10 Things You’d Hate about John Wesley (and 10 Things He’d Hate About You!)
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Thu, May 17, 2007
- Viewed 405
- (58) comments so far
He rode 250,000 miles on horseback, preached 40,000 sermons, gave away ?30,000 and left behind 132,000 followers. A hero maybe, but is he someone better appreciated at a distance? You decide.
10 things you'd hate about John Wesley
1. Despotism ? Even Wesley's own preachers called him "Pope John". He ruled his followers like an enlightened despot, and his beloved brother Charles plotted to "break his power". John expected every Methodist society to follow his rules like a McDonalds franchise, and took personal charge over every member's private life, expelling them for laziness or selling spirits.
2. Superstition ? He saw rain storms as God's punishment on him - or the Devil's attack. He made decisions by opening the Bible at random for God's guidance, and even decided whether to marry by pulling bits of paper out of a hat.
3. Copyright ? Wesley was a plagiarist and pseudepigrapher - he passed other people's writings off as his own and his own as other people's. He got into trouble for ripping off an anti-American tract of Dr Johnson's. And he attacked a book by Toplady (of "Rock of Ages" fame) by publishing a cheap caricature of it at the same time under Toplady's name. Toplady denounced him as a common crook worthy of deportation to America.
4. Grief ? He didn't believe in it, as Christians should be happy when someone goes to heaven. "I believe the death of your children is a great instance of the goodness of God towards you," he told his sister. "You have often mentioned to me how much of your time they took up. Now that time is restored to you, and you have nothing to do but serve the Lord without carefulness and without distraction."
5. Drink ? He wasn't against alcohol, actually, unlike later Methodists. While he forbad spirits, he loved wine and beer, published home brewing tips and campaigned for real ale. He also allowed tobacco for medicinal purposes. But he discouraged Methodists from drinking tea, being a waste of time and money.
6. Charismania ? Wesley often reduced his hearers to ecstatic convulsions, screams and groans, fainting, beating the ground and uncontrollable laughter. He claimed exorcisms and healings, and once thought he might have raised the dead. You might like that kind of thing or you might not.
7. Narrowness ? After his evangelical conversion, he considered all non-evangelicals "almost Christians". Though one of the most devout believers alive before then, he had been "an heir of hell". In later years he mellowed a lot.
8. Women ? Despite great services to the role of women in church, even his greatest admirers admitted that Wesley had "an inexcusable weakness" for the prettily devout. Nothing sinister, but as a married man, his gushing and intimate letters to his circle of young female acolytes was neither good matrimony nor good pastoring. And his treatment of a quasi-fiancé ©n Georgia led to him jumping parole and fleeing the state at night.
9. Perfection ? Throughout his life, Wesley preached the thoroughly eccentric doctrine that Christians can be perfect, full of love and without sin. Later he came to see it as a miraculous sudden change, like salvation, though he was as surprised as anyone when Methodists started to claim it had happened.
10. Plain-speaking ? Wesley believed in the importance of pointing out others' errors and faults with utter candour. As "one of the greatest instances of friendship", he told an old friend whose only child was dying that she was the most spoiled he had ever seen, "Happy would it be for both her and you if God would speedily take her to himself!"
10 things John Wesley would hate about you
1. Money ? Wesley said that no true Christian kept any more than the basic "necessaries of life". He himself gave away up to ?1,400 a year, living on ?30, a worker's wage. Those who buy luxuries are "embezzling their Lord's goods, corrupting their own souls and robbing the poor".
2. Laughter ? Wesley did not much approve of laughter. He rebuked one of his preachers for being willing to "break a jest, and laugh at it heartily", and complained that even George Whitefield's conversation was "often mixed with needless laughter".
3. Laxity ? Wesley would be shocked by the lax standards of Christians today. He expected men and women to sit separately in church. To start a morning meeting after 5am was "giving place to the Devil". He expelled members for swearing and for playing football on Sunday.
4. Secular music ? Wesley didn't think Christians should listen to secular songs, and certainly not dance to them. One of his mining converts smashed up his fiddle when he became a Methodist. Wesley also had grave doubts about opera.
5. Clothes ? Wesley was very unhappy about Methodists wearing anything expensive, frilly or fashionable, and later regretted not prescribing a uniform for them. On the other hand, he insisted that they be as smart as possible: "Let none ever see a ragged Methodist". Just about the last nice thing he ever said to his wife was, "I still love you for your uncommon neatness."
6. Marriage ? Spouses are far too indulgent on each other for Wesley's liking. He told his travelling preachers that those with wives or families should keep going "as if they had none", just as he did himself. He told his wife that he was forbidden to "laugh or trifle a moment when with you". His theory of matrimony (expounded on a bad day, admittedly) was "You should have given me a carte blanche. You should have said, 'Bid me do anything, everything'."
7. Children ? Parents are far too indulgent on children too. In his Methodist school the timetable was from 4am to 8pm, with religious and physical exercises, including fasting, but no play: "He that plays when he is a child, shall play when he is a man". When he married, he planned to dump any children he had there permanently.
8. Foolishness during sleep ? If you've passed all Wesley's tests so far, do your hours of sleep also honour God sufficiently? "Is there no vanity or folly in your dreams? No temptation that almost overcomes you? And are you then as sensible of the presence of God and as full of prayer as when you are waking?"
9. Non-Methodism ? Wesley dismissed almost all other Christian groups. Non-Methodists in the Church of England he called 'almost Christians', non-conformist Protestant churches were in indefensible error and as for Catholics, "No Government ought to tolerate men of the Roman Catholic persuasion".
10. Methodism ? And finally, if you go to a Methodist church, you're definitely in trouble. Wesley insisted that all his followers always attend Anglican parish services, and never talk about having their own "ministers" or "churches". "When the Methodists leave the Church, God will leave them."
Steve Tomkins is the author of a new biography of John Wesley. He has written a fascinating piece on Wesley that I thought would be great to share here. You can read more at the Ship of Fools Website
Comments
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Kurt on Mon, April 11, 2005
Well, don’t worry Todd…it was nothing to lose sleep over. I probably would have written an intro to let people know that I was approaching the article with a light heart. That would have spared the confusion…but, hey some times the controversy is more fun!
Rich Viel on Mon, April 11, 2005
Todd,
I finally got around to reading your post today. The whole thing from the original article to all of the discussion struck me as funny. It was the perfect pick-me-up after a tough weekend of ministry. It reminded me that we all take ourselves too seriously at times and that was something I needed today.
Rob on Tue, April 12, 2005
Todd,
I loved this article! I am a fan of John Wesley’s but I think it shows how our culture has changed, how our attitudes on certain topics has changed(ie humor), and how even great men of God can be eccentric or odd.
This last point should actually be a point of encouragement for most of us. It shows us that God can still use us frail, broken, eccentric, strange, flawed humans in ministry. Despite our imperfections!
Greg Wilson on Tue, April 12, 2005
I just read this blog today and have three comments;
1. “me thinks thou dost protest too much”. Reminds me of many folks who say untimely things about others..“I was just kidding” is their response when called out.
2. WWJD. I would think that He would rather say good and uplifting things, than disparaging things. As Wesley was God’s servant, let’s leave it to him to judge His “Employee”, not bystanders.
3. I am reminded of so called “ministries” that spend all their(God’s) time and resources trying to destroy other peoples ministries, because they don’t agree with their theology. This is kind of a first cousin, in reality.
They say that in every “joke” there is a measure of truth, perceived or real.
PLease understand, I’m not scolding you, just observing.
Paul on Tue, April 12, 2005
Ok…now I know why I hate John Wesley http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
Gosh, I’m a Baptist and I thought we were sensitive and could carry on a good argument. My faith is renewed in my Baptist brethren. We are not alone. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Bob Cottrill on Tue, April 12, 2005
Wow - all I can say is that some people take themselves way, way too seriously.
Lighten up and learn to laugh folks! Methodism isn’t about to collapse under the weight of this article (but it staggers now and again from the sheer weight of its pomposity.)
It was a great article (although many of the posts were funnier than the original!)
Phil on Tue, April 12, 2005
I think all of this is especially humorous coming after the many church conflict resolution articles that have recently been posted here.
Hang in there Todd.
For those of us who enjoy irony, this just get’s better and better.
bernie dehler on Fri, April 15, 2005
How come all the complaints and defenses have nothing to do with the actual content? What exactly is being debated; intent? If there’s an issue, I’d like to see what the “exact text” is that is causing a problem. If a textual example can’t be supplied, then it’s not worth a response. Just my thoughts.
...Bernie
http://freegoodnews.blogspot.com
Steve Tomkins on Tue, April 19, 2005
Hello Todd
Just wanted to say thanks for posting the article (and commiserations for all the misunderstandings - Wesley, never far from controversy, would know how you feel). And that you are quite right about my intentions in it - to show how times have changed and how there is more to the man John Wesley than many of his admirers (and detractors) appreciate.
Anyone who has read the book will know that I am an ardent admirer of the real John Wesley, but if we cover over his failings and idiosyncrasies then we are only admirers of a fictional character, and what’s the point of that?
Mark on Thu, May 17, 2007
This is insane! This is what’s wrong with the church! Uptight, crotchety, cantankerous folks who take themselves (and their idealized histories) way too seriously! LIGHTEN UP! It bears repeating: LIGHTEN UP! Smile. Laugh. Find encouragement in the fact that God MIGHTILY used John Wesley in spite of the FACT that his theology was flawed almost as much as his personality. It’s encouraging because my theology and personality are flawed more deeply than his. I have every hope that Brother Wesley would have the humility to acknowledge this.
And if the article wasn’t amusing, the extreme irony found in the postings certainly is!
Ryan on Thu, May 17, 2007
I appreciated this article. As for Wesley’s behavior, I doubt anyone can find anything this strange in Calvin’s life.
Not that Wesley was a bad man, but he was no theologian either.
DanielR (a different Daniel) on Thu, May 17, 2007
Todd, I thought it was quite humorous. And as soon as I read the title I thought this would be another humorous, perhaps sarcastic post. Not for a second did I read it as a serious critique of Wesley. I think it is interesting how many people have idealized views of their heroes, while some have very negative opinions, an even personally dislike, the very same people of renown even though they personally know them not at all.
The recently passed Rev. Fallwell is a good example of this. He said and did a great many things people disagreed with, myself included, but almost everyone who got to know the man, even those on polar opposite sides of issues, came to like the man once they got to know him. Even while they continued to disagree and fight with him on issues, they liked and respected him.
After reading the article I think I probably would not have liked John Wesley and he probably would not have liked me, nor allowed me to remain in his church. And I’m OK with that because we do live in different times.
I was, however, wondering how this got to today’s posts when most the comments are dated well before today?
Brent H on Thu, May 17, 2007
Nothing on Calvin other than he had those who disagreed with him theologically arrested and tortured, and he provided evidence from personal letters in a trial that resulted in the death of someone for their beliefs.
This is not to attack Calvin, just to point out that we often make heros out of those who support our theological leanings, and don’t mind villifying those who are different. They were all human, they all messed up, and they lived in different times. Let’s lighten up and not use this post to declare we know FACTS about the flaws in someones theology or call them “no theologian” when in fact their theology has influenced many in a positive way for centuries.
shane on Thu, May 17, 2007
This is why I do not reply much on here, some of you need to lighten up!! I totally agree with Mark…..some of you need to LIGHTEN UP! This is one of the reasons the church is empty today, we attack each other when we disagree with someone! I tell our church all the time…..“Christians eat their own”, and some of you have proved that today.
I am not a Todd apologist, don’t know him, never met him, don’t always agree with him but could see what the purpose of the article was. Todd was simply pointing out some obscure beliefs/practices of JW, they were not attacks…...once again LIGHTEN UP.
Keep up the great work Todd.
Peter Hamm on Thu, May 17, 2007
I have about a million things you would all hate about me, but I’ll keep them to myself.
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
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