What do YOU think is the biggest problem in American Christianity Today?
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, April 06, 2009
- Viewed 113
- (48) comments so far
Personally, I do see his point. However, I would differ with who he would say is the root of the problem, because I think he has communicated over the years that it’s pretty much everyone but him. 
What do you think? Is MacArthur right on this one, or dead wrong?
Todd
Take a look at this for a couple of ideas. Then I'd love to hear your own. Do you agree or disagree?
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CS on Mon, April 06, 2009
Dave:
“CS: “Believe in Jesus” is not a biblical answer? Someone better tell Jesus! He pushed the idea numerous times! Oh, and while you’re at it, better tell John, Paul and Peter too, because evidently, they’re confused as well.”
Not to sound too Clintonian, but it all depends in your understanding of, “believe.” For example, an atheist believes that Jesus was a historical figure. Is that enough for salvation? Obviously, no. Or a Mormon believes in his, “Jesus Christ,” as well, who is the spirit brother of the devil. Is that enough for salvation? No. Even the Bible says in James that the demons believe and tremble. But they obviously cannot be saved, either, even though they, “believe.”
So, when we have Romans 10:9 thrown around so casually, without the complete understanding of what, “believe,” means, it can set up false conversions. To make it personal, my dad believes in Jesus Christ, but then proceeds to live as an unsaved heathen, showing no sign of conversion. Aside from saying that he believes in God, there is no demonstration of his faith, since he continues living a lifestyle of sin, which makes me greatly worry for him.
If we want to use the word, “believe,” that’s fine. But qualify it with the repentance and faith that such a belief requires, in submitting ourselves to our Lord. Don’t just make it a superficial belief and ignore all of the calls for repentance and faith in the Bible. That leads to false converts pretty quickly.
And this also goes to prove MacArthur’s point all the more.
—
CS
brandy on Mon, April 06, 2009
CS, ONE OF THE BIGGEST REASONS TO GET SAVED IS BECAUSE, I WONT BURN FOR EVER AND EVER IN HELL WITH NO END TO IT.I WANT BE TORTURED BY DEMONS FOREVER, AT LEAST THATS A GOOD START,
Brian L. on Mon, April 06, 2009
I think it’s kinda funny that he points out the need for expository preaching, even though there is not one example of such preaching in all of Scripture, including Jesus, nor is there any specific teaching in Scripture commanding anyone to preach that way…
BTW, I’m not AGAINST that kind of preaching - I do it myself most of the time. It’s just that there is no Scriptural authority or example of it, and therefore, cannot be held up as the only “right” way to preach.
Todd Rhoades on Mon, April 06, 2009
Again, to clarify on this one as well. I have nothing against John MacArthur. I hope he continues the work he feels God has called him to.
I also hope that all the people he thinks don’t do it right continue to do the work that they feel God has called them to.
But, I admit… that just seems too logical.
Todd
Al on Mon, April 06, 2009
The greatest threat to Christianity?
How about looking into every other church but our own to find out what they are doing wrong?
What I remember from James is that, we are to look at ourselves in the mirror, not our neighbor?
Just a thought.
Scott on Mon, April 06, 2009
I thought Todd’s comment was precise – Big Mac has spent the last 20 years or so castigating just about anybody who wasn’t him. I think he broad brushes those churches whose style he doesn’t like by assuming they are weak on Bible. I listen to, watch, and read a lot of the guys in his cross hairs, and I just don’t find it to be true.
CS on Mon, April 06, 2009
Brian L:
“I think it’s kinda funny that he points out the need for expository preaching, even though there is not one example of such preaching in all of Scripture, including Jesus, nor is there any specific teaching in Scripture commanding anyone to preach that way…”
Jesus opening the scroll of Isaiah comes to mind. He read the verses, only those verses, and then said, “Today this has been fulfilled.” Pretty expository if you ask me. =)
—
CS
jud on Mon, April 06, 2009
The biggest threat to Christianity is CHURCHIANITY and the veritable industry it has spawned. Attractional, Seeker friendly decisionism much like Burger King… “Have it your way” and it’s various spin-offs. Serving consumers, heck I know of one church that has refered to people as consumers, instead of the work of making disciples.
jud on Mon, April 06, 2009
I know of people who stand in pulpits, excuse me on stages, and openly mock the church of their youth… then turn around and get ruffled when someone like John MacArthur shines the revealing beacon on their church model.
Todd Rhoades on Mon, April 06, 2009
CS -
Jesus also ate with tax collectors and sinners, and preached from a boat. But I don’t hear anyone saying that you need to preach in a boat filled with food and prostitutes to be biblical.
Just sayin…
(Not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Todd
Dave Z on Mon, April 06, 2009
CS, I understand that your push for repentance has scriptural grounds, but your arguments create other problems. Where do we stop in specifying what must be done for salvation? My Church of Christ friends actually have a list of (IIRC) 7 things, including believe, repent, be baptised, confess, remain faithful and whatever others, with some sort of scriptural basis for all of them. When does that list turn into works? You say salvation requires repentance, but isn’t repentance a work? Is my salvation conditional on repentance? If so, how long do I have to demonstrate repentance before my salvation becomes effective? After all, repentance is a turning away from sin. How long does God wait to see if I have truly turned away? And if I repent (change direction) for a time, but then go back to sin, do I lose my salvation? If salvation requires repentance, and I keep sinning, am I saved? Is my salvation dependant on “being good?” Church of Christ guys say they lose their salvation everytime they sin, and they are lost again until they confess and repent.
You know, I’m a lot different than I used to be. I don’t act anything like I did back in the day. I seem to have repented pretty well. Something I can be proud of! Except of course for Eph 2:8,9.
As I see it, the simplest and clearest example of salvation is shown in Luke 18, in the story of the tax collector. The guy recognised God, he recognised his own sin and he recognised his need for mercy. And evidently, that was enough - he went home justified.
We could get into the whole election/free will/ perseverance debate, (if God elects me, can I “veto” his election by not repenting?) but this is not the time nor the place. My point is that these issues have been debated in the church since it began, by very Godly, Spirit-led people (Paul and James, for example), and yet the tension remains. Maybe it’s wise to not be so quick to assume we have all the answers and the one true perspective, and then castigate anyone who doesn’t agree.
I just don’t think God has given me the authority to decide who is a true convert and (especially) who is not. I am just another fish in the net (Matt 13:46-49) as are you, John MacArthur, Rick Warren, and everyone else. Just imagine the net full of fish, pointing their fins at each other, bubbling out judgments, when it’s not, and never has been, up to them. Pretty silly.
Tye Male on Mon, April 06, 2009
There is something about Dr. MacArthur that rubs me wrong every time I hear him. I wish this weren’t true. That aside…
MacArthur believes that HIS style of preaching is the ONLY kind that is legitimate. That takes some balls, oops, audacity. (reference other MMI material this week)
I think he is wrong. The biggest problem with Christianity today is the communicators of it fail to be relevant (o my) with the people who are hearing the message.
The next biggest issue is the “love factor.” We HAVE to love our neighbors and figure out how to demonstrate that love in a way that builds relationships where we can share the hope of Jesus Christ in a natural, relevant way.
CS on Mon, April 06, 2009
Dave:
You asked a lot of good questions about my conviction surrounding repentance. Rather than quote the whole thing, I’ll hit the highlights.
I believe repentance and faith are those actions that happen in response to Christ’s work, and should be used in response to the question, “What must I do to be saved?” It was the same response Peter gave at the beginning of Acts. It was the same thing that Christ said at the beginning of his ministry (Mark 1:15, Matthew 4:17). And it was in the Great Commission’s charge (Luke 24:47). The theme of repentance and faith is consistent and truly biblical.
The act of repentance and possession of faith is a supernatural gift from the Holy Spirit as well, and not a work. If we treat them as works, then we could say, “Yes, my repentance and faith got me into Heaven,” which goes against Ephesians 2:8-9. But, no, repentance is something again where God gets the credit (John 6:44).
This repentance is a supernatural act that will cause a man to turn away from sin and want to stay away from it. We will still sin, mind you (1 John 1:9), but we will not live in a lifestyle of it (1 John 3:8). And when we sin, we confess our sins and continue in the ongoing repentance and faith in our lives.
As for your CoC friends, that teaching is unbiblical. That really sounds like a works-based faith like Catholicism.
Summing all of this together, do you see how there is so much confusion with people understanding what happens with salvation, and why MacArthur’s explanation for what is wrong has such validity?
And, Todd, I’ll be standing in my boat with an assembly of sinners. =)
—
CS
Al on Mon, April 06, 2009
Todd,
“But I don’t hear anyone saying that you need to preach in a boat filled with food and prostitutes to be biblical.”
I would say that Todd has just introduced a new Paradigm Shift in the contemporary church!
Brian L. on Mon, April 06, 2009
CS - that sermon isn’t your typical “expository” sermon as JM would say is the ONLY real preaching. Also, He WAS the sermon! http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
If you were to read some of the textbooks I have on what expository preaching is supposed to be, Jesus would have flunked the course. His sermons were topical and application oriented in every case that comes to mind right now. I might be wrong, but I can’t think of any examples that contradict them.
Also, I need to apologize to the group. I began nit-picking JM, and this is exactly what he does to others and what I deplore. Please forgive me for this oversight on my part, and I’ll drop that part of the conversation.
As for what I think is the biggest problem in the church today, in my opinion it is that we are not helping people become doers of the word. We’re heavy on information and very light on application in sermons, Bible study, small groups, etc.
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