The $3.65 MillionParsonage: “God Has Blessed Us”
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, April 02, 2007
- Viewed 71
- (35) comments so far
“I also have faith in God, but I don’t expect to live in such opulence,” said Evgenia Asimakis, a single mother of two who lives nearby and has trouble paying her property taxes.
Her neighbor, Gary Wall, is blunter: “You don’t need a multimillion-dollar place to see God. He’ll take a lot less.”
Detroit World Outreach Church isn’t apologizing. In fact, members say the mansion is proof God has blessed them.
The 4,000-member church is part of a growing movement that preaches prosperity. Also known as “health and wealth” theology, the ideology preaches that God wants followers to do well, be healthy and have rewards—such as the $50,000 Cadillac Escalade the church bought the Giberts, who have four children.
Ben Gibert said God surrounds the faithful with beautiful things.
One of the leaders of his church agrees. “God’s empowerment is to make you have an abundant life,” said Elder Marvin Wilder, a lawyer and general counsel for the church.
“In this country we value rock stars, movie stars and athletes. They can have a lavish lifestyle, and a pastor who restores lives that were broken shouldn’t? When our value system elevates a man who can put a ball in a hole and not a man who does God’s work, something is wrong.”
Born in the 1950s, prosperity theology has a strong following among some fundamentalist and nondenominational churches. It’s gained popularity among mega-church ministries of such well-known national pastors as Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes and Pat Robertson.
Even so, most Christian denominations disparage the belief as consumerism run amok, said David G. Myers, professor of psychology at Hope College in Holland who has written about the movement.
“Are people really any happier for that sort of self-indulgent spending? The answer is clearly no,” Myers said.
Wilder said the four-bedroom mansion “isn’t flamboyant” and is compensation for Ben Gibert leaving his job as a high-paying automotive executive with DaimlerChrysler’s minivan division after the sudden death in 2005 of church founder Bishop Jack Cameron Wallace.
Wallace dropped dead in Zimbabwe doing what Wilder said was the church’s work. Wallace, 47, was an accomplished weight lifter and co-founder of Prosperity Nutrition Inc., which sold performance enhancement supplements, such as creatine, online.
Wilder said Gibert saved the church whose membership, once at 10,000, had fallen by more than half. Its services still are carried on a host of television channels throughout the Midwest.
“We know that it will cost the township some tax revenue, but every church in the state gets property tax exemption,” Wilder said. “Having a parsonage is a historical precedent. Ours happens to be worth $3.6 million.”
The mansion sits on 12 acres and behind a quarter-mile-long driveway and a tall, electronically controlled gate. That’s necessary because the church has spoken out against homosexuality and Islamic violence, Wilder said. Wallace once had a live bullet delivered in the offering plate, Wilder said.
For Discussion: Is a $4 million dollar parsonage ever justified? If so, when? Do we make too big of a deal about the money? How much is too much?
A Redford Township church that believes wealth is God's reward is raising eyebrows for buying its pastor a $3.65 million mansion and taking it off the tax rolls. This month, township officials grudgingly conceded they had no choice but to remove the 11,000-square-foot home overlooking Maybury State Park from its assessment rolls, losing $40,000 annually in taxes. They concluded the plush pad is a parsonage, but that hasn't quelled debate among township officials and neighbors about whether Christian charity extends to the Detroit World Outreach Church's purchase in September of the home for Pastor Ben Gibert and his wife and co-pastor, Charisse Gibert.
Comments
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Daniel Hillard on Mon, April 02, 2007
I agree with the premise by Wilder about the affluence of athletes. I disagree with the conclusion buy the preacher a mansion equal to that of sports stars. If they are worried about death threats, this did not work, now everyone in the world knows where the pastor lives. This was the wrong way to spend the church’s money. I am not saying that because I am in full-time ministry and do not live in a 3.65 million dollar parsonage.
Phil DiLernia on Mon, April 02, 2007
Respect the pastor ... yes.
If able to, pay the pastor and his family a wage that they can live comfortably on ... yes.
If able to, and the pastor deserves it based on His ministry, pay him more than the average pastor ... certainly.
Genorisity is a great thing ... BUT ...
The church’s comments are disturbing. They want their pastor to be viewed by the world in the same “glory” as rock stars and athletes? They want their pastor to receive and authenticate his “love” from the congregation via an extravagent financial package? I always try to avoid saying that someone elses thinking is letting the “world” or “Satan” into the church. I abhore that thinking and argument style when having disagreements ... but in this case I must make an exception.
This is against everything that Jesus said, did, lived for, and died for. It flies in the face of the lifestyle of the Apostles.
Money is not evil. Big money is not evil. Considering and valuing money in the same way as the world does is evil. I’m apologize for my bluntness but this is very disturbing and their own response at the church reveals the poverty of their thinking.
S. K. Johnson on Mon, April 02, 2007
Utterly appalling. Perhaps the pastors should consider a vow of poverty.
Pastor Edd of BareNakedChurch.com on Mon, April 02, 2007
I’m reminded of an encounter Jesus has with a young rich dude that inquired what would it take to follow Him. Jesus said sell out, give your junk away to help those with the most need, then come hang out with Me and the boys (my paraphrase). As you know, the guy left totally bummed out. Jesus did not once say, “Glad you’re here, we’re going to use your wealth to build me a parsonage to show our community that if they follow Me, they too can have wealth and health.” Oh, by the way, Jesus really said that if you follow Him, you will hurt… a lot (just look at how the disciples lived and died… and these guys were His closest friends). Thanks friend.
At The Church At The Pen, we are starting churches in prisons. It will cost $15,000 for the one we are currently starting. But, we can use the same equipment to start 2 more. If we had the money that Gilbert is spending to purchase his “parsonage,” we could start 730 prison churches. We are also planting self-supporting churches in India. We fund a small business started by the pastor that in turn will fund the church and support the pastor. We have trained pastors waiting for funding. It only costs $900 to plant one of these churches. With Gilbert’s “parsonage” money we could plant 4,065 churches. I wonder what would make Our Lord more thrilled, starting 4,000+ new churches or building a parsonage for one pastor? Ben, you will weep when you are at the feet of Jesus and see what could have been accomplished with the resources He trusted you to manage.
As for the need for security. Pray harder Ben. That’s what I do every week when I go to church behind chain link fence, razor wire, and heavy steel doors.
Peace… Pastor Edd / The Church At The Pen / BareNakedChurch.com
Pastor Edd of BareNakedChurch.com on Mon, April 02, 2007
Another day, a man stopped Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” Jesus said, “Why do you question me about what’s good? God is the One who is good. If you want to enter the life of God, just do what he tells you.”
The man asked, “What in particular?” Jesus said, “Don’t murder, don’t commit adultery, don’t steal, don’t lie, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as you do yourself.”
The young man said, “I’ve done all that. What’s left?”
“If you want to give it all you’ve got,” Jesus replied, “go sell your possessions; give everything to the poor. All your wealth will then be in heaven. Then come follow me.”
That was the last thing the young man expected to hear. And so, crest-fallen, he walked away. He was holding on tight to a lot of things, and he couldn’t bear to let go.
As he watched him go, Jesus told his disciples, “Do you have any idea how difficult it is for the rich to enter God’s kingdom? Let me tell you, it’s easier to gallop a camel through a needle’s eye than for the rich to enter God’s kingdom.”
The disciples were staggered. “Then who has any chance at all?”
Jesus looked hard at them and said, “No chance at all if you think you can pull it off yourself. Every chance in the world if you trust God to do it.”
Then Peter chimed in, “We left everything and followed you. What do we get out of it?”
Jesus replied, “Yes, you have followed me. In the re-creation of the world, when the Son of Man will rule gloriously, you who have followed me will also rule, starting with the twelve tribes of Israel. And not only you, but anyone who sacrifices home, family, fields—whatever—because of me will get it all back a hundred times over, not to mention the considerable bonus of eternal life. This is the Great Reversal: many of the first ending up last, and the last first.”
Matthew 19:16-30 / The Message
Jim in NJ on Mon, April 02, 2007
Thank you Pastor Edd. That says it all. These “Christians” do more harm than they know. I have an easier time understanding an atheist or an agnostic than I do people who believe what this is saying. Abuses like this do make me angry and sad, but I will leave the final judgement to the lamb.
sushil_yadav on Mon, April 02, 2007
Respected Todd Rhoades,
You have written about the 3.65 million dollar mansion, Money, Consumerism and Happiness in your post. We are living in a world where Consumerism has influenced everything - Personal Lives, Culture, Religion, Faith, Spirituality, Environment and Ecology. In this context I want to post a part from my article which examines the impact of consumerism and industrialization on our minds and environment. Please read.
The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.
The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.
Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.
If there are no gaps there is no emotion.
Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.
When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.
There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.
People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.
Emotion ends.
Man becomes machine.
A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.
A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.
A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.
Fast visuals/ words make slow emotions extinct.
Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys emotional circuits.
A fast (large) society cannot feel pain / remorse / empathy.
A fast (large) society will always be cruel to Animals/ Trees/ Air/ Water/ Land and to Itself.
To read the complete article please follow any of these links :
<a href=http://www.planetsave.com/ps_mambo/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&Itemid=75&func=view&id=68&catid=6>PlanetSave</a>
<a href=http://www.ephilosopher.com/bb-topic-244.html>ePhilosopher</a>
sushil_yadav
don on Mon, April 02, 2007
Edd,
Wow! YOUR ministry is doing some pretty incredible things, you seem to enjoy your piety (so does Jim)
I have a suggestion YOU believe God for 3.65 million and build churches and outreaches and continue to do what God has told you to do. You are sounding somewhat like Judas (not in character i am sure) when the lady broke the alabaster box ( Matt. 26:7) and anointed Jesus. I am not saying that this church with the big house is Jesus, but what I am saying is that you are judging how another ministry is spending their money and that is silly and unproductive (kinda like blogs) hahahahahahahaha
I look forward to hearing your response
GR guy on Mon, April 02, 2007
Have no problem with Christians having lots of money. Don’t even have a problem with this church buying a nice house for their pastor. DO have a problem with their wealth theology. Money has a purpose. It is a tool to a larger goal. But when money becomes a distraction to the gospel, then it’s better left behind. Just because we can doesn’t mean we should. Paul is clear about that in his writings to the Corinthians.
Scott McMurrian on Mon, April 02, 2007
Let me see if I can summarize the comments. . . If I had what they had, here’s what I could do.
Rod Gauthier on Mon, April 02, 2007
Wow, I don’t know where to begin. Whether we judge because we don’t have or whether we condemn because it is contrary to our understanding of scripture, is something i will leave to others. I do have a problem with this church spending 3.65 mil on a house for its pastor, and that isn’t to say he is not worth that much. When I consider words from Jesus like “Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?” (Matt 6:25b-26) We start chasing rabbit trails when we focus on the things of ministry instead of the why of ministry. I know that i don’t need a 3.6 million dollar house for my family of 5, my present house is meeting the needs just fine. I don’t need a caddy to ride in, my minivan works well. The point is what we need is often far different then what we want. And God knows both. Paul told us to be content whether it is with plenty or in need, these words kind of echoes Jesus words doesn’t it? As a pastor of a small church i am often tempted to compare myself to others, that is usually the time i take my eyes of what God has provided for me. I am grateful to God for his blessings, for it is more then many others have. Would I like more? Sure, but at what cost? I will enjoy God’s blessings now and be content with what He brings to me today and tomorrow. As pastors we serve him not for the monetary things, but for the call that He has placed on our lives. Fulfilling that call brings much greater rewards then a 3.6 mil house. The why of ministry is that God has called us, He will supply our needs out of his riches.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Brandon on Mon, April 02, 2007
OK…I’ll admit…this church may have gone “overboard” when it comes to honoring their pastor with compensation. The key is that churches need to have balance. They don’t need to be paying 3.6 million dollars for a parsonage for their pastor—but that’s not the problem that the average church faces. The vast majority of churches in America DON’T pay their pastor what he should be paid (even though the church can reasonably afford it in their budget). But we don’t hear anyone outraged by that, now do we?
Let’s face it. This guy with the big mansion is not a representation of the majority of pastors. Most pastors are underpaid. They did not take a vow of poverty. Few have personnel committees who are geared to being their advocate in terms of salary, study leave, bonuses, vacations, remembering important anniversaries, or finding ways to affirm the spouses of whom 25 percent claim the their husband’s job is a major source of family conflict. 58 percent of pastors indicate that their spouse needs to work either part-time or full-time to supplement the family income.
1 Timothy 5:17-18 says that those pastors who “direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor…the worker deserves his wages.” That’s what churches need to be concerned about.
nora on Mon, April 02, 2007
I think one of the more important things to consider in this particular case is how this looks to the community at large. Answer: not good. When churches and pastors are getting a property tax exemption for a 3.6 million dollar house because they are part of a “non-profit organization”, that causes many to scratch their heads and go, “huh?” Once again, the church is viewed as being out to “get people’s money”. Without commenting on the perverse (okay, that was a comment) prosperity theology being promoted here, if this church wanted to “live peaceably with all men,” they might want to consider donating some of the many thousands that they have to spare to the local township to help make up for the tax exemption that they’re exploiting, and promote goodwill and harmony within the community.
Jim in NJ on Mon, April 02, 2007
Thank you, Nora. I believe you made the point that I did not. Of course, this church can do what it wants with its money. But actions such as this reinforce ( and understandably so) the beliefs of many non-Christians that most Christian churches are out after your money. Of course you should pay your pastors a liveable wage in decent housing with good benefits and the time off needed for study and refreshment. This goes way beyond that. Of course some in the early church could eat meat sacrificed to idols, but Paul urged them not to do it if it caused another brother to stumble.
don - I don’t think it is jealousy to criticize what this church has done. Your mocking tone toward Pastor Edd is definitely not called for. If he is doing what he says, then he is doing far more for the Kingdom than any number of pastoral mansions.
don on Mon, April 02, 2007
Jim,
I knew you could’nt leave it alone
I don’t recall using the word jealous either anyway I was just making an observation and statement If my tone sounded inappropiate I apologize to Edd. It looks to me Scott is accurate in his summary
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