Secular Music… in Church!?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, September 22, 2005
- Viewed 148
- (35) comments so far
Let me ask everyone, what is secular music? Or what is Christian music? Hummmm.... you know, it does not exist. There is no such thing as Christian or secular music, there is only Christian or secular lyrics. Now, I believe that you must use great diserment, and common sense (common sense is not common!). I would not endorse playing Love Shack or something like that, but come on. What is wrong with some great "secular" music in church. Nothing in my opinion.
If your church is trying to be relevant or trying to reach a hell bound community or culture then you need to create an environment that will attract and capture their attention. Weaving great worship music and great known secular music is a wonderful way to create a great worship experience. I don't endorse playing secular music or any type of music just to do it; be intentional and on purpose with your music/worship set. I also encourage everyone to be creative and adjust your style for change sake. This weekend we are doing a total acoustic set, and we are playing 2 classic worship songs, and 2 great secular songs. All the songs create a mood and guide the audience in a direction that we are trying to take them.
Did you catch that....don't miss it, it is my final point. Take people where they need to go, not necessarily where they want to go! That has been a huge part of my learnings in the past month or so. Don't quote me, that statement is way to good to be mine.
Do you agree? Do you use 'secular' songs at your church? Why or why not?
Gotta love Terry Storch! He’s posted a real winner today on a very controversial topic… why would anyone use a ‘secular’ song in a ‘church’ setting. (No one knows how to post a controversial post like Terry and myself!) Here’s part of what Terry wrote…
Comments
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Joseph Horan on Mon, September 26, 2005
I would offer a comment that it might not be okay to think of our congregations in terms of an audience. I do agree that our worship should be relevant and should be an open door to the lost world, however, we must not forget Paul’s exhortation to us in 1 Corinthians 14. Worship is for believers and we as ministers of worship must stay true to that focus. The song selection doesn’t matter as much as the intentional crafting of the service to lead God’s people into His throne room of grace so that they like the 24 elders in Revelation 4 can bow at his feet and cry Holy, Holy, Holy. If we accomplish this and keep our focus on creating worship for believers that is grounded in spirit and truth then Paul tells us that the natural result will be non-believers becoming convicted by the Spirit that is inhabiting the church’s praise and giving their lives to the Savior.
danny on Mon, September 26, 2005
couple of thoughts. anyone who has come to visit at your “church” would no doubt expect that you would be singing for the purpose of worshipping God. i’m not sure there is a need to provide “secular” songs for the sake of congregational singing. having said that, from a musician’s point of view, there is nothing more lame than hearing a well written “secular” song changed to make it “christian”. it is “cheesy” at best and robbing someone else’s creativity at worst. if there is a song by anyone from josh grobin to the rolling stones that works for a point you are trying to make, then rock on. use it and let it make it’s point. the audience/congregation will most likely be drawn to the relevancy of it and the point will be be welll made. but there is nothing less “cool” or “hip” than TRYING to be cool or hip. we can sing TO God any song that from our heart makes sense to sing to Him whether the song is classified “christian” or “secular”, and seekers will hopefully be exposed to God’s presence, some for the first time. but i’ve heard everything from “hosanna” for rosanna” to “lord, lift us up where we belong”. it’s not what the writer wrote and not what he/she meant. and, although you can certainly do it, it’s WAY uncool and we can rest assured that the crowd certainly knows that!! in the meantime, i’m rockin’ in worship to U2’s “all because of you”....i sure hope it’s “christian’, cause i’m diggin’ it!
Jeff on Mon, September 26, 2005
My two cents - if the intent is to honor Him and lead people to Him, should we really care what we use? Because, if we have that one purpose in mind at all times when planning a time of worship, then we won’t fall into Satan-made traps. We WILL have discernment.
For those who get hung up on the secular/sacred music arguement - if you are thinking (and fussing) about where something came from (and you can do the same about the people you are standing near that you don’t know), then YOU are not worshipping, and that’s not the music’s fault.
All a leader can do is guide. We can help you put your hand on the doorknob, but only you and Christ can open the door. (Metaphor over.)
Besides, even a leader can use “christian music” that is, IMHO, wrong. Example - I know of at least one song, written and performed by a Christian artist, that is theologically incorrect. Oops! There blows the whole “got to use ‘Christian’ music” idea!
Remember - know matter what we do as leaders, we can’t save people; only He can.
Peace.
Joe on Mon, September 26, 2005
grow up and get over yourselves.
Mike on Mon, September 26, 2005
Just a couple things to throw into the mix to keep in mind…
Because it was referenced a few times…Yes, God did use a donkey. But that was because of the disobedience of man. Clearly the exemption, not the rule. Let’s not make a theology out of something that has disobedience at its root.
Next, while Psalms is worship text that was once set to music it was never for those outside of Isreal. Let’s keep in mind that worship isn’t for those not in the kingdom as it is impossible for them to worship—yet. Now I will agree wholeheartedly that “God inhabits the praise of his people” therefore those whom God is drawing will find his presence attracting when in a true “worship” environment. But many will find his presence offensive and be driven away. As scripture is very clear that we are enemies of God, darkened in our hearts in our unregenerative states.
Finally, let’s keep in mind there are more persuasive passages that talk about worship not being connected to music at all but our sacrificing ourselves to God (Romans 12: 1 & 2). So we need to ask ourselves what kind of “music” do our lives play? Spiritual or Secular. In this context the secular has absolutely no value whatsoever. Could this give us any guidance when we think about music in church? Remember the “music” is about Him, not us, and not a seeker. The “us” part and the “seeker” part are utterly secondary and tirtiary in this equation.
john on Mon, September 26, 2005
Be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds , most teens are already becoming lukewarm and flip floppy without us making their life anymore complicated. We need to take a stand and not let the world into the church but reach the world with Godly things not entertaining the ungodly in our church!
David S on Mon, September 26, 2005
I quote from the article:
“All the songs create a mood and guide the audience in a direction that we are trying to take them.”
As I saw in a post above, the use of the word “audience” I think says it all. Replying that they *are* an audience and you hope that they’ll become a congregation is lame. The entertainment mentality in our churches today has so removed people from the true focus of worship that it’s scary.
How can a secular song, written from the flesh, about the flesh, to the flesh possibily ascribe worship to God? It cannot, no matter how one “twists” it. That’s because Galatians 5:17 says that
“the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another…” If they are in opposition to one another, it is Scripturally impossible for this to glorify God. And that’s not my opinion - if you don’t like it - take it up with the One who wrote it.
I can understand changing the lyrics - I’ve done that myself in days past. However, if you put “Christian lyrics” to “Purple Haze” even listening to the melody still invokes the thoughts and feelings of what we all experienced when we first heard that song.
The famous “bar tunes” that now have Christian lyrics don’t present that problem anymore - that is unless you’re 250 years old and still drink in an old Irish Pub….
I think we’re treading on very dangerous ground when in an effort to be “relevant” to our “audience” we compromise basic biblical teaching. There are other ways to be relevant without pointing people back to the flesh.
Thomas R on Mon, September 26, 2005
Have we all forgotten something? What is a “House of Worship” for? Worship! Who are we to “Worship”? God! (Not some lyricist/artist whose words we mutate.)
Church is a “House of Worship”, not a “House of Outreach” (or heaven forbid, a House of Non-Offenders).
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying outreach has no place in our church buildings, just that Worship is what we as Believers do for God, not for increasing membership.
I’ve played in secular bands and Christian bands. NO ONE IS FOOLED just because you change lyrics! Besides, to start with your intent was to connect to their “familiarity” with the original song, regardless of how “pure” you are singing it now. Even the old Hymn writers had the brains to admit that.
Yes, SOME (not all) hymn tunes came from bar songs, & popular tunes of the day, but name one that uses the original lyrics or even slightly altered? Even Amazing Grace comes from an ancient, probably Pagan, Scottish bagpipe tune. My point isn’t Secular versus Sacred…it’s Worship versus Witness.
You were supposed to have witnessed to these “audience” members BEFORE they came in your doors, not while other Believers are trying to worship God! But there is the problem. It’s much more comfortable to stay in our own little “Christian” worlds & leave the actual witnessing to Sunday morning worship songs. Make them come to us. That’s what Jesus did, right? He never left the Temple grounds in 33 years, right?
Now, before you (whoever “you” you think I’m addressing) attack me for claiming you don’t witness outside church or don’t invite people to church, realize I am just trying to state a point and ask that you consider my question: Why are we more concerned with witnessing & entertaining DURING WORSHIP than actually Worshipping? Those of you that believe in mixing all styles, artists & lyrics in Church - you even show (possibly unintentionally, but it’s still there) in your postings that the PRIMARY focus isn’t on Worship - it’s on getting & keeping the unsaved in church. (Quick!!! There’s someone leaving over on the left! Play AC/DC’s “Hell’s Bells” as “Heaven’s Bells” so they stay!!)
Oh, & on what is Worship - as was stated in a post above, Worship is NOT just music. We are commanded to worship God in EVERYTHING we do, not just in music!
God created all things, so a “style” of music is not evil just because it has a certain beat, or simply because we want to think it is. But hear me on this - all things can be used for bad & evil - it is up to us. We could argue for weeks on whether taking an obviously Pagan song from a blatently Pagan band & “Christianizing” it is okay/wrong. Ultimately the individual has to put that song & the issue before God’s Word & decide for himself. Just remember to hold it up to God’s Word, not just your personal opinion.
I’ll leave you with this thought that has been growing in me for several years now. Remember, I am a Christian, a musician, a member of a church Praise Team and I’ve even worked in the Christian music industry for longer than I care you remember: It is appearing more & more to me that these “Contemporary Services” are more about the musicians & entertaining than about leading people in MEANINGFUL worship of God. (Note: it might be “cool” on stage to sing three words over & over for 5 minutes, but it is distracting & annoying to many if not most of the congregation. Trust me, I have yet to find a congregational member that likes that.) I guess if you can’t get signed as a recording artist or you don’t like touring you can always get a job being the musicial entertainment at a church.
I know there are true seekers of God in these Bands/Teams, but they seem to be fading away in place of the “anything-I-say-is-for-God-is-okay” & “let’s-push-the-boundaries-of-what’s-Christian” musicians. Change can be good, but then the Angel of Light wanted a change too, don’t forget.
Okay, flame away, & God bless! http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Joe on Mon, September 26, 2005
hey guess what, worship is not about whether or not a congregational memeber LIKES it or not. It isn’t about what you or I LIKE either. It is about what God likes. Humbling isn’t it? By the way, if you check out your bible you might see that in the Psalms they repeat the same lines over and over again when they praise God. It’s pretty crazy. I bet that is what God likes because obviously the congregation doesn’t like it.
joe on Mon, September 26, 2005
I guess we should stop doing what the congregation likes and start doing what God likes
Joseph Horan on Mon, September 26, 2005
I think alot of the comments are right on. I see a motif developing that it doesn’t matter quite so much “what” we use as much as “how” it’s used in worship. I find this same point in Micah when God is admonishing the priests for offering lame, sick, and unfulfilling sacrifices. Perhaps it doesn’t matter as much what we do in worship as in how we present it. I, too, and uncomfortable in “rewriting” secular to make them Christian. I don’t think its wrong, in fact my best friend loves it. I just feel the same as some of those who have said as musicians it comes off as lame. I think we can do better. If we like the beat and the hook of a song, but have to rewrite the lyrics to accomodate our worship theology, then I think that our worship theology itself is flawed. We shouldn’t be using any music within our congregational worship just for the sake of the beat or the melody line. That same principle applies to any other element of worship, whether it’s drama, scripture reading, proclamation, exhortation, video, interior design, lighting, etc. Every thing must be done because it primarily reflects the glory of our Maker and points us to Him, and secondly because it is presented in a way that excellently leads the body in a steady flow of spiritual story that speaks grace, peace, and the gospel into our beings.
sd on Mon, September 26, 2005
it’s about the message and it can be played to many tunes. A non christian message will not draw non christians to Christ. I don’t believe non christians need to hear what they hear on secular radio to draw them because the Holy Spirit draws them. I do believe you can us all types of music in church as long as it glorifies Him. I believe different churches have different flavors. Pick your flavor.
G. on Tue, September 27, 2005
Our youth went to see Apologetix in concert several years ago and it was awful. Not that the band couldn’t play well or sing well, they did. But EVERY song they played was a re-make of a secular song. Guess what our youth did as they sang their words? They sang the original words that they already knew. They could not have cared less to listen to the new words or try to make out what they were. It was futile and the majority of our youth did not enjoy it. As for our youth ministry we only allow “Christian” music on trips and at our church. Some people may think that’s rather extreme, but my husband and I have been convicted about the power of music (lyrics) and its influence on people, especially youth. They listen to secular music all of the time. It’s on the radio, in the malls, etc… and the majority of lyrics ARE NOT glorifying to God. We do not need to allow that to be played when they are at church, in worship or on a retreat. There is a ton of exceptional (& original) Christian music out there (every style imaginable) that one does not have to resort to secular music for enjoyment or to try and change the words to make it “Christian”. Meditate on things that are pleasing to God and that will edify the person in their walk with Christ. Meditating on secular lyrics simply will not make that happen. So many Christians have simply lowered the bar (and it wasn’t their bar to set in the first place).
Robert Stahr on Wed, September 28, 2005
Why should the devil have all the good music. Well, he doesn’t, never has and never will. So why do I want to bring his garbage into the house of God. Call me narrow minded if you want, but before I gave my heart to the Lord in Dec. 1984, I played Rock N Roll and C & W music for a living. And I made a very good living indeed.I played with big name people, names you would recognize, maybe if your old enough. My point, is I am dead to sin, and I do not live in it any longer. It is time for the church to get rid of all this seeker sensitive non sense and get back to the basics. Judgement I believe has reached our shores in the form of Katrina and Rita, and we had better wake up.
Peter Hamm on Thu, September 29, 2005
Robert,
I’m so glad that Jesus didn’t abandon “seeker sensitive nonsense” when he came to save us. He wasn’t just seeker sensitive. He was a friend of sinners. Don’t you think that IS the “basics.”
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