Divorce Isn’t That Big a Thing for Many Pastors These Days…
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, September 17, 2007
- Viewed 298
- (46) comments so far
“You don’t just run out on people,” said Gray, a divorcee who recently remarried. “You support them to the end. ... They’re great people, but we have to remember they’re human as well.”
Biblical scholars have long disagreed about divorce, with each side pointing to conflicting scriptural passages that seem to forbid or show compassion toward divorce. Most agree that the Bible allows for divorce in cases of adultery or violence, but agreement seems to end there.
Some conservatives call divorce a sin, saying it should disqualify pastors from preaching and offering services such as marital counseling. That stance harks to a time in some Christian denominations where clerics who divorced were removed from their pulpits and, in some cases, put out of churches.
But even the strictest of conservatives hold that such a lack of compassion is unnecessary in today’s church.
“Pastors have to be allowed to be human,” said Glenn Stanton, the director of research for family formation studies at Focus on the Family, a conservative Christian organization in Colorado. “But on issues of divorce, we stand with God with this in that he states very clearly in Malachi, ‘I hate divorce.’”
More liberal Christians hold that divorce no longer has the stigma it once did.
“As divorce has become more pervasive in our society, I think it’s less and less of a liability for a minister to have been divorced,” said John P. Bartkowski, a sociology professor at Mississippi State University who has studied divorce and Christianity. “Pastors are given, if not a complete pass, more leeway when there’s not an extramarital affair involved.”
The public’s softening stance on divorce may reflect the reality in the pews. A 2004 study by the Barna Group showed that the number of divorced Christians mirrors the rate of non-Christian divorcees.
Still, consensus on the issue of ministering after divorce remains afar off. Among conservative ministers, reaction to the White’s divorce has been mixed.
The Rev. T.L. Lowery, a longtime leader in the Church of God based in Cleveland, Tenn., who has served as a mentor to the Whites since the early days of their ministry, said their announcement grieves his heart. But he also said God provides forgiveness.
“While we do not support divorce, we still love Randy and Paula very deeply,” said Lowery in a statement. “We are committed to provide them with personal love and spiritual guidance according to the word of God and the direction of the Holy Spirit.”
Despite split views on ministering after divorce, separated clerics can look to several pastors who have been able to sustain and grow their ministries after their marriages ended. Some even are able to use the experience to connect with followers.
It’s a notion that White, who has long preached about her troubled childhood, and Bynum, who made a name for herself by offering her seemingly charmed Christian life as an example of redemption after being sexually promiscuous, might consider.
“They could say, ‘Look I’ve failed,’” Lummis said. “I’m going to be much more sensitive to what you’re going through and would be able to give you better advice than someone who’s been happily married.”
Other cases
Televangelists divorced, still ministering
At one time, divorce among clerics meant the instant demise of a pastoral career. But across denominational lines, the reaction toward clerical divorce seems to be softening.
Jim Bakker - Former head of PTL ministries. Marriage to Tammy Faye ended in 1992. Remarried.
John Hagee - Pastor of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio. First marriage ended in 1975. Remarried the next year.
Noel Jones - Pastor, City of Refuge Church near Los Angeles. Divorced in early 1990s. Single.
Clarence McClendon - Senior pastor of Full Harvest International Church, Southern California. Divorced wife of 16 years in 2000. Remarried.
Joyce Meyer - Leads Joyce Meyer Ministries. Divorced first husband in 1966. Remarried in 1967.
Robert A. Schuller - Senior pastor of the Crystal Cathedral Ministries in Southern California. Divorced in 1984. Remarried that same year.
Charles Stanley - Senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Atlanta. Marriage ended in 2000 after 44 years. Single.
Robert Tilton - Former head of the Word of Faith World Outreach Center Church. Twice divorced. Remarried.
Any Thoughts?
Hours after the Revs. Randy and Paula White announced their impending divorce last week, Christians began discussing how the evangelical power couple had come undone. It had, in fact, been a tough week for televangelist couples. The day before the White's revelation, Atlanta Bishop Thomas W. Weeks III alledgedly assaulted his estranged wife, evangelist Juanita Bynum, in a hotel parking lot. The couple had met to discuss reconciliation. But it turned violent when Weeks choked, kicked and threatened to kill his wife, police said. Both couples' histrionics - the Whites made their announcement from the pulpit of their Tampa church Aug. 23 - rocked the evangelical world and left many tongues wagging about the state of clerical marriage and the ability of divorced clerics to minister. In both relationships, each of the ministers had been divorced before. "The clergy is supposed to be setting an example for the other lay families," said Adair T. Lummis, a faculty associate at Hartford Seminary in Connecticut. "It looks strange to people." At Without Walls International Church, the Whites' megaministry, Randy White told members that he expected some in the congregation to leave because of their divorce. Indeed, a small exodus appears to have begun. But plenty of the church's 22,000 members say they will continue to support their pastors. "From my understanding, they've been through counseling for quite a long period of time, and if things don't work, they just don't work," said member Stewart Yoder, 45. "We have to forgive. ... My heart breaks, but God knows what is best." Patty Gray, a seven-year Without Walls member, says her support of the Whites won't waiver.
Comments
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Derek on Tue, September 18, 2007
Good exegesis Daniel D…
I have been preaching through 1 Cor and pornia is used a lot and you are right to say that it is more than adultery. Pornia could be stretched to include emotional affairs, porn addictions, etc.
I also think that you need to look at the spirit of the text in Matthew 19. It seems to me that when Jesus says “whoever divorces his wife, except for pornia, and marries another, commits adultery” he means that if you divorce your wife IN ORDER to marry another woman you commit adultery.
I don’t think every divorce person who divorces for reasons OTHER than pornia are adulterers. We had people in our church at one time who thought that and it caused some tension.
Also on the issue of violence, I think it is easy to endorse divorce. I think we need to look at the principle found in Jesus healing on the Sabbath. We cannot use the Scripture to oppress people like the Pharisees were doing.
I think it is a sin to tell a woman that she has to stay in a marriage with an abusive husband.
Derek
Peter Hamm on Tue, September 18, 2007
Daniel writes [Rather, ‘porneia’ should be understood as those ‘taboo’ sexual activities ...]
I have to disagree with the soundness of that exegesis, Daniel. I would think that if you consider the expanded semantic range of porneia (a potentially dangerous exegetical fallacy in most cases btw), that you would actually BROADEN what Jesus is saying here, rather than narrow it to something different from what quite a lot of very intelligent Bible Translation Committees have concluded.
After consulting BDAG and a commentary or two and looking at the greek text a little (I can only look a little… I am NOT a Greek scholar) I have to disagree with the conclusions of Yoder and Piper, intelligent and godly men though they be.
A word can mean many thinigs in many different cases, but it is rare the word that means many things at once in one particular context, and it is, in my experience, rare that our Contermporary Bible translators are this wrong (The more I learn Greek the more I am impressed by these modern translations). I have to go with the translation committees of NLT, NIV, ESV, NET, even KJV… I don’t think this is merely “deviant sexual activity” as you describe it. To me, it seems to be the broader “sexual immorality”, which may INCLUDE such activity, but certainly includes adultery as well.
That said, if a spouse is adulterous, I still think Jesus would want us to reconcile if possible… Sorry, we got off point, and I helped…
Derek on Tue, September 18, 2007
Exegetical fallacy…. oh this is good stuff…I enjoy a good exegetical exchange. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/grin.gif
I agree Peter that it is a fallacy to apply all the meanings of a word to a specific use of a word. To imply that a word in a single instance has two diverse meanings at once is the definition of a pun.
But in the case the word pornia does not have a variety of meanings as much as it means a variety of sexual acts. For example, the English word violence can means a variety of hurtful acts. While the word punched refers to a specific violent act.
So i think the point of Daniel’s exegesis is that pornia is itself a general term for sexual sin. I haven’t looked up all the translations, but I noticed that the ESV uses the general phrase “sexual immorality” for ponia.
I appreciate your comments….
Derek
Eric Joppa on Tue, September 18, 2007
I am loving your thoughts guys. I am learning a ton from your discussion.
Peter, I agree that even when there is adutery, that reconciliation is God’s top priority.
Thanks for the comments and thoughts!
-E
ministerkareem on Tue, September 18, 2007
reconciliation is the Christian top priority. The Bible instructs us to reconcile our differences before we could even brng Him an offering or partake of communion. How could we love God whom we don’t see but hate our brothern who wee see?
lets look at Hosea who was married to an adulterous wife, God commanded him to stay married to her unto death do you part. The strong are to bare the infirmities of the weak.
caution should be made when you include looking as a reason for divorce. let the truth be told if that’s the case, then all of us wouldn’t be married because we all have looked or fantacised about another person that’s not our spouse.
I highly encourage all who’s marraige is on the rocks to seek Christian counseling. many pastors aren’t trained in this area and as a result a lot of errors are made and many couples spit becasue of ingnorance.
there’s always two sides to every story. and one would only find out the truth when you have both sides together.
a man could be married to a women who doesn’t please him sexually or have sex with him as frequent as he wants. this could be labeled as sexaual immaturity. this doesn’t give the man licesnse to file for divorce… (just an example)
as Christians we are called to stand the trails of life…
seek Christian counseling by trained specialists…
marraige is to deat do us part…
not unto, difference do us part…
Derek on Tue, September 18, 2007
Yep…we must always proclaim marriage as a lifetime covenant. And if there is problems reconciliation is the answer.
Divorce is always the last resort.
Is fantasizing about a member of the opposite sex sin? Jesus said it was. Is it a part of pornia? Yeah, I think it is. Is it a reason to get divorced? Probably not. If people are looking for a reason to get divorced, they have a problem already. I don’t think we should be looking for a way out.
As I side note, I think Hosea had it tough because his wife was a prostitute and her name was Gomer! I don’t think I could get pass the name… http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/grin.gif
Derek
revolutionfl on Wed, September 19, 2007
The divorced part isn’t the part that bothers me. It’s the “still ministering” part that irks me. I love it when a pastor’s calling trumps all else, including scripture.
I’m amazed at their inability to walk away, not only for their sake, but for the sake of others.
I guess they’re too tied to their pride and their paycheck.
REVOLUTION
Daniel D. Farmer on Wed, September 19, 2007
Sorry for the switcheroo on the naming, I’m just the plain old Daniel from every other thread using a different computer from the one I used to (the longer name is only fair to DanielR—the ‘different Daniel’...).
Briefly, the Piper/Yoder argument is that porneia for Matthew in this context is most likely intended in a restricted sense, much narrower than ‘adultery’. The argument (I don’t know Greek, so I’m just trusting their judgment) is that Matthew has in mind something like Herod’s incestuous marriage (recall John the Baptizer calling him out on the same thing).
And so I totally disagree with you Derek, when you say “I think it is a sin to tell a woman that she has to stay in a marriage with an abusive husband.”
The better, more faithful solution (pending pastorally sensitive discernment) would be to get out of the house, but to pray for the husband’s repentance. Have the wife go live with her parents until the husband has gone through a rehab program. Or better, have the wife’s brother move in with them so that he can protect her if necessary.
See how fast our minds move to divorce? Jesus’ point is to directly contradict all our ‘common sense’ intuitions about this issue. Which is why his disciples freak out and say “better then not to be married!!”
I’ve abstracted out concrete pastoral implications (which might, perhaps, in rare circumstances barely allow for something like remarriage) from these posts because our primary task is to hear Jesus’ words. Notice also that none of the other gospel’s have anything like an ‘exception clause’ (and Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 7 are equally strict)…
Stuff to think about…
Cheers,
-Daniel-
Peter Hamm on Thu, September 20, 2007
I only know enought Greek to look stuff up (words AND grammar) and get in trouble, but I still maintain that when somebody comes up with a “new” interpretation, it is immediately suspect. This one ends up not being supported by my bookshelf, so I don’t buy it…
Derek on Thu, September 20, 2007
Danny D—
I agree that the first step for a woman who is being abused is to get her out of the house and pray/seek for the repentance of her husband, but if he will not repent then what? I always encourage couples to fight for their marriage, live separate if they have to…even get legally separated, but what if the abusive husband will not repent?
I guess my issue is that I would say that divorce is still on the table. Some pastor would still tell a woman getting smacked around by her husband that she cannot every divorce him. I would disagree. Jesus issue with healing on the sabbath is that you cannot use the word of God to oppress people, or conversely, you cannot use the word of God to withhold goodness from someone.
It is certainly a case-by-case issue that requires patience and discernment.
Derek
ministerkareem on Thu, September 20, 2007
Jesus healing on the Sabbath isn’t relevant to marraige and divorce. If you’re going to go that route then you’ll cancel out the law of Moses and the ministry of Jesus Christ.
You must keep in mind, Jesus upheld the law not broke it…
Jesus being the Son of God cannot break covenants, (He cannot go back on His Word.) Marraige is a covenant between two individuals before God.
Yes, repentence for any sin is to be sought by Christians. Who are we to judge or say who did or who didn’t repent?
on marraige counseling:
How many pastors are trained in marraige counseling, anger management and family abuse?
I believe its essential for pastors to be properly trained in these area.
divorce is a excuse out in many cases. Jesus nor the Apostles never advocated divorce…
Paul encourages everybody to work out their soul salvation. what this means, is for everybody to work out their personal differences between one another.
marraige according to the teachings of God’s Word is marraige for life. In Christian marraige a man and a women are joined to each other as a Christian is joined to the Lord Jesus Christ, and the relationship in each case is permanent-the one for this life, the other for this life and for eternity.
marraige is of God; and hence, men are not to destroy it. The union that makes a man adn a women one flesh is to be permanent throughout both of their lives.
The biblical standard is clearly chasity before marraige and fidelity afterwards.
lets examine what Jesus was talking about when he used the word “adultery.” (Matthew 19) Jesus was teaching that the only justifiable grounds for divorce was impurity in the women discovered on the first night of the marraige (in which case there would be deceit involved in the contract) and even in this case, although the man had the right to an immediate divorce under the standards of the Mosaic law, God’s perfect will would always be for a continuation of the marraige.
Derek on Thu, September 20, 2007
mk
Jesus healing on the Sabbath has to do with how we interpret and apply the Scripture…that was my point.
Jesus was breaking the Mosiac law according to the Pharisees when he healed on the Sabbath. They held to the letter of the law and not the spirit and accused Jesus of being a law-breaker.
Jesus can consent to the breaking of the marriage covenant, specifically if pornia is involved.
I can judge if a wife-beater has repented. The question would be—Is he still beating his wife?
Most pastors are not trained for marriage counseling. I tell couples that as a pastor I am a marriage coach, if they need long-term counseling I send them to a professional.
Marriage is for life; divorce is always a last option.
You will have to read my above comments on Matthew 19, but Jesus says divorce is permissible in cases of pornia, meaning sexual immorality—a variety of sexual sins.
Derek
Andy on Mon, September 24, 2007
In the midst of my divorce, God lead me to review what His Word says about the subject. I found a VERY interesting passage in Jeremiah 3. God is brokenhearted over losing Israel’s love and in verse 8 says this: “I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.”
I sensed that God comforted me with the knowledge that the reason “God hates divorce” is because He Himself is a divorcee.
Pastor Bill on Mon, September 24, 2007
Having been divorced (my “x” was the one who had an adulterous affair - as did my present wife’s [of 29years] spouse [with a child to boot!] ) and as you surmized we are married and in ministry (and Charasmatic too - ). I have come to the conclusion divorce is the only unpardonable sin [besides blaspheming the Holy Ghost]. BUT…... as corrupt as our flesh is….and ‘in the closet’ where there are many sins; who are we to cast stones when we read of those who will not gain Heaven (Revelation 22;15). Give it a thought…............ on Denominational theology…how many watch the trash on TV or go to movies (any movies), or as Jesus put it sin in our heart (Matthew 5:28 - and allow me to take the liberty to expand that to possessions, accomplishments, etc).
Yes reconciliation is most important, but if one refuses to reconcile, then what…. Not supporting Divorce for many, is a cop-out and there are a heap load of underlying circumstances (abuse, assult, drug dependence, etc) and we are to minister and support those who are not famous or infamous. I will agree with the statements on how can one effectively minister if they are divorced and what kind of eample are they setting, but on the other side, to what advantage would one who has been there gain. We interview “X” drug addicts, “X” hookers, “X” murderes, “X” etc’s, and they are in ministry and we raise them up, read their books, watch their movies….
Yes Jesus was pure in heart - for He IS God and Man and was different than us even when He was in the world! We can only pray that those who are not obedient to His Will, will have the Holy Ghost convicition to step down and become a pew warmer….. for why should anyone with such a serious sin even minister in the church - even wash the floors and clean the toilets!!!
ministerkareem on Mon, September 24, 2007
Pastor Bill,
you’re walking on thin ice adding to the Word of God. We can’t read into it but read from it. That is, we can’t put our personal views and thoughts on what God has already said in His Word. The Bible is complete… God tells us to love our wives even as He loves the church. This love is not based upon personal emotions or circumstances. Christ loves the church even in our adulterous ways. divorce is a cop-out and should be avoided.
The people in Moses and Jesus days were looking for reasons to get a divorce. And Jesus set the record straight. The only time a man could divorce his wife is when she has lied about her virginity. (That’s on the wedding night…) everything thereafter is to death do us part…
my question to you pastor Bill,
were you a virgin when you married your first wife, I know you weren’t when you married your second wife? If you answered no to my question, then according to Biblical customs, you committed adultery as well by not being a virgin….
Divorce is not an option….
we are to have that agape love towards our spouse…Love when love doesn’t love you back. Love in spite of…
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