpose is to maim the other guy. I used to hunt and fish….....but now I prefer to shoot with a camera. My dad was a gun dealer so we had lots of guns in our home. All kinds. I shot virtually everything imaginable. Yet, I own no guns today.
I cry over a good movie. The poverty and plight of others move me to tears.
My point is…...........even a guy like me, a big guy, burly guy, 6ft guy, who still thinks he can kick your ____
guy, has traits that some in our culture would consider “sissy”
To me a real man is one who loves his family and puts them first. A real man is one who will sacrifice for others. A real man is one who will stand firm when he needs to, even to his own harm. If such a guy is soft spoken, hates sports,and doesn’t hunt/fish/trap he is still a man to me. It is a matter of character rather than culture.
I think real men have hair on their chest AND Back http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif and only sissies shave off all their hair or get a wax job http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Just a joke…...........but it is my lame attempt to show my generation’s cultural bias. We don’t like the metrosexual look…......
I know I am just rambling…........
Bruce
josh r on Tue, January 30, 2007
Does today’s contemporary Christian music do a good job of showing the full character of God? I think it does a good job of showing is love, but does little to show is Wrath.
Pastor Mark likes to lift up the Christ of Revelation 19:16. He says men have trouble worshiping a God that they could beat up. I think you could listen to Christian Radio for a long time before this aspect of God’s character would be
He is a bit harsh, but it is true that there is a void. Notice that he is asking for something more that the mushy love song music that we have now. He doesn’t say that the mushy love song stuff needs to go away. It is just portrays too narrow of a view of God.
DanielR (a different Daniel) on Tue, January 30, 2007
I agree that the characterization of “some effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar” is un-called for and out of line. But then, that’s nothing new from Mark. With Mark it’s 50/50 whether it was unintentionally or purposefully inflamatory, ignorance or attitude. You gotta take anything Mark says with a grain of salt, look past the rhetoric for the real meaning.
As for wanting more original music from the bottom up, I couldn’t agree more. I wish our worship leader would sing more original material. I know there’s plenty. Although I’m sure Mark still wouldn’t like it because she’s an “effeminate” girl with an acoustic guitar.
Leonard on Tue, January 30, 2007
Bruce, I hear you. I think there is a difference in being a real man and being masculine. I have no trouble with a guy who loves his family and cries and the things that make God cry. I have wept many times over real life hurts and hope I never stop. I also know that my burliness is not the measure of my being a real man. God forbid that I measure a real man by the standards of our world.
But as a guy I was constantly told to sit still and be quiet. Don’t run; hold hands with the guys next to you, sing songs with words that mean sex in every other place but the church, listen to messages about Jesus as my lover and how to be intimate with him. I was told that my masculinity had to be boxed each Sunday and that that if I didn’t like it I wasn’t a real man. Truth be told, if I was not a pastor, I would not go to 99% of the churches I have spoken at over the years.
We set out to build a church men would love. Not by banging drums and bashing women but by choosing words that men get without having to adjust their homophobe antenna. We choose to stay away from words that present God and our relationship with God in a more feminine light. Our décor is distinctly male. No flowers, food in the doorway, humor, video and tech, excellence and huge dreams and challenges, causes that make our hearts ache. This is the kind of church we have and we have it because we did it on purpose.
One lady came to me recently and said, “Pastor, do you know why I come here?” I asked her to tell me. She said, “I come here because this church makes my husband a better father and husband.” That is enough for me.
I believe the church has lost its masculine spirit and as such for years mocked guys like me who love the outdoors and are a bit burly. It said for me to be a real man I had to cry, I had to be intimate, I had to sit still, I could not laugh, run, play and pretty much be like the woman next to me, only with more facial hair. It never appreciated my lust for adventure, for battle, for creativity, for a reason to die, fight, live and love. That is why Driscoll does not offend me. He can say the stuff he says without being hard on people.
Daniel on Tue, January 30, 2007
Just a note to Josh about Driscoll’s “men have trouble worshiping a God that they could beat up”… Have you noticed the irony of this?? God did get beat up. Crucified, in fact. And as disciples of the crucified God, this should affect our definition of manliness.
That being said, all that’s been said above about the church recovering its ‘manliness’ (which I assume simply means balancing the womanliness with manliness, rather than eradicating femininity altogether…) seems appropriate. Testosterone is of God. As is beer and a good hike. Both male and female bear the image of God, and our churches would do well to hear this.
And theology plays a role in this (sorry folks, you can’t escape it). Reformed theology, with its emphasis on a satisfaction (read penal substitution) theory of the atonement makes it very easy to preach on so-called ‘wrath’. Triumphalist dispensational eschatologies also do the same thing with their emphasis on the so-called ‘second coming’ (Jesus was meek and lowly the first time, but he’s coming back to kick your butt!). Our theology inevitably shapes how we speak of God, and how we speak of God will inevitably be interpreted as more ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’ by congregants. Of course, this leads to a good healthy debate about what ‘true’ masculinity and ‘true’ femininity are. And that’s always a fun road to go down…
My two cents.
-Daniel-
Josh R on Tue, January 30, 2007
Daniel wrote:
Yes, God did get beat up, but it was by his own choice. We had no power that he didn’t give us. It would be silly to worship a God who was powerless over man. As the hymn goes:
Generally I find Driscoll to be a pretty balanced preacher. He gives equal credence to every scripture, dismissing none. He uses a lot of humor and uncomfortable truths when he approaches topics that people tend to have preconceived notions about. He doesn’t dwell on the contrarian stuff though. When he preaches about God’s love and Grace, it had brought me to tears more than a few times.
Driscoll is preaching on Ruth right now, and his series has been very good so far. Audio and video are both available on the website each Tuesday.
April on Fri, February 16, 2007
Worship is not for us it’s an offering to God. I think when we start to get so critical about it we’ve lost the point. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for creativity and musicians writing their own music etc. I just think when we start to bash the music of our churches and say such harsh things that we’re becoming the Christians non Christians stay away from. We’re so busy criticizing the way the Church does everything it takes up all our time and energy we could actually be out spreading the Word of God. I guess we play right in the enemy’s hand this way. Bad or good music, I just want to worship my God.
Stewart on Mon, February 19, 2007
This is an interesting discussion for me. I’m new to Driscoll. I heard about him a long time ago. Listened to a podcast, got bored and let it go. I’ve listened again to the Ruth series, mentioned above. What’s interesting is that he misses an opportunity to be inflamatory in the series and totally misses the point of Ruth’s seduction of Boaz. Apparently no one ever told mark what “uncovering one’s feet” means in Biblical Hebrew.
The series is interesting though. There have been many moments where I have almost fallen out of my chair laughing while at the same time thinking, if I said that to my congregation, I’d be crucified for misogny.
I think in order to be a comic (which Mark is) you have to just let loose with the first thing to come into your mind. If you edit yourself in an attempt to be ‘socially appropriate’, you loose. You are no longer funny. Mark has a very traditional take on male/female relations and is very intolerant and dismissive of homosexuals (and their cousins… metrosexuals). I don’t think those are good messages or biblical messages, but something he is doing is reaching a ton of people who otherwise have decided that God is lame.
I think we are taking the rhetoric too seriously. It was meant to get a rise and a laugh and a bit of attention. I don’t think he’s gone so far as to characterize what he said as ‘hate’ speech. Perhaps I’d feel differently if I was more familiar. I read this as one of those… chuckle, chuckle… “I can’t believe he just said that” comments. Just a perspective from someone fairly new to Driscoll. It does make it interesting enough to make me want to listen again. Was it Wesley who said, “If you want to draw a crowd, set yourself on fire”? Or something like that?
Jan on Tue, February 20, 2007
I keep thinking of the really good worship that is out there, Baloche, Crowder and more.
Yes, there is namby pamby worship stuff produced, sold and used in our churches. Just as there has always been. I can think of hymns I would list in this category. And I grew up in the 70’s when there was so much junk out there I cringe to think of it.
It’s interesting to note that in our church it’s young single guys who are coming to Christ and into worship and we have an all girl worship team. It is effiminate, because we have no guy worship leaders to draw from. But it’s the guys out in the congregation I see crying while they worship. And they are changing their lives and drawing near to God.
And we are in gun shooting, country, where guys pride themselves on how manly they are.
I don’t think there’s a formula for worship. It’s a Holy Spirit moving thing. Yes, we need to be aware of what tools we use and how we use them. But ultimately, worship is about God and our relationship to Him, individually and corporately. And God can even use a woman to draw a guy into worship, and yes, even a feminine looking guy with okay music.
And when it comes down to what we will be singing in worship in 10 years, there will be lots of songs we cringe at. But I think we’ll still be singing “Blessed Be Your Name” and “How Great is Our God” and “Offering”.
mlouie on Mon, March 12, 2007
Just wanted to mention that I finally made another post on the article with J.Mac, for anyone interested in reading it. I was not sure if notification of my post went out because the article is very old. Thanks!
mlouie,
redeemed!
mlouie on Mon, March 12, 2007
I was not sure if the article link is available still, so I posted it below so that my last comment can be accessed. Thanks for the patience!
For His glory!
mlouie
http://mondaymorninginsight.com/index.php/site/comments/john_macarthur_on_vulgarity_and_grunge_christianity/P25/
pritchett4 on Wed, March 28, 2007
I wonder how David, the psalmist, would fare in this “real men do ... real men don’t” debate. He was a hunter, outdoorsman (spent a lot of time in caves), not sure if he fixed his own chariot, had a band of 600 warriors which he led, was the commanding general of the Jewish army, etc., etc. Yet read the psalms which he wrote in which he poured out his heart to God in devotion. I believe he also used a “stringed instrument” to play a number of his compositions. Also, how about John, the apostle. He was ready to call down fire from heaven as a young, immature man. In his later years, after the grace of God had worked in his life, he expressed a tenderness in his epistles. Seems to me that real men are truly able to express their love for Christ as well as for their wives (only one per man!).
Carole Turner on Wed, March 28, 2007
What is so funny to me is that when I saw this title I thought “ I should check this out to see if he gets a chick slam in there somewhere” and sure enough, he defended the cave man once more.
I gave a friend of mine the article he wrote about Alcohol. it was actually very good, I even put a link to it on my blog, but in true form he started it with the feminisation of the church in the early 1900 as the cause for the anti alcohol slant of Christianity. My friend called me and said, (without me telling her any of his past remarks) “this guy is such a male shovinist”! I snickered out loud and told her I was used to everything I read from him coming through anti-women-in-power glasses.
Her and I continued to talk about all the men we know that are good, God loving guys but their blind spot is their fear of women “Stuff”. They fear what they don’t understand and so they are blind to it. We still love them, think they have things of value to say, so we just have to know that Mark Driscoll may always be a male shovanist but that doesn’t mean he isn’t saying some good life changing stuff also.
Help Him Jesus and help us all.
mlouie on Tue, April 03, 2007
For anyone interested in the vulgarity and Mark Driscoll article… I finally posted a long reply to previous statements made by others. The link is:
http://mondaymorninginsight.com/index.php/site/comments/john_macarthur_on_vulgarity_and_grunge_christianity/P25/
ryan on Mon, February 11, 2008
“Okay, I admit to not being objective about this quote. But in my opinion, Mark Driscoll and this comment rocks! Although this is just one part of the issue, the style of worship music, worship lyrics, how many worship songs, how worship music is presented, what does the worship singer look like, how does the worship leader hold himself, etc. is one of the many reasons that men are bored stiff in church, why men are not challenged in church and why men are turned off and not coming to church. For churches to bury their head in the sand and say, “If men don’t like the music, then tough crap!” is the wrong answer. If we know that when a man comes to church, the family will follow, why aren’t we making churches a place that men feel welcome. I went to a church on Sunday that has made changes to target men. I not only saw a whole lot of strong men. I also saw a whole lot of happy women who love seeing men get excited and passionate about church.
Mike Ellis”
that’s quite a statement there, mike. i am a worship leader, and i do play guitar, and i have long hair, and oh my gosh…i even have earrings! but guess what, mike…about 1100 people come to my church on Sunday morning, and you know what? about 50 percent of those are men! and a lot of the biggest compliments and thank you’s that i recieve on a Sunday morning come from some of the most many men i’ve ever met, so i’m not quite sure where the assumption that churches are dying because “men” don’t like the music comes from, because i sure don’t see it happening.
however, if i could, for one moment, turn your argument around, i would say that this incredibly narrow version of what makes a “man” is part of the reason that so many men’s ministries miss out on attracting a large population of men (who, despite your definition of “man” are artistic, musical, writers, unathletic, and are still men in every sense of the word). why is it that all men’s events and study materials have to feature sports analogies, we have to hear sermons from football coaches, etc? you’re alienating a whole segment of the population, but i bet you don’t think you need to change what you do. you’d rather the church change it’s music to fit your idea of “manly.” what do you suggest we do, dress in flannel and sing “the lumberjack song”?
i know this comes across sounding harsh, but i just think we need to be careful about making assumptions that we know what all men should be like.
by the way, i’ve read “wild at heart”, and it was one of my favorite books, in terms of making me realize my place as a man, but it in no way made me feel like i needed to become a hunter, a sports fan, or a music hater, so where do we get off thinking that this is what a man is “supposed to be?” can someone enlighten me?
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