10 Things You’d Hate about John Wesley (and 10 Things He’d Hate About You!)
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, May 17, 2007
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- (58) comments so far
He rode 250,000 miles on horseback, preached 40,000 sermons, gave away ?30,000 and left behind 132,000 followers. A hero maybe, but is he someone better appreciated at a distance? You decide.
10 things you'd hate about John Wesley
1. Despotism ? Even Wesley's own preachers called him "Pope John". He ruled his followers like an enlightened despot, and his beloved brother Charles plotted to "break his power". John expected every Methodist society to follow his rules like a McDonalds franchise, and took personal charge over every member's private life, expelling them for laziness or selling spirits.
2. Superstition ? He saw rain storms as God's punishment on him - or the Devil's attack. He made decisions by opening the Bible at random for God's guidance, and even decided whether to marry by pulling bits of paper out of a hat.
3. Copyright ? Wesley was a plagiarist and pseudepigrapher - he passed other people's writings off as his own and his own as other people's. He got into trouble for ripping off an anti-American tract of Dr Johnson's. And he attacked a book by Toplady (of "Rock of Ages" fame) by publishing a cheap caricature of it at the same time under Toplady's name. Toplady denounced him as a common crook worthy of deportation to America.
4. Grief ? He didn't believe in it, as Christians should be happy when someone goes to heaven. "I believe the death of your children is a great instance of the goodness of God towards you," he told his sister. "You have often mentioned to me how much of your time they took up. Now that time is restored to you, and you have nothing to do but serve the Lord without carefulness and without distraction."
5. Drink ? He wasn't against alcohol, actually, unlike later Methodists. While he forbad spirits, he loved wine and beer, published home brewing tips and campaigned for real ale. He also allowed tobacco for medicinal purposes. But he discouraged Methodists from drinking tea, being a waste of time and money.
6. Charismania ? Wesley often reduced his hearers to ecstatic convulsions, screams and groans, fainting, beating the ground and uncontrollable laughter. He claimed exorcisms and healings, and once thought he might have raised the dead. You might like that kind of thing or you might not.
7. Narrowness ? After his evangelical conversion, he considered all non-evangelicals "almost Christians". Though one of the most devout believers alive before then, he had been "an heir of hell". In later years he mellowed a lot.
8. Women ? Despite great services to the role of women in church, even his greatest admirers admitted that Wesley had "an inexcusable weakness" for the prettily devout. Nothing sinister, but as a married man, his gushing and intimate letters to his circle of young female acolytes was neither good matrimony nor good pastoring. And his treatment of a quasi-fiancé ©n Georgia led to him jumping parole and fleeing the state at night.
9. Perfection ? Throughout his life, Wesley preached the thoroughly eccentric doctrine that Christians can be perfect, full of love and without sin. Later he came to see it as a miraculous sudden change, like salvation, though he was as surprised as anyone when Methodists started to claim it had happened.
10. Plain-speaking ? Wesley believed in the importance of pointing out others' errors and faults with utter candour. As "one of the greatest instances of friendship", he told an old friend whose only child was dying that she was the most spoiled he had ever seen, "Happy would it be for both her and you if God would speedily take her to himself!"
10 things John Wesley would hate about you
1. Money ? Wesley said that no true Christian kept any more than the basic "necessaries of life". He himself gave away up to ?1,400 a year, living on ?30, a worker's wage. Those who buy luxuries are "embezzling their Lord's goods, corrupting their own souls and robbing the poor".
2. Laughter ? Wesley did not much approve of laughter. He rebuked one of his preachers for being willing to "break a jest, and laugh at it heartily", and complained that even George Whitefield's conversation was "often mixed with needless laughter".
3. Laxity ? Wesley would be shocked by the lax standards of Christians today. He expected men and women to sit separately in church. To start a morning meeting after 5am was "giving place to the Devil". He expelled members for swearing and for playing football on Sunday.
4. Secular music ? Wesley didn't think Christians should listen to secular songs, and certainly not dance to them. One of his mining converts smashed up his fiddle when he became a Methodist. Wesley also had grave doubts about opera.
5. Clothes ? Wesley was very unhappy about Methodists wearing anything expensive, frilly or fashionable, and later regretted not prescribing a uniform for them. On the other hand, he insisted that they be as smart as possible: "Let none ever see a ragged Methodist". Just about the last nice thing he ever said to his wife was, "I still love you for your uncommon neatness."
6. Marriage ? Spouses are far too indulgent on each other for Wesley's liking. He told his travelling preachers that those with wives or families should keep going "as if they had none", just as he did himself. He told his wife that he was forbidden to "laugh or trifle a moment when with you". His theory of matrimony (expounded on a bad day, admittedly) was "You should have given me a carte blanche. You should have said, 'Bid me do anything, everything'."
7. Children ? Parents are far too indulgent on children too. In his Methodist school the timetable was from 4am to 8pm, with religious and physical exercises, including fasting, but no play: "He that plays when he is a child, shall play when he is a man". When he married, he planned to dump any children he had there permanently.
8. Foolishness during sleep ? If you've passed all Wesley's tests so far, do your hours of sleep also honour God sufficiently? "Is there no vanity or folly in your dreams? No temptation that almost overcomes you? And are you then as sensible of the presence of God and as full of prayer as when you are waking?"
9. Non-Methodism ? Wesley dismissed almost all other Christian groups. Non-Methodists in the Church of England he called 'almost Christians', non-conformist Protestant churches were in indefensible error and as for Catholics, "No Government ought to tolerate men of the Roman Catholic persuasion".
10. Methodism ? And finally, if you go to a Methodist church, you're definitely in trouble. Wesley insisted that all his followers always attend Anglican parish services, and never talk about having their own "ministers" or "churches". "When the Methodists leave the Church, God will leave them."
Steve Tomkins is the author of a new biography of John Wesley. He has written a fascinating piece on Wesley that I thought would be great to share here. You can read more at the Ship of Fools Website
Comments
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Todd Rhoades on Sat, April 09, 2005
Dean,
No, I’m an equal opportunity ripper of classic theologians, and I’m not Methodist. Watch for my new series called “Holy Cronies” where I take these men down one by one.
The previous paragraph was, of course, all garbage.
Sorry, it’s Saturday and I’m feeling a bit sarcastic. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Please re-read, Dean, and sense the intent and tone of the opening comments.
Thanks,
Todd
Pastor Al on Sat, April 09, 2005
Todd,
You said “Watch for my new series called “Holy Cronies” where I take these men down one by one.”
I hope you don’t.
May I suggest taking some of the great accomplishments of these men and asking the question, “What kind of faith is this, to endure so much, and remain so faithful?” and a good follow up might be; “How does our faith compare with the faith of those spiritual giants?”
I know it won’t be as “cutting edge” but it might be more profitable spiritually.
Blessings,
Pastor Al
Todd Rhoades on Sat, April 09, 2005
I give up! http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
The “Holy Cronies” thing… a complete joke.
Just when I thought I couldn’t be more clear with a tongue and cheek statement.
Let’s try this… on the count of three, everyone take a collective deep breath. Ready?…
1..
2…
3….
OK… at least I feel better.
For the record. I respect Wesley; and I don’t think ill of any theologians named in this posting. I’m not Methodist (although I do admit to once being Baptist). And I’ve never been to Boston in the fall.
Todd
Pastor Al on Sat, April 09, 2005
Ok! Man - you had me going on that last one… I will make my best effort to “lighten up!” http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/grin.gif
Take care Todd, and have a restful Sunday!
Blessings,
Pastor Al
rev-ed on Sat, April 09, 2005
Wow. I need more comments on my blog. Maybe I’ll just copy this post and get my own argument started! http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Todd Rhoades on Sat, April 09, 2005
Hey Rev-ed,
Greetings from a fellow UBer. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Yes, this subject will definitely get the comments rolling in! Seriously… I think I will write a post in the near future about “How to Tick-off a Pastor” (as there seem to be quite a few different hot buttons!) http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Oh well, it’s hard to read someone’s heart and their intent on a blog. I’m quickly finding that out.
Todd
RB on Sat, April 09, 2005
Personally, I’m with Lorrie; it’s encouraging to know that people are people in any generation - even those with great faith have great sinful natures. Isn’t it taking Wesley’s life ‘out of context’ to glean what we find acceptable today and try to hide the rest? How many of the great heroes of the Bible had perfect pasts? To me, the realism of the Bible stories is what helps remind me that they’re real!!
I’m getting so many valuable perspectives from your posts, Todd; and I LOVED the article today. It reminded me that even our heroes are human, and my flaws don’t prevent me from being used.
Keep up the good work!!
Archie Pennington on Sat, April 09, 2005
Dear Todd:
There is very little levity in this posting. We all have skeletons in the closet and a sin nature. One of the ways we know the Bible to be the true Word of God is that the writters show all their blemishes warts and all, along with the good charachteristics they had through following God. Wesley was no different. He was a great man of God who devoted his life to following Christ; it is easy to take “pot-shots” at him in today’s morally bankrupt society (that’s like the pot calling the kettle black).
I just don’t see the humor, levity, or socially redeeming value of this piece. We are too easily dismissing the character and efforts of yesterday’s servants to make our own effort seem good enough. I hope that if you attempt to achieve humor in the future, that you make sure the article has some.
rev jay on Sat, April 09, 2005
Just read the article and loved the humor of it. I am sure that when ‘Bro John’ was traveling around the countryside he was a very well meaning minister of God, righting wrongs as he was lead of the Lord. We too today do the same things with our members who are smoking or their hair is to long or they are listening to the ‘wrong’ music. They have to take some responsibility for their acts and we are to guide and let the Holy Spirit do the convicting of their sins. Bro John was a great man doing great things, but he was just a man as we are and one day in the future someone will write a book about our great evangelists and ‘discover’ that our favorites were human too.
Keep up the great work, Rev Jay
Daniel Zepeda on Mon, April 11, 2005
I really had a good time reading this post as it made me chuckle over the various interpretations and the inability of Todd to show humor. Holy Cronies awe man i’m still smiling over that one.
Pete King on Mon, April 11, 2005
Man have I missed a lot. Todd I didn’t know that you were such a comedian. A regular jack of all trades are you. Maybe you can come to my church and break up the manotony by gracing us with humorus material regarding our church founder. Or maybe we could have a debate between you and some of lesser lighthearted folks here. We could call it “John Wesley: was he the founder of the Methodist Church, successful evangelist, dedicated church leader or just another Holy Cronie?”
David Wilson on Mon, April 11, 2005
Well, I liked it. It doesn’t bother me at all to hear once again that great men of God were human beings. Just makes me appreciate what God did through them more.
Kurt on Mon, April 11, 2005
If I had read this post at a random blog I probably wouldn’t have thought much of it, but as it was linked to churchstaffing.com it seemed a bit unprofessional. As I read, I never thought, “Oh, this is supposed to be funny!”
Now Todd will have to run a “10 Things to hate about (fill in the name of some famous preacher from way back when) every week just to keep the Wesleyans from feeling picked on!
Justin Meier on Mon, April 11, 2005
Todd as a born methodist and one who even served in the Methodist pastorate, I enjoyed the article you found.
Maybe I’m strange, but I enjoy your humor and your ministry to those of us in the pastorate.
Wesely had a profound impact on our society and at least 13 denominations can trace their roots to Him (even though that may make him turn in his grave).
But as I have struggled over the past week with people in my ministry, your humor ministered to me.
So if you just reached one- I think you have done a job well done.
Pastor Justin
Todd on Mon, April 11, 2005
Let me re-phrase,
I didn’t think this post was ‘funny’ necessarily; but did take it more as a ‘light-hearted’ piece rather than a hard-news item.
There’s not anything truly funny here to me, other than the fact that people misread my intent.
Still smiling,
Todd
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