What the @$&*? Ed Young Swears to Prove a Point: Don’t Swear
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Tue, June 02, 2009
- Viewed 258
- (67) comments so far
1. I would ask Ed… Is it necessary to curse in an admonition to other pastors not to curse? Did he not do that to grab our attention? Is that not EXACTLY the SAME THING that he accuses pastors who curse of doing? I mean… what the hell? (There I did it… please don’t do that… it’s not necessary).
2. I find it somewhat ironic that Ed Young would get on pastors for doing something because it was ‘cool’. I think Ed is the epitome of ‘cool’. That’s kind of his reputation. No, it IS his reputation. Over the top cool. Something’s not right with that cool.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Ed’s ok. I just find it funny that one area he feels ‘very strongly about’ is that of language.
Anyone else find it ironic?
This should be fun. Watch this by Ed Young, Jr.
A couple of ironies here for me... really...
Comments
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Randy Wood on Wed, June 03, 2009
First of all i am a nerd http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif Actually i am who I am. Yes, I cuss. Behind the pulpit? Not anymore. At home right after my son almost tore the door off my Tundra by backing into a tree with the door open? Yep!Does that make me two-faced? Yep. I pastor and work two other jobs. As i am “in” culture i guess my ears are more accustomed to hearing all kids of “salior language”. However, i dont cuss with them, why? because for the same reason i don’t gossip with them, over eat with them, smoke weed with them… but i am still with them. They do see a difference in me, not “cool” just relational (a good ole new church word)
I love trends, twitter, facebook, text, rock music, rap music, country music, jazz, blues… but I am not trying to be cool. I love culture and embrace it. I try my best to look at it through the eyes of the Holy Spirit… But i can not stand “churchy words” tHAT, IS PASTORS TRYING TO BE “RELEVANT” TO OTHER PASTORS.
I agree with Ed. We need to chill on the cussing thing. But NEVER EVER judge the one that is in process of change.
rs powerleveling on Wed, June 03, 2009
I am looking..
Jonny Smith on Thu, June 04, 2009
Job,
Your halo is on too tight. Might want to have someone look at it.
There are multiple examples in the Bible of strong language used. Paul telling the Galatians to cut off their (insert word here… I don’t want to offend you). Paul saying he counts it all dung…. there are phds who say this word is best translated s**t. etc. etc.
Cussing is stupid to be cool. (A deeper issue here is perhaps cool and relevant might be an idol to some, in the sense of them desiring coolness more than God.) Ed Young shouldn’t be upset with people chasing cool in all avenues since that is what his ministry is built on. It’s kind of like someone blowing up the dam and then being upset that the town is flooded.
It is ridiculous at best for you to say the Bible defines what is a profane word and what is not, (save in some instances such as taking the Lord’s name in vain and destructive language against my brother). You should study the Scriptures and learn the difference between a principle and a law. You seem to want to make laws where there are none (like a group that Jesus usually talked mean to). You might just be a Pharisee in confusing holiness and the keeping of your rules (which you claim everyone should know).
My question to you is this: on what basis do you claim that something like, “sucks, pissed, screwed, etc. etc. etc. is wrong?
Joshua on Thu, June 04, 2009
A little etymology for several words would be in order here.
1) Swearing is something done to prove that one is telling the truth. For instance, you swear on the Bible in court that your testimony is correct. This is condemned by Jesus because your words should always be truthful.
2) Taking God’s name in vain is always wrong. This is one of the 10 commandments.
3) Cursing, or cussing as it has evolved into, is pronouncing or wishing ill on someone. Curses take place a lot in witchcraft, animism, and religions of that nature. To curse someone might in effect be, “Go to h—-.” Or “D—- you.”
4) The Bible condemns all of the above and also words that cut down others and do not build them up.
Now, how about a little exposition?
Ephesians 4:29 tells us, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.” What is the unwholesome talk? That which does not build others up.
First Peter 2:1 “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.” All kinds of speech that does harm to others. (After that video, hypocrisy might be something you want to study.)
James 3:9-12 summarizes the issue: “With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.” So this passage condemns words that hurt people, words that curse people.
Why am I advocating for slang, scatological, gutter-humor words? Because these are not the same as what is condemned in the Bible, and furthermore, these things can do what is commanded of in Ephesians 4:29.
If I tell someone that their life is going to be s**t if they live for something beside Jesus, as Paul did, would that not edify and build up my brother by making him want to jettison the sin he is living for?
If I tell someone life s*cks without Jesus, if I tell someone that Pharisees and hypocrites p**sed Jesus off, and this gives my brother a better understanding of who Jesus is and brings him closer to Jesus (edifies), this fulfills Ephesians 4:29.
May I go further and say that if you do not use strong language in calling sin what it is, if you do not warn your people of evil men who would lead them astray with strong language, you may inadvertently be cursing them?
Maybe what offends the white, middle-class members of your Bible-belt church, is something that Jesus can use. Maybe you need to remove your non-expository suppository.
Peter Hamm on Thu, June 04, 2009
Joshua,
I have to fault you for your exegesis. You say “What is the unwholesome talk? That which does not build others up.” Sorry, that is not the whole of the definition of unwholesome talk. Using scatalogical or what is considered “crude” talk, like saying your life is **** without Jesus, is unwholesome talk. Yes, it appears Paul used a word like this to describe what everything else besides following Christ is… and he used this word ONCE. To pepper our speech with such crude terms is not really following the examples that have been set for us.
Although I disagree with Job on a great many things, you’re reaching here… too far I think.
Adam McLane on Thu, June 04, 2009
Holy cow, as exciting as this debate about language use is… can I just fast-forward you all a bit? You’re eventually going to agree to disagree, we’re going to call this a grey area/personal preference thing, everyone is going to shake hands and love one another.
Let’s get back to the irony. Ed Young, the king of “I want to be a cool pastor” who made the Woop Bass video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-FiTJgL2k] just a year ago is trying to lecture pastors to stop trying to be cool!
Of course, the irony is triple when he grabs his Flip video camera in traffic and pulls a complete Ashton Kutcher. “I am so cool, I can imitate someone cool while telling people to stop being cool!” This would be like Pat Robertson telling people they shouldn’t judge from the pulpit. Or Joel Olsteen saying we should be humble in picking a church building. OK, get back to the debate. I’m still waiting for someone to bring up that Paul cussed. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
JOB on Thu, June 04, 2009
May I go further and say that if you do not use strong language in calling sin what it is, if you do not warn your people of evil men who would lead them astray with strong language, you may inadvertently be cursing them?
This is priceless, now we have a position that is teaching the failure to swear can be disobeying God. I think I’ll keep my halo on annoying as everyone finds that to be.
Now what was it that I said that started this and the bigger question is why do commenters that talk real tough never call when I email them with my #? Peter do you know why?
JOB on Thu, June 04, 2009
That top paragraph should have been in quotes.
Joshua on Thu, June 04, 2009
sap-ros’: rotten, i.e. worthless (literally or morally)
Peter,
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth but that which is good to the use of edifying that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
No corrupt communication except that which edifies. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that we can infer that corrupt communication here refers at least to that which does not edify. Now, if you want to go farther and say it includes more than that (which the context does not suggest), than go ahead. But logically, you are going farther than the passage suggests.
If you can show other passages that condemn slang, scatological humor, etc. than maybe you could infer that, but I don’t see any other passages that do that, do you?
So who is going farther than the passage suggests?
Also, no one is suggesting the use of peppering our everyday language with crude terms. I am arguing against a blanket statement that crude terms have no place in a Christian’s vocabulary.
Joshua on Thu, June 04, 2009
lol.
Job,
PLEASE COMPLETE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT:
God loved Paul’s sins of potty mouth so much that he included them in Scripture because…....
Thanks for your time.
Peter Hamm on Thu, June 04, 2009
Job writes,
“This is priceless, now we have a position that is teaching the failure to swear can be disobeying God. I think I’ll keep my halo on annoying as everyone finds that to be.”
Job, this time, I might borrow that halo and wear it, too.
Joshua is assuming that since the Ephesians passage quoted tells us not to let “any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths”, and then implores us to speak “only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen”…
that anything that builds up others, regardless of whether it’s “polite” conversation, is wholesome.
Joshua, I say again, you go too far. Colossians 4:6 comes to mind. In fact, just the definition of the word “unwholesome” keeps me from thinking that Paul could possibly have meant that cussing and using foul language is okay if you’re “building somebody up”. (I can’t get to my greek dictionaries right now, so I can’t look up the passage and the word, but I’ll try to in a bit.)
Sorry, Joshua, you’re WAY reaching here. Too much logic, not enough reading scripture in light of other scripture.
And JOB, although I can legitimately make time in my day for discussions like this on-line, I simply can’t spend even more time in phone discussions with folks. I simply have to draw a line somewhere. These discussions sharpen me in my ministry, and frankly, even when we disagree, your perspectives help me a lot. I appreciate you very much. Although I disagree with you, I value your presence here more than you know. But long drawn-out phone conversations? Nope, can’t do it.
JOB on Thu, June 04, 2009
Joshua,
Dude, whatever, I really have no idea what exactly your arguing for: anyway the sermon I linked to dealt with Paul’s use of strong language, his explanation was what I teach, I was taught, my fatther was taught, and the generations before him. Somehow the gospel survived all these years without the use of filthy language in an attempt to make points with the culture. Obviously Ed Young Jr. feels the same way. Pastors are offending people with their filty language and need to stop, BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO: Christianity 101
Colossians 3:8
But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips
Joshua on Thu, June 04, 2009
Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
Peter,
“that anything that builds up others, regardless of whether it’s “polite” conversation, is wholesome.”
You are building up a straw man and then attacking him. If you look at my above post, you’ll see that being impolite (Websters=not polite, rude) would not build up other people and thus violates this verse and what Jesus has said.
Yet, using slang and strong terms is not rude or impolite to many people. (Just church people)
And again, did Paul have strong words for people? If that is so, does that mean gracious words do not necessarily mean “proper” words. I mean, good grief, Jesus told the Pharisees that they were children of the Devil, they were vipers, they were open graves…. Jesus told one church in Revelation that they made him want to throw up!!!
Maybe the church has gotten too politically correct. Maybe the liberal doctrine of non-offensiveness has crept in and Jesus has crept out.
Again, I am not saying we should go around shouting slang or cuss words, only that in some instances, it is perfectly acceptable to.
Joshua on Thu, June 04, 2009
Job, (I had presumed you were an old man. Now I know you must be a fundamentalist ....lol…...............joke…just kidding.)
Dude (?), we just established that there have been filthy words used by Paul so your whole argument is skubalon.
What I am arguing against is a blanket statement that strong language is never appropriate.
You say the Bible says so and you mention Colossians 3:8. Let me quote a commentary at length.
“Clearly, the Bible forbids something called aijscrologiva (aischrologia), “obscene speech.” Colossians 3:8 says, “But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech [aijscrologiva (aischrologia)] from your mouth” (NASB). The NIV translates the word as “filthy language.” The KJV has “filthy communication.” The ASV reads, “shameful speaking.” Luther, who is known for his affection for cussing, translates the word “schandbare Worte.”
The question is What does Colossians 3:8 specifically forbid when it tells us to put away aijscrologiva (aischrologia)? The word itself is made up of two Greek words: aijscrov” (aischros) meaning “disgraceful, shameful, dishonest,” and lovgia (logia), meaning “oracles.” In every use in the NT, lovgia (logia) refers to “oracles,” or the revealed message from God. It is not the word lovgo” (logos), which can refer to actual words themselves (Matt 12:36), a message (Matt 13:19), or speech in general (Matt 5:37). So, it appears that Paul is actually forbidding false prophesying.”
What else you got?
Peter Hamm on Thu, June 04, 2009
Joshua,
First, I really do appreciate you, really, so please do not interpret incorrectly the vigor of my debate with you.
I make no straw man. I merely propose that in your faulty exegesis of the Ephesians passage, you are ignoring the actual meaning of the word unwholesome. sapros (in the greek) certainly seems to me to more than imply “bad language”, possibly even “rotten” (as in spoiled food) language. BDAG tells us that in that particular passage, it means bad or unwholesome to the extent of being harmful.
Your conclusion remains, imho, faulty. That passage gives no license to use what our culture knows is “swear words” even to build someone up.
Later you say [What I am arguing against is a blanket statement that strong language is never appropriate.] I would agree with this statement, but it seems obvious from scripture that such language should be indeed very rare. After all, Paul ONLY uses his “cuss word” with other believers, and is never recorded as using such strong language with unbelievers. Telling, if not prescriptive.
Thanks for the discussion.
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